SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

MaxiPaxi said:
Russia hasn't been affected badly at all from what I hear from my relatives. Also, Russia is huge but otherwise the population is only 140 million or so. They've got quite strict rules in place if one doesn't isolate -- up to 5 years in prison -- and you can bet your bottom dollar those sentences will be handed down. Also, I absolutely hear nothing from VK (russian social media platform akin to Facebook) which to my knowledge isn't as censored as some would have you believe. I see plenty of articles criticising the central government and lots of comments so I don't expect this to be censored either. So I think thankfully Russia are coping well at the minute. I've no idea about India though.

As they say: in Russia, you infect the coronavirus.
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If it is anything like Ukraine, I’d be utterly stunned if there was any sort of provision for testing outside of the major cities that doesn’t then require tests to be sent to major cities. I think it is matter of time for this part of the world, unless they can actually contain the limited number of cases and shut the borders.

The problem is can you keep the borders closed for months whilst the virus is everywhere else?

My wife and I have written off any prospect of her parents coming from Ukraine to visit their new born grandchild in the next couple of months. They’re likely to have problems returning home if exposed here.
 
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As a nation, are we even capable of a lockdown? Would people listen?

We need to reduce the burden on the NHS ASAP with non Covid related issues. Shutting down clubs and pubs on Friday and Saturday nights to reduce burden on 999 services should be done first, and work from home if possible, and slowly increase measures over the next 4 weeks as we get to, hopefully, a lessened peak
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
I don't entirely understand 'we applaud this decision to allow huge amounts of our readership to die', to be honest.

It feels bad for business.
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I have to guess they make most of their money these days from online pics of celebs in bikinis.

Granted they lie to their readership on a daily basis but there's something really fecking bleak about this one, I thought I hated tories voters but turns out it's nothing compared to the hatred daily mail staff members have.
 
0le said:
And that just demonstrates how quickly a situation can change and how difficult it is to make any decision.
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It was clear at the time shit was hitting the fan football wise Leicester and Man city already had players in isolation
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
We're not arguing that Boris Johnson swore to his nearest and dearest yesterday that under no circumstances would he ever shut down mass gatherings. We're arguing it's an embarrassing u-turn to state that it wouldn't work and a day later leak that it's now the policy.
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Banning mass gatherings was always going to happen. It was just a matter of when would be most appropriate.

The point at which it did happen was not a u-turn. It was a change in circumstance and one that rendered Johnson's previous comments void.

Johsnon's always been fluffy orator who says shit because he likes the sound of the words. Like I say, I don't care so much about what he says as I do the underlying rationale. I think we can all predict what that will be (and I've stated it several times above).

The light went from green to amber, so we're slowing things down. When it goes to red, we'll stop. They're not u-turns. We're still going in the same direction but trying to take things gradually so we don't crash.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
We're not arguing that Boris Johnson swore to his nearest and dearest yesterday that under no circumstances would he ever shut down mass gatherings. We're arguing it's an embarrassing u-turn to state that it wouldn't work and a day later leak that it's now the policy.
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Look at the video from yesterday, from 46:10. He says then than mass gatherings are currently under review, it's not a U-turn.

 
MaxiPaxi said:
Believe what exactly? I've plenty of relatives in russia who I'm in touch with daily, not to mention having plenty of friends who I trust. Not a single one of them so much as mentioned coronavirus to me in weeks now. Also, I follow, few large news communities on VK platform who consistently criticise Putin, the corruption, the neglect of healthcare et al you name it -- they would absolutely post anything about the coronavirus, since they did daily in early February. I think you could find one my posts on here which I paraphrased about Russian doctors refusing to tend to a suspected case. The doctor locked the door in his office and spoke to the patient and told him to go home. That wasn't censored and it was big news in Bashkortostan, which is where I'm originally from. So why am I being naive?

My post about on 26th of Feb: I was actually worried that Russia would be a shitshow, alas, thus far they've dealt with this well, most probably, because of them closing boarders early, implementing some draconian measures and our sparsly populated country.
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We’re down the rabbit hole, lads.

North Korea also has no cases too.

By the way, I can also confirm there are no gays in Chechnya and that 96.77% of Crimean voters wanted to join Russia in the perfectly fair 2014 referendum.
 
Dante said:
blah blah blah
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'U-turns don't exist, actually' is not a take I'm playing with.
Fiskey said:
Look at the video from yesterday, from 46:10. He says then than mass gatherings are currently under review, it's not a U-turn.
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Yes, I know. They said they didn't think it would work but that they didn't rule it out. Then a day later they went with 'actually we're doing it now'.

