Just as we naked apes evolved and advanced as a species for survival. Can't viruses do the same?
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Scientists saying that the mutations within the virus aren't natural and are too many, and that this is literally exactly what gets worked on at the Wuhan bio / germ research centre.
I think it's man-made, though obviously it'll probably never be admitted by the Chinese government.
Could you point me to some studies that are saying this? The only one I read that implied a man made source (I think a Delhi University one) was widely debunked as poor science.
Conspiracy theories are always intriguing.
For comparison, swine influenza that took place only a decade ago, infected a billion people and killed half a million. China must be pretty shit at making viruses that are nowhere as contagious as a natural virus that caused a global pandemic a decade ago. Fire those scientists!
I’ve long suspected that this is a biowarfare research gone wrong, long incubation period, symptomless transmission/infection, originated from ‘coincidentally’ the only city/province in China with a facility of that ilk. A similar virus but with much higher fatality rate could be more devastating than any nuclear stockpile.
You're in the higher estimations of both those numbers. Could be about 300 million less infected and 300k less deaths. Like the swine flu, Covid-19 isn't much of a threat to a healthy individual.
The seasonal flu that happens every year is more deadly than the swineflu.
Clearly the Chinese government did not play Plague Inc.
COVID-19 is contagious but not deadly to a healthy individual. Killing off the old and unhealthy ones have raised alert levels of the virus while its barely infected enough people outside of China. Vaccines are already in progress and borders closed. Definitely not going to destroy the world at this stage now!.
COVID-19 is contagious but not deadly to a healthy individual. Killing off the old and unhealthy ones have raised alert levels of the virus while its barely infected enough people outside of China. Vaccines are already in progress and borders closed. Definitely not going to destroy the world at this stage now!.
To the people suggesting we should've just closed all borders long ago to protect the public: How does a financial crisis and lack of imports (e.g. food and medicine) protect the public?
I don't think it's as black and white as you make it out to be, or that we can just close borders at the first whiff of a virus. It's a complex matter.
I don't think it's as black and white as you make it out to be, or that we can just close borders at the first whiff of a virus. It's a complex matter.
Another few people in Croatia by the looks of it, and all of them were visiting Italy just few days ago.
I don't think closing the borders completely is neccesarily, but stopping free roaming and at least tourist travelling is something that can easily be done.
I don't think closing the borders completely is neccesarily, but stopping free roaming and at least tourist travelling is something that can easily be done.
Or they are playing it right now! They're devolving the serious symptoms and will buy them only when everyone's infected.
Some bonkers conspiracy stuff being spouted here!
Jesus Christ, some of you need to get a grip. Just a few cases and people are panicking left, right and centre.
Viruses mutate, as do bacteria. It's the nature of these organisms.
Unless something drastically changes, this would be a crap biological weapon. Relatively low mortality rate and seems to mostly kill those with Co morbidities.
I can imagine the scientists in the lab now. If we go to war with America, who do we want to kill? Clint, the solider? Amy, the potential mother? Nope, Maevis, in a home with diabetes and heart disease.
Again, I must ask. Did we have the same reaction in 2009 to the H1N1? Mass hysteria, calls to close down borders with America, anti American racism etc etc
Things would also have to get a lot more serious before countries start shutting down flights en masse. The world and its economy, bar a few notable exceptions, is incredibly interlinked now.
Viruses mutate, as do bacteria. It's the nature of these organisms.
Unless something drastically changes, this would be a crap biological weapon. Relatively low mortality rate and seems to mostly kill those with Co morbidities.
I can imagine the scientists in the lab now. If we go to war with America, who do we want to kill? Clint, the solider? Amy, the potential mother? Nope, Maevis, in a home with diabetes and heart disease.
Again, I must ask. Did we have the same reaction in 2009 to the H1N1? Mass hysteria, calls to close down borders with America, anti American racism etc etc
Things would also have to get a lot more serious before countries start shutting down flights en masse. The world and its economy, bar a few notable exceptions, is incredibly interlinked now.
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About the lab?
It’s not that bonkers really. The only bio level 4 lab that specializes in these type of viruses happens to be in Wuhan the epicenter. In recent days the Chinese have talked about extra security measures being implemented at their lab. Why?
On the other hand I’ve also read that staff from that lab sometimes sell off the animals to the local market for extra money rather than the protocol of incinerating animals that tests have been carried out on.
Either way, I strongly believe that the virus escaped from that lab. It’s too much of a coincidence
Also, I'm not sure if I've just not read it.... But a level 4 lab doesn't necessarily mean that it's a weapons laboratory.
It's just a grading system regarding the facilities at the lab and the type of pathogen it can handle.
In the UK, for some reason, we have 8 or 9 I think, though they fulfill different functions.
It's just a grading system regarding the facilities at the lab and the type of pathogen it can handle.
In the UK, for some reason, we have 8 or 9 I think, though they fulfill different functions.
So following on from yesterday, I decided to self isolate today until I get my call back from the NHS giving me the green light. I’m not one for hysterics, but the exact way this sort of thing spreads is from people thinking “I probably don’t have it” and failing to take precautions - I don’t want to be one of those people, even if I AM confident that I don’t have it.
That may be true but it’s the only one they have, which coincidentally happens to be in Wuhan
And also happens to be a virus research lab
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology
Better safe than sorry I’d say
I'm not saying it didn't spread from there by accident or whatever reason.
It may also be a weapons lab, I don't know, though I'm guessing most countries, espcially ones as secretive as China, probably don't advertise the location of their weapons facilities. I'm not sure I believe China has just one level 4 lab either tbh.
