SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Hate to bring down the slightly positive mood caused by Moderna, but this is a pretty good article on the logistical issues at play when / if a vaccine can reach the needed production levels...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/milit...ccine-rollout-problems-in-texas-and-elsewhere
It's a massive project. The cost and logistical issues of distribution are huge, and it's part of why being first to announce is only a part of the story.

Vaccines with simpler storage requirements (a fridge!) will be needed. A vaccine that works with a single shot (rather than two doses three weeks apart) will be a big deal. And that's before you even look at issues like suitablity across age/comorbidity groups, and price.

Manufacturing, in the short term, isn't a minor issue either. Even big companies like Pfizer are hunting for the right kind of manufacturing capacity.

Smaller companies like Novavax (which has a vaccine at Phase 3) are trying to set up manufacturing deals globally, but meanwhile they've struggled even to get contract manufacturing capacity for their expansion of Phase 3 trials.

That's also a reminder of how these vaccines are cutting the development time. Normally a small company like Novavax would have a much smaller Phase 3 study group running for much longer to get enough cases to check for efficacy. Only then would they go looking for more money (and manufacturing capacity) to increase the number of Phase 3 test subjects.

Incidentally, completing the loop, Novavax may well end up doing a deal with Pfizer. While Pfizer create/expand their mRNA capacity, their older conventional vaccine units may start producing the Novavax vaccine. All very normal stuff in the industry but with arrangements and negotiations taking place over a few weeks, rather than the many months (or even years) that it would normally take.
 
Sending all the best to everyone who's tested positive - seems like we have more and more people on here who are being affected.
 
Cases rising again in Ireland the last five or six days, after it looked like our latest lockdown was succeeding in squashing the spread. Very uncertain on what policy will be heading into Christmas. Very hard to see pubs opening in any capacity.
Surely at this stage they should just open the pubs that can handle social distancing? I mean already we've seen huge problems with massive drinking sessions at houses/dorms and now all over the streets in the city at the weekend. We're a country where drinking is probably the biggest part of our fecking stupid culture, people will find a way to gather and get pissed, may as well do it in a controlled environment.

I can only imagine the shitshow at Christmas if the pubs are still closed.
 
Sending all the best to everyone who's tested positive - seems like we have more and more people on here who are being affected.
I was just thinking the same thing, I live in a small rural town, and thankfully we have been extremely lucky with very low numbers, so its all been a little distant with regards to my day to day life. Having people who you know (kind of, on here anyway) get it brings it home in quite a sudden way.

Good luck to @Eboue and everyone else, Ill be thinking of you all
 
My school has just shut for 2 weeks. Too many staff testing positive and a couple of kids too. Was just left with me and another class, didn’t seem worth keeping it open.
 
Ah come on, whatever way you look at it, he’s personally made an obscene amount of money akin to a football agent transferring a top footballer. It’s a shocking misuse of public funds
Nothing unusual. Guy lives near me has been raking it in since March. Lives in the millionaire row
 
So should he be working for free then? End of the day we wouldn’t have PPE if it wasn’t for his services. Left wing Caf at it again.

Maths isn't my strong point but I think there are numbers between 0 and 21,000,000
 
It depends on how involved he was and what the whole deal was worth..
If he was directly responsible for supplying kits that cost about a billion, a 2% fee isnt crazy.

if he didnt do that much or if the whole deal was 100m, then it sounds insane.
 
It depends on how involved he was and what the whole deal was worth..
If he was directly responsible for supplying kits that cost about a billion, a 2% fee isnt crazy.

if he didnt do that much or if the whole deal was 100m, then it sounds insane.

This is what I'm thinking. We also need to think of the risks he has taken. He may be taking the complete risk with the PPE manufacturer, say if the NHS cancels the order. It is often the case with agents to work this way.

It is no where near like Football Agent fees.

Also how much was this profit? It's a shite news article used to trigger the public.
 
