SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

There's a lot of people having their cake and eating it here. Criticising the Government for having a party last year while the population were making their heroic sacrifices, while at the same time just last year saying they were having a getting together with friends and family anyway, the rules are nonsensical plus all the other excuses. It's almost like they're taking advantage of an excuse to have another party this year...
I partially agree however, the government as the rule setters, should lead by example.

However the problem comes from people needing the government to set an example rather than making their own sensible judgments. A portion of the population would probably stop wiping their arse if they found out BJ didn't do it.
 
There's a lot of people having their cake and eating it here. Criticising the Government for having a party last year while the population were making their heroic sacrifices, while at the same time just last year saying they were having a getting together with friends and family anyway, the rules are nonsensical plus all the other excuses. It's almost like they're taking advantage of an excuse to have another party this year...

Rinse & repeat.
 
With this talk of “plan B” is there any indication of what that means for travel?

We have friends we’ve not seen for two years due to arrive from the US next Friday so I’m really hoping they don’t get scuppered. Obviously jabbed and have even had boosters.
 
With this talk of “plan B” is there any indication of what that means for travel?

We have friends we’ve not seen for two years due to arrive from the US next Friday so I’m really hoping they don’t get scuppered. Obviously jabbed and have even had boosters.
Everything I’ve seen so far points towards vaccine passports and WFH mandates. Nothing on travel that I’ve seen (other than the day 2 PCR and pre departure tests).
 
With this talk of “plan B” is there any indication of what that means for travel?

We have friends we’ve not seen for two years due to arrive from the US next Friday so I’m really hoping they don’t get scuppered. Obviously jabbed and have even had boosters.

From what I can gather, I don't think there would be further restrictions on international travel. In regards to required testing, that's currently at the strictest level it's been at since the pandemic started.

I think plan b would mainly include advice regarding WFH, new mask policy and the need for covid test/vaccine certification to access certain public activities/spaces. But it's all feeling very up in the air right now.
 
I partially agree however, the government as the rule setters, should lead by example.

However the problem comes from people needing the government to set an example rather than making their own sensible judgments. A portion of the population would probably stop wiping their arse if they found out BJ didn't do it.

To be fair, a portion would also probably start doing it as well.
 
Everything I’ve seen so far points towards vaccine passports and WFH mandates. Nothing on travel that I’ve seen (other than the day 2 PCR and pre departure tests).
From what I can gather, I don't think there would be further restrictions on international travel. In regards to required testing, that's currently at the strictest level it's been at since the pandemic started.

I think plan b would mainly include advice regarding WFH, new mask policy and the need for covid test/vaccine certification to access certain public activities/spaces. But it's all feeling very up in the air right now.

Thanks both, yea they’re all set up for their PCR tests on arrival so fingers crossed that will be sufficient.
 
There's a lot of people having their cake and eating it here. Criticising the Government for having a party last year while the population were making their heroic sacrifices, while at the same time just last year saying they were having a getting together with friends and family anyway, the rules are nonsensical plus all the other excuses. It's almost like they're taking advantage of an excuse to have another party this year...
I, for one, followed the rules. Not necessarily because the government told us not to, but largely because it was sensible at the time. Still, posts like this are a huge generalisation and even if some broke them anyway and want to use it as an excuse, there are many people who did follow the rules. And even if the decision this year won’t be changed because of the governments breach of their own rules because people like me will still make our own decisions within the bounds of the rules, it is both incredibly disrespectful from them, and more understandable for those who will now choose not to because of it. And to be honest it isn’t about parties for the most part. It’s the inference on all the other rules people followed to which something like this is a kick in the teeth. It’s the rules preventing you seeing someone in hospital who doesn’t have covid but can’t because of the rules. Or seeing a lonely grand parent because of the rules. Or a whole host of things far more personal and important than Christmas parties.
 
I don’t see how Omicron is going to significantly prolong the pandemic - at the rate it spreads by the end of January everyone within the U.K. and EU will have either had a booster or have been exposed to it. The scary unknown is unless it is significantly milder I don’t see how hospitals aren’t about to get overwhelmed. Do we introduce tough restrictions for 6 weeks to give everyone the chance to get their booster or do we take a gamble on it being milder/community immunity being high enough to keep hospitalisations manageable…I suspect Boris will be going for option B like he did with Delta in the summer.
 