Just saying all that level 4 means is it can handle organisms like Lassa, Ebola etc.
I think it's also important to point out that coronaviruses are not some novel virus groups but that SARS and MERS are/were both in tjr coronavirus family.
Very well said.
The media are in full panic mode and the public at large will follow that.
It could possibly become a pandemic but let us keep things in perspective.
I don't subscribe to all these so called theories.
It is down to the way more affluent Chinese like to eat more exotic foods.
Yet another good reason to not eat meat...
The lab made virus conspiracy has been debunked by US experts. The Wuhan facility is not capable of this kind of work, and nor does the virus show any easily identifiable signs of human genetic manipulation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...-linking-chinas-coronavirus-weapons-research/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...-linking-chinas-coronavirus-weapons-research/
I don’t think affluent Chinese would be going to this wet market to get their food
I'm not surprised, if China genuinely does have just 1 facility, it won't just be to
But research lab most likely just means they're working to understand these kinds of pathogens better, develop vaccines etc. Not necessarily to weaponise them.
Again, I'm not saying its definitely not, I'll never be surprised by the scummy actions of governments the world over.
Its just I think people are hearing 'Level 4 lab' and automatically assuming this means some kind of malicious work.
I'm sorry to keep beating this drum but the 2009 H1N1 Pandemic (officially confirmed as a pandemic), which originated in the USA, in its 1st year:
-60.8 million cases in the USA
-275,000 hospital admissions
-12, 500 deaths
-Worldwide, number of deaths ranged from 150, 000-575,000
-Of which sadly, most were people under the age of 65
All CDC estimates
As a comparison, about 2 months in now to Corona:
-81,000 confirmed cases worldwide (currently almost all in China, specifically Hubei, South Korea and a cruise ship, 98.7% or so)
-2, 765 deaths worldwide
-Most deaths occur in older people, with co-morbidities
Of course, death rate currently seems a lot higher.
It does look however like it is about to start spreading more, including unfortunately to countries which will be less able to deal with the spread than the likes of China, Japan, Korea or Europe. So I guess we will see the effect unfolding in the next few months.
We will also see, for those skeptical of the Chinese numbers, death rates in countries with less ability to hide such data. And I imagine we will see a spike in cases worldwide over the next few months and weeks as our case finding, contact tracing and surveillance networks improve (a vital part of any outbreak control exercise). And hopefully a lower mortality rate as we uncover more mild cases.
This is the correct reaction. If everybody did the same as you, the spread of infection would be distractly cut. Hopefully you're fine and get given the all clear.
Instead you've got people carrying on without a care in the world. People who've been in/around that area should self isolate immediately. If you have cough/cold symptoms then isolate immediately.
The issue is many people don't get sick pay or can't afford to take 2 weeks of work, so they take the risk and carry on. This is why the Virus will spread, we just aren't careful enough.
Luckily this Virus doesn't seem too deadly - but eventually one will turn up that kills a much higher % of people. We need to take this as a warning and take these viruses a lot more seriously in how to contain.
Would be great if people could use up all that conspiracy energy on reading actual expert reports.
Good on you, and be well Walrus.
I don’t believe it was developed as a weapon or released maliciously.
Here’s my theory:
Supposedly China discovered a bat colony in early 2000s and extracted samples of viruses from, which were stored in this particular lab since 2013. I believe this virus to be one of those samples.
Patient zero was a research lab assistant from this facility. I think perhaps someone dropped or spilled a sample, an accident. Someone attempted to cover it up badly and it escalated from there.
Also, developing and releasing a lethal virus intentionally makes no sense in the modern world. Any country that has the capability of doing so would be just as fecked as everyone else - unless they release it elsewhere and immediately close down all borders and prevent all travel in and out of the country. Which would mean almost immediate economic collapse.
Yeah, fair enough, better to be cautious for few days.
Feck you. Don't let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy story.
The virus was obviously engineered by the Chinese in cooperation with Hilary Clinton and the Who to enable a globalist world order. UEFA are in on it too!
They created it in a Pizza restaurant used as cover for virus creation.
I am fully in support of the FA and UEFA to cancel this season and declare all results null and void. It will be like the world wars.
That's fair, it wasn't really you I was talking about earlier. That is a far more sensible hypothesis than some of the others wafting about....
Its made its way to South America - Brazil.
What good would it be for China to engineer a not so deadly virus, then start it off in their own country? I just dont buy it.
Let's be honest these goverments probably have all sorts of stuff laying around that could probably bump us off in minutes if they really wanted to.
Let's be honest these goverments probably have all sorts of stuff laying around that could probably bump us off in minutes if they really wanted to.
Not that I believe it but any type of war will result in deaths of your own people. Additionally, maybe they wanted to cut their population down?
At the same time as they've just relaxed the 1 child policy?
Of course war will usually result in deaths for you too but usually you don't start wars where the deaths are almost exclusively in your own country and population and, in a dictatorship, invite real criticism from your population onto you for the first time in decades.
False flag, the population aren't dead just bring hidden away in camps. Don't trust anyone, drink bottled water.
I don't buy the story that China purposely spread the virus, but if they did they'd have plenty of reasons. Like @Di Maria's angel pointed out.
Wasnt there a lot of protests just before the outbreak?
I tend to believe the easiest explanation is usually the right one.
Those same bat colonies could have been eaten by some other animal, or otherwise come into contact with them, and that animal has then spread it around its own species until one of them is caught by man and ends up in a wet market. That's how pretty much every other one of these outbreaks has started, humans and animals interacting too closely.
In Hong Kong, not on the mainland.
And those protests have done little other than tank the economy of HK, while the surrounding mainland Chinese cities pick up business.