This is what I'm thinking. We also need to think of the risks he has taken. He may be taking the complete risk with the PPE manufacturer, say if the NHS cancels the order. It is often the case with agents to work this way.

It is no where near like Football Agent fees.

Also how much was this profit? It's a shite news article used to trigger the public.

Give over. There were a litany of PPE providers that could have supplied kit and couldn’t get anywhere near the procurement process.

It’s corruption.

It’s like you don’t appreciate how much £21 MILLION is. £250,000 would be an unfathomable fee for a middle man supplying cheap disposables in a 9 month period.

There’s no possible world that a middle man is a high 6 digit value add in a contract moving disposables from China to the UK. 7 digits would be negligent. 8 is corruption.
 
So should he be working for free then? End of the day we wouldn’t have PPE if it wasn’t for his services. Left wing Caf at it again.

Ah come on, whatever way you look at it, he’s personally made an obscene amount of money akin to a football agent transferring a top footballer. It’s a shocking misuse of public funds

I have less of an issue with this than with Tory party donors getting funnelled post of public cash for previously non-existent businesses. Whatever the moral implications, he appears to have cashed in on his ability to access Chinese supply chains which I suspect every government in the world was trying to access.

The fee is only ridiculous if the same kit could have been sourced successfully elsewhere for significantly less. Otherwise it's just the market rate.

If the government had two choices - pay him and get the kit, or don't and see it go elsewhere it seems they can't win.
 
I have less of an issue with this than with Tory party donors getting funnelled post of public cash for previously non-existent businesses. Whatever the moral implications, he appears to have cashed in on his ability to access Chinese supply chains which I suspect every government in the world was trying to access.

The fee is only ridiculous if the same kit could have been sourced successfully elsewhere for significantly less. Otherwise it's just the market rate.

If the government had two choices - pay him and get the kit, or don't and see it go elsewhere it seems they can't win.

Not an attack On you, but this is insanely naive.

A Spanish guy in Florida that trades in jewellery, has better access to latex glove and surgical gown suppliers, than the UK Government?

Think about what you’re saying. One inexperienced jeweller in America, has £21 million pounds worth of ability to buy latest gloves and plastic gowns.

If not corruption, then ineptitude. There is no third option.
 
How have China got less than 5k deaths through Covid? Am I looking at the wrong information?
 
Give over. There were a litany of PPE providers that could have supplied kit and couldn’t get anywhere near the procurement process.

It’s corruption.

It’s like you don’t appreciate how much £21 MILLION is. £250,000 would be an unfathomable fee for a middle man supplying cheap disposables in a 9 month period.

There’s no possible world that a middle man is a high 6 digit value add in a contract moving disposables from China to the UK. 7 digits would be negligent. 8 is corruption.

Not that I'm defending the process, the ethics, or the government. here, but £21m isn't a lot when you consider the volumes that is being purchased. 3.4 billion items have been delivered from March to September. If he owned relationships with factories contractually, and they have supply, the government have little choice but to go through the party (it's not uncommon in Far East sourcing to go through agents to factories).

It was a sellers market as well, so you're dictated by the market price, the market certainly didn't have a litany of providers that could deliver volume/scale that the Far East could unfortunately.
 
appreciate the well wishes except for nimic. feck to socdem dogs.

on day 8 now and actually feel better than i did yesterday. cautiously optimistic.
I'm a well wisher, in that I don't wish you any specific harm.

Get well, mate. Glad to see you're getting better.
 
How have China got less than 5k deaths through Covid? Am I looking at the wrong information?
Wrong if you mean 'truthful'. Right if you mean 'official'.

Those two things don't necessarily coincide when it comes to matters of saving face for the CCP.
 
How have China got less than 5k deaths through Covid? Am I looking at the wrong information?
Probably a mixture of 2 things, under reporting of deaths but also an oppressive govt that imposed extremely strict lockdown measures early on meant they got the virus under control and the moment they have outbreaks they jump on them hard. Mandatory mask wearing and high testing numbers with a compliant/controlled population. To be honest I wouldnt be surprised if their numbers were not far off accurate given how much control their govt has and how hard they went early on.
 