For anyone curious about what these antibody neutralisation trials look like and why they differ both in the numbers they produce and the way they present it:

 
In ireland, 7,359 cases were recorded in the 5-12 age group. An increase of 21% compared to last week.
Wow, who knew that kids pickup every illness going around? It’s almost like everyone stick their head in the sand to this fact.
now they are recommending 5-12 year olds get vaccinated
 
I don’t see how Omicron is going to significantly prolong the pandemic - at the rate it spreads by the end of January everyone within the U.K. and EU will have either had a booster or have been exposed to it. The scary unknown is unless it is significantly milder I don’t see how hospitals aren’t about to get overwhelmed. Do we introduce tough restrictions for 6 weeks to give everyone the chance to get their booster or do we take a gamble on it being milder/community immunity being high enough to keep hospitalisations manageable…I suspect Boris will be going for option B like he did with Delta in the summer.

Yeah, that’s an interesting one. A much steeper peak on the way up could mean a steep peak on the way down. The area under the curve (total infected) much bigger but duration could be shorter.

The big unknown (one of many!) is how this interacts with delta. In South Africa they were out the other end of their delta wave. Everyone is assuming this will immediately dominate delta but what happens if they co-exist over the next couple of months? Could we all end up getting a dose of delta and a dose of omicron? Or vice versa? What does that mean to the duration of the current surge?
 
In ireland, 7,359 cases were recorded in the 5-12 age group. An increase of 21% compared to last week.
Wow, who knew that kids pickup every illness going around? It’s almost like everyone stick their head in the sand to this fact.
now they are recommending 5-12 year olds get vaccinated
It would be interesting to know how many of the 7000 had any symptoms or were actually ill.
 
In ireland, 7,359 cases were recorded in the 5-12 age group. An increase of 21% compared to last week.
Wow, who knew that kids pickup every illness going around? It’s almost like everyone stick their head in the sand to this fact.
now they are recommending 5-12 year olds get vaccinated

All the arguing about kids is getting silly at this point. Nobody was sticking their head in the sand. What’s happening right now is a surge of cases in the unvaccinated. Which obviously includes kids under 12. And we would have ridden that surge out without any real drama thanks to boosters in adults (hospitalisations currently stable/decreasing, ICU likewise) and the fact covid doesn’t make kids very sick; if it wasn’t for omicron on the horizon. That’s the obvious reason behind the recent restrictions/general apprehension from NPHET et al.
 
All the arguing about kids is getting silly at this point. Nobody was sticking their head in the sand. What’s happening right now is a surge of cases in the unvaccinated. Which obviously includes kids under 12. And we would have ridden that surge out without any real drama thanks to boosters in adults (hospitalisations currently stable/decreasing, ICU likewise) and the fact covid doesn’t make kids very sick; if it wasn’t for omicron on the horizon. That’s the obvious reason behind the recent restrictions/general apprehension from NPHET et al.
I know I take the piss on the kids thing with you but in fairness I think it's justifiable for people to be a bit miffed about how the schools were handled. I don't think anyone realistically wanted them closed but the fact that they got rid of contact tracing, didn't introduce antigen testing when they said they would, sent incredibly mixed messages on mask wearing (and have now changed their minds despite repeatedly saying the opposite) and all around kept saying that schools were perfectly safe. I think questions have to be asked but at the other end of the spectrum they are getting a bit of an unfair rep cause as you said, they are the only cohort not vaxxed now. I think we can all agree though that the best solution is for Storm Barra to hang around until winter is over.
 
I know I take the piss on the kids thing with you but in fairness I think it's justifiable for people to be a bit miffed about how the schools were handled. I don't think anyone realistically wanted them closed but the fact that they got rid of contact tracing, didn't introduce antigen testing when they said they would, sent incredibly mixed messages on mask wearing (and have now changed their minds despite repeatedly saying the opposite) and all around kept saying that schools were perfectly safe. I think questions have to be asked but at the other end of the spectrum they are getting a bit of an unfair rep cause as you said, they are the only cohort not vaxxed now. I think we can all agree though that the best solution is for Storm Barra to hang around until winter is over.

That’s all fair criticism.

The “perfectly safe” thing is a little unfair. The context was that it was safe to keep schools open, with the measures in place at the time. Which it was, based on the variants that were dominant at the time those original quotes were made. Delta move the goalposts.
 
That’s all fair criticism.

The “perfectly safe” thing is a little unfair. The context was that it was safe to keep schools open, with the measures in place at the time. Which it was, based on the variants that were dominant at the time those original quotes were made. Delta move the goalposts.
Delta did move the goalposts but we should have moved in context with it, instead we removed contact tracing etc

I was always annoyed at this idea at the time that kids can’t spread this thing around. Yes they might not get as sick but they surely could spread it like everything else they bring home from school.

but schools needed to stay open at all cost. After all who was going to look after the kids when mummy and daddy were at work? Not the grandparents. Schools were needed. I get that. I just wish there was consistency across the board. For example we had shielding letters and were seeing nobody apart from, sending kids to school. Defeating the purpose. We were told that there was nothing in place for that scenario and we’d be reported to social services if we kept our kids off
 
