SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Anustart89 said:
Even if he is, do you think all concerned friends should call into the ICU to check up on him? I mean, he's probably got lots of concerned friends. Do you think that nurses and doctors should spend their time on the phone or by the patient's side?
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If the president of the USA phones then yeah. You answer the fecking phone.
 
Dumbstar said:
Don't be surprised if Bojo's partner opts for the experimental Remsdivir injection from Gilead (screw HCL). As he's a PM, he'll have privileged access to it, rightfully so. Good advert for Gilead too if it works. Hush, Hush if it doesn't.
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You are right. He will probably get remdesivir. Another one we don't know if works or not. He probably will also get convalescent covid plasma.
 
Garethw said:
Or maybe he’s just a concerned friend?
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Likely to have called someone at the US embassy or someone from BJ's PR team. Trump is a stranger to the truth. Very unlikely he'd have a doctors number.
 
Utd heap said:
Got no interest or joy in the geezer dying but a fecking clap? Get stuffed.
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Indeed. Not going to wish death on him, but fecked if I’m clapping for a racist, homophobic leader of a party who laugh at the idea of poor people having to beg for food from food banks. I’ll save that for the sick and dead frontline workers who might not be either of those things if the NHS had enough supplies.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Both drugs being used to treat COVID. Won’t know which one works better (or works at all) until we get some RCT results.
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Here in USA no one is using chloroquine as far as I am aware. Probably because chloroquine is not easily available here.

On a related note:

 
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do.ob said:
It wasn't aimed in the slightest against doctors. I meant it purely in a macro sense. Where I assume ICU personnel usually have to divide their attention and resources between several patients (or worse, if they got hit hard by the virus), I assume that BoJo as PM will either already have a dedicated doctor or someone in a suit will pull a doctor and tell them they have basically one patient now.
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Obviously, you could be right, but I honestly have a hard time seeing, considering the scheduling nightmares that the opening of x number of new ICUs has caused, that they can just pull another three teams (to cover 24 hours a day 7 days per week) of doctors and nurses out of that schedule to care for one patient. That assumes that those people have been sitting on their arses up until now, which I can't really see. If they're pulling them out of the regular schedule to care for him and him alone, then they are going to stretch the others much further and potentially harm other patients.

And despite my perspective being that of a doctor's, don't forget the nurses in all of this. They're at the patient's side more than we are (and have fewer patients assigned to them as a result), and they do a massive job with these patients.

Also, taking care of a patient with a respiratory problem doesn't require you to do things every minute. You often end up altering the settings on the ventilator, and then you wait 45 minutes and take a blood sample to evaluate the effect of that change (if not immediately apparent), so it really doesn't require 24/7 attention from a