I have less of an issue with this than with Tory party donors getting funnelled post of public cash for previously non-existent businesses. Whatever the moral implications, he appears to have cashed in on his ability to access Chinese supply chains which I suspect every government in the world was trying to access.

The fee is only ridiculous if the same kit could have been sourced successfully elsewhere for significantly less. Otherwise it's just the market rate.

If the government had two choices - pay him and get the kit, or don't and see it go elsewhere it seems they can't win.
Come on, are you telling me the U.K. couldn’t get another middleman to get/source PPE for less than 20m consultant fee? What kind of world do you live in. It’s not acceptable. I wouldn’t be surprised that it comes out in the wash that he’s connected to someone in the Tory party.
 
Not that I'm defending the process, the ethics, or the government. here, but £21m isn't a lot when you consider the volumes that is being purchased. 3.4 billion items have been delivered from March to September. If he owned relationships with factories contractually, and they have supply, the government have little choice but to go through the party (it's not uncommon in Far East sourcing to go through agents to factories).

It was a sellers market as well, so you're dictated by the market price, the market certainly didn't have a litany of providers that could deliver volume/scale that the Far East could unfortunately.
They’ve basically bought it via a scalper than trying to get it themselves
 
731 deaths in Italy today.. Highest in months.. right up there with the first peak..

How bad are things there?
 
Not that I'm defending the process, the ethics, or the government. here, but £21m isn't a lot when you consider the volumes that is being purchased. 3.4 billion items have been delivered from March to September. If he owned relationships with factories contractually, and they have supply, the government have little choice but to go through the party (it's not uncommon in Far East sourcing to go through agents to factories).

It was a sellers market as well, so you're dictated by the market price, the market certainly didn't have a litany of providers that could deliver volume/scale that the Far East could unfortunately.

No. Those numbers do not stack.

You are suggesting that a jeweller in Florida, has better procurement routes than the NHS.

If he has connections that see his involvement be worth £21m, from a standing start, he should have been the head of NHS Procurement.

It’s corruption. Or ineptitude.

I do appreciate the fact that it all turned into the Wild West. But this is not a ‘Smile and Wave’ moment.

At the very least this should see an MP, in the house, explaining. An apology for wasting public funds through panic. Fcuk, I’d forgive that. I paid £80 for 5 PP3/N95 masks so my family members could have one.

But this shit can’t just coast by with the public just nodding.

Latex gloves. Plastic gowns. £21m admin fee.
 
They’ve basically bought it via a scalper than trying to get it themselves

If the factories have contracts with their agents, then there is no bypassing them, government or not. It's not like you can go into the Far East yourself and navigate procurement for the billions of items needed in a short two week period either. Especially in a situation where the market wasn't short of buyers for those particular products.

I'm not defending the process, but you don't turn up with a shopping list to asian factories like it's a pick & mix choice in a sweet shop.
 
Give over. There were a litany of PPE providers that could have supplied kit and couldn’t get anywhere near the procurement process.

It’s corruption.

It’s like you don’t appreciate how much £21 MILLION is. £250,000 would be an unfathomable fee for a middle man supplying cheap disposables in a 9 month period.

There’s no possible world that a middle man is a high 6 digit value add in a contract moving disposables from China to the UK. 7 digits would be negligent. 8 is corruption.

Maybe you don't appreciate how much it is. The government's total PPE budget is 15 Billion. There are currently over 10,000 shipping containers full of this stuff sat in Felixstowe gathering dust. The numbers involved are astronomical.

Is it a ridiculous sum for getting in the middle of something the government could do themselves? Yes.
Is it a ridiculous sum if he can divert a shipment the Chinese supplier was planning to send elsewhere? No.

Nobody knows why that figure came to be.
 
No. Those numbers do not stack.

You are suggesting that a jeweller in Florida, has better procurement routes than the NHS.