All the arguing about kids is getting silly at this point. Nobody was sticking their head in the sand. What’s happening right now is a surge of cases in the unvaccinated. Which obviously includes kids under 12. And we would have ridden that surge out without any real drama thanks to boosters in adults (hospitalisations currently stable/decreasing, ICU likewise) and the fact covid doesn’t make kids very sick; if it wasn’t for omicron on the horizon. That’s the obvious reason behind the recent restrictions/general apprehension from NPHET et al.
I personally think that it’s because kids are getting tested properly now, not just a few here and there, coupled with a surge
 
Yeah, that’s an interesting one. A much steeper peak on the way up could mean a steep peak on the way down. The area under the curve (total infected) much bigger but duration could be shorter.

The big unknown (one of many!) is how this interacts with delta. In South Africa they were out the other end of their delta wave. Everyone is assuming this will immediately dominate delta but what happens if they co-exist over the next couple of months? Could we all end up getting a dose of delta and a dose of omicron? Or vice versa? What does that mean to the duration of the current surge?
Yeah I was just reading the latest Sage predictions - highly likely an Omnicron wave will peak above 2k admissions a day - and they mentioned one of the big unknowns is we may have a Delta wave and an Omnicron wave occurring within different cohorts simultaneously - hopefully not!
 
Yeah I was just reading the latest Sage predictions - highly likely an Omnicron wave will peak above 2k admissions a day - and they mentioned one of the big unknowns is we may have a Delta wave and an Omnicron wave occurring within different cohorts simultaneously - hopefully not!

It does mention in that leaked report on the BBC that the scale of the hospitalisations is completely unknown. SAGE have a tendency to go for the worst case scenario, and their models have been found to be some way out of late.
 
There's a lot of people having their cake and eating it here. Criticising the Government for having a party last year while the population were making their heroic sacrifices, while at the same time just last year saying they were having a getting together with friends and family anyway, the rules are nonsensical plus all the other excuses. It's almost like they're taking advantage of an excuse to have another party this year...

this should be extremely obvious, but the problem is that it's the govt setting the very rules that it's breaking.
 
It does mention in that leaked report on the BBC that the scale of the hospitalisations is completely unknown. SAGE have a tendency to go for the worst case scenario, and their models have been found to be some way out of late.
They’ll have numerous different models - it’s very difficult to predict this stuff at the moment as we have such little data on this variant. However, them saying “highly likely” means this isn’t the worst case scenario they’ve modelled.


“The BBC understands the estimates used by Sage are based on very early preliminary data and there is much uncertainty about the scale of any future Omicron wave and its impact on hospital admissions.

But the scientists say the peak of the wave is "highly likely to be higher" than 1,000 to 2,000 Omicron admissions per day without new rules to slow the spread of rising infections.”
 
Yeah I was just reading the latest Sage predictions - highly likely an Omnicron wave will peak above 2k admissions a day - and they mentioned one of the big unknowns is we may have a Delta wave and an Omnicron wave occurring within different cohorts simultaneously - hopefully not!

Yeah, there’s a definite possibility that omicron’s main advantage over delta is immune escape and delta will remain dominant in the unvaccinated. Delta mopping up the low hanging fruit while omicron rips through everyone else.
 
Covid is obviously spreading mainly in schools amongst kids, but then they give it to the school staff, their parents and then on it goes. Workplaces or cinemas are not the problem. Schools is the elephant in the room.
 
Boris announces England moves to the Plan B controls including:
  • Guidance to work from home will be reintroduced for those who can do so from Monday
  • From this Friday, mandatory masks will be extended to most public venues, including theatres and cinemas
  • From next week, the NHS Covid pass will be mandatory for entry into nightclubs and venues where larger crowds gather
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/59575030
 
It's amazing how this happens just as Christmas arrives when schools and a lot of workplaces will be off anyway. They'll say their measures were amazing and they worked :lol:
 
this should be extremely obvious, but the problem is that it's the govt setting the very rules that it's breaking.

Thanks for pointing out something extremely obvious. I might be a buffoon who needs to be talked to like a child, unable to process extremely obvious information, or I might've been making a different point to the one you read. Who knows. No need for intended meaning to get in the way of petty point scoring though, right?
 
Boris announces England moves to the Plan B controls including:
  • Guidance to work from home will be reintroduced for those who can do so from Monday
  • From this Friday, mandatory masks will be extended to most public venues, including theatres and cinemas
  • From next week, the NHS Covid pass will be mandatory for entry into nightclubs and venues where larger crowds gather
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/59575030
Same rules that are in Scotland and Wales where it’s doubling at the same rate. Not sure this will slow it that much.