That is a u-turn. Where one day you say you think one thing and the next day it is another. That is a u-turn. There is no definition of a u-turn that does not include this.

You might as well argue that reality is subjective at this point.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
'U-turns don't exist, actually' is not a take I'm playing with.
Yes, I know. They said they didn't think it would work but that they didn't rule it out. Then a day later they went with 'actually we're doing it now'.

That is a u-turn. Where one day you say you think one thing and the next day it is another. That is a u-turn. There is no definition of a u-turn that does not include this.

You might as well argue that reality is subjective at this point.
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He literally says it's currently under review and we may ban them. That's really clear, I genuinely don't understand how you can perceive that as a U-turn unless you have an agenda.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
Russia is a dead end geographically, and I mean there's no connection flights, it's not a big tourist destination. So people don't tend to visit Russia unless they really have to. Which is stark difference between Turkey, who has one of the biggest airports in the world, with 200 million people coming through every year I think. So I'd be shocked if there was no cases in Turkey.
Also, Russia has strict measures in place so I have no reason to disbelieve their low numbers. And to add, again, I've immediate family living in a city with more than a million people, if the virus is in Russia they'd absolutely know about it and tell me. Things are looking good so far in Russia but it could change, all it takes is a cluster of cases.
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Russia is the 11th busiest country in the world for air travel (2018 figures). Keep digging.
 
Fiskey said:
He literally says it's currently under review and we may ban them. That's really clear, I genuinely don't understand how you can perceive that as a U-turn unless you have an agenda.
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"The scientific advice as we've said over the last couple of weeks is that banning such events will have little effect on the spread".

One day later...

'We're gonna have to ban such events'.
 
These last few pages are like watching cognitive dissonance and rationalisation in live action.

Even the daily mail and telegraph reckon this is a u-turn. It's fine if you previously defended the old position you know, no need to invent alternative history.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
"The scientific advice as we've said over the last couple of weeks is that banning such events will have little effect on the spread".

One day later...

'We're gonna have to ban such events'.
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Dante already explained that Boris has not explained well the plan. Focus on the actual plan rather than the speech.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
"The scientific advice as we've said over the last couple of weeks is that banning such events will have little effect on the spread".

One day later...

'We're gonna have to ban such events'.
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Because of the impact on services, which is the reason given as to why they would be banned.
 
Smores said:
These last few pages are like watching cognitive dissonance and rationalisation in live action.

Even the daily mail and telegraph reckon this is a u-turn. It's fine if you previously defended the old position you know, no need to invent alternative history.
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Sorry, I'll stop entertaining them.
 
Smores said:
These last few pages are like watching cognitive dissonance and rationalisation in live action.

Even the daily mail and telegraph reckon this is a u-turn. It's fine if you previously defended the old position you know, no need to invent alternative history.
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Papers have a vested interest in saying something is a U-turn, because its news, it sells. Have you watched the video and also think it's a U-turn?
 
Irwin99 said:
As someone said you can change your mind quickly but Jesus, after one day? Doesn't exactly inspire confidence of a well thought out plan. Maybe influenced by Trump finally admitting it is a state of emergency or are they just abandoning the herd immunity thing?
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A day is a lifetime here. There’s will be changes to policy virtually every day, as there has been in virtually every country across Europe. Don’t confuse strategy and tactics. You can have strategy which you follow over weeks and months, adjusting tactics as the scenario changes.

We already know what the next steps are as Sir Patrick Vallance and Chris Witty were open about on Thursday. At some point mass gatherings will no longer be permitted, at some schools will close, at some point workplaces will largely be shut down.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
What on earth are you talking about? :wenger:
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You have evidence from your family members/friends that Russia appears to be coping. But a lot of people don't trust the Russian government so there is doubt about what exactly is going on in Russia, a bit like how people are cautious when having to rely on statistics which come from China.
 
0le said:
You have evidence from your family members/friends that Russia appears to be coping. But a lot of people don't trust the government there so there is doubt about what exactly is going on in Russia, a bit like how people are cautious when having to rely on statistics which come from China.
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Is it so hard to believe that Russia is dealing with this virus in a coherent manner?
 
Getting very scared for my parents now. Both over 60, both smoked all their lives until 2-3 years ago, Dad has heart issues. This would kill them.

They're taking precautions but it's my generation with our "Be grand" attitude that'll do the damage.
 
Revan said:
But why?

Do a lockdown now, there are just a few thousands of infected people, so it is easier to manage. Do a lockdown in 2-3 weeks and there are hundreds of thousands of infected people, so much more difficult to manage the spread.
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So in your scenario, you lockdown now when just a few thousand people are infected. In a few weeks when hundreds of thousands are infected, are you continuing the lockdown further, or now telling people to commence life again?