At factories levels, it's highly possible, if he tied up contracts with the factories as an agent (I deal with multiple agents from 3-4 factories in the Far East). The NHS procurement function would of exhausted all their known routes quickly. To get the volumes they needed, considering the global demand, they would have gone down non-traditional routes. Especially when other countries governments were stepping in to do the negotiating most likely.

If he has connections that see his involvement be worth £21m, from a standing start, he should have been the head of NHS Procurement.

It’s corruption. Or ineptitude.

I do appreciate the fact that it all turned into the Wild West. But this is not a ‘Smile and Wave’ moment.

Based off what I've read of your posts on this topic, I don't think you understand procurement, let alone NHS procurement, and more so when products are in global demand. This wasn't a market stall of people trying to sell their PPE, they could literally sell it to the highest bidder. The products were more commoditised than some consumer electronic products, hell most of the mobile phone grey market suppliers I used to deal with switched quickly into PPE in February as they saw their markets winding up.

At the very least this should see an MP, in the house, explaining. An apology for wasting public funds through panic. Fcuk, I’d forgive that. I paid £80 for 5 PP3/N95 masks so my family members could have one.

But this shit can’t just coast by with the public just nodding.

Latex gloves. Plastic gowns. £21m admin fee.

I don't think anyone is just nodding, they procured 3.4 billion pieces of PPE in 6 months. £21m doesn't sound huge in the context of procuring large volumes of items, and on the market dynamics that existed back then.
 
There are currently over 10,000 shipping containers full of this stuff sat in Felixstowe gathering dust. The numbers involved are astronomical.

Felixstowe is a potential disaster waiting to happen, I've got 10 containers sat there waiting to be processed.
 
731 deaths in Italy today.. Highest in months.. right up there with the first peak..

How bad are things there?

Not too bad yet. I had to get winter tyres fitted today and the roads were almost as busy as normal. It's only when working hours finish and everything is closed that you notice the empty streets. Last time it was focused in one place, now it's more spread out. For us in the previous epicentre the second wave is ok so far, but maybe the rest of the country feels differently.

I saw somebody or other from the government saying we're now at the top of the curve and 10th December would be the peak of deaths, so the cases should start to decline a week or two before that.
 
At factories levels, it's highly possible, if he tied up contracts with the factories as an agent (I deal with multiple agents from 3-4 factories in the Far East). The NHS procurement function would of exhausted all their known routes quickly. To get the volumes they needed, considering the global demand, they would have gone down non-traditional routes. Especially when other countries governments were stepping in to do the negotiating most likely.



Based off what I've read of your posts on this topic, I don't think you understand procurement, let alone NHS procurement, and more so when products are in global demand. This wasn't a market stall of people trying to sell their PPE, they could literally sell it to the highest bidder. The products were more commoditised than some consumer electronic products, hell most of the mobile phone grey market suppliers I used to deal with switched quickly into PPE in February as they saw their markets winding up.



I don't think anyone is just nodding, they procured 3.4 billion pieces of PPE in 6 months. £21m doesn't sound huge in the context of procuring large volumes of items, and on the market dynamics that existed back then.

Stop attaching 3.4 Billion items to the £21m. They’re not linked. At all.

My mate runs the SE Asia division of Kuehne & Hagel.

Another friend is head of procurement for NZ Hospitals.

I have a half-decent second-hand understanding of procurement and logistics. I’m nowhere near an authority.

But £21m for a single stage procurement is a ransom. Not a fee.
 
If the factories have contracts with their agents, then there is no bypassing them, government or not. It's not like you can go into the Far East yourself and navigate procurement for the billions of items needed in a short two week period either. Especially in a situation where the market wasn't short of buyers for those particular products.

I'm not defending the process, but you don't turn up with a shopping list to asian factories like it's a pick & mix choice in a sweet shop.
Huh it’s not hard to find factories on Alibaba.com
Heck I registered as a company and got sent loads of catalogues from them. It’s not hard