Presumably you are locking down further at which point millions are infected, but people now are mentally fatigued, many households are fecked financially and/or out of resources, and infrastructure has begun to fail. There’s now civil unrest. Are you telling people to continue locking down because the worst shit is yet to come as we still have not reached the point where 10+ million infected at once?

You can’t lock down for 3 months and this shit is going to get worse and worse throughout that period, even with the most stringent lockdowns possible.

The health aspects of COVID-19 are one thing, the economic ramifications for individuals, for normal working class and lower middle class families are even more precarious. In six months time we will look back and realise the elderly in end of life care already were not the biggest victims of all this, but families who have to pick up the pieces are. I say this as someone who has five elderly grandparents of various states who I do not see all making it through this year. They will have it light compared to those who lose their job, their home, their business, all whilst battling ill health.
 
Fiskey said:
Because of the impact on services, which is the reason given as to why they would be banned.
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If this is the case why have they only banned them now ? What brand new information have they received within 24 hours that has told them there would now be an impact on services, when it's been clear for weeks that services are always going to be under a huge strain due to the virus. Again does it not worry you that the FA has a better reading on the virus than the British government ?
 
Mr Pigeon said:
The Whole Foods company is only giving its staff unpaid leave. To be fair, it must be struggling for money since they're owned by... *checks notes* ... Jeff Bezos.
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My company (american owned) is doing same. If your sick yourself its SSP, if you have kids and can't cover when the schools shut down then... well, your fecked. I assume its the same for most US/UK business as we try to adopt the strategy of 'carry on as normal'.
 
Fiskey said:
Papers have a vested interest in saying something is a U-turn, because its news, it sells. Have you watched the video and also think it's a U-turn?
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I'm sorry bit they really don't need a spin to sell news right now. You told me it was almost pointless just yesterday and defended the delay and accused other countries of gesturing with these same measures.

Christ if you lot arguing about timing truly meant one day later would be fine then god bless you what a waste of time.
 
Simbo said:
My company (american owned) is doing same. If your sick yourself its SSP, if you have kids and can't cover when the schools shut down then... well, your fecked. I assume its the same for most US/UK business as we try to adopt the strategy of 'carry on as normal'.
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In the UK you're entitled to dependents leave
 
Nogbadthebad said:
If numbers are so important, why have they

a) stopped testing anyone who isn't actually in hospital with symptoms, and

b) told anyone at home with symptoms they don't even need to know you are ill and not report it.
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They’ve moved to sampling. Estimate ranges with 95% confidence are more than good enough for planning in this scenario now you are no longer trying to react to each symptomatic patient. There’s zero value in knowing everyone infected right now and is a complete waste of resource to even bother trying.
 
Sweet Square said:
If this is the case why have they only banned them now ? What brand new information have they received within 24 hours that has told them there would now be an impact on services, when it's been clear for weeks that services are always going to be under a huge strain. Again does it not worry you that the FA has a better reading on the virus than the British government ?
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I don't agree with the last sentence, but let's put that aside.

I have no idea about capacity, but if you look at the video Boris says it's right Scotland start banning events now, because of emergency services, and the same may happen in the rest of the UK soon. There is probably some metric they are looking at, but no one outside the inner workings of government has that information.
 
0le said:
Russia does whatever the feck they want to be honest so I wouldn't be confident either way.
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Well until we see otherwise, maybe like in Iran, then maybe just go along with what people are saying?

Last report I seen was on the 1st of March about the coronavirus in Ufa, which is the 10th largest city in Russia, and Bashkortostan is the most populous republic in the Russian Federation.

It was about a group of Chinese workers coming from China and showing symptoms of the coronavirus, they were quarantined straight away. There is the link to the post.

https://vk.com/wall-115466005_75269
 
Smores said:
I'm sorry bit they really don't need a spin to sell news right now. You told me it was almost pointless just yesterday and defended the delay and accused other countries of gesturing with these same measures.

Christ if you lot arguing about timing truly meant one day later would be fine then god bless you what a waste of time.
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I was defending the overall strategy, I'd much rather things would carry on. I understand there comes a point where it makes sense stuff should shut down, but I think that time period should be as short as possible.

I was never specifically talking about large sporting events/gatherings, and these are naturally the first things to go.
 
WPMUFC said:
completely off topic, but that headline perfectly encapsulates why humans are a doomed species. Whether biological, Climate Change etc: short term economic numbers > literal survival :lol::(
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There is no danger of the human species being wiped out. In general, "survival" actually depends quite a lot on the economy, for example ensuring the NHS survives both through any pandemic and after it as well as providing the necessary funding to study the virus.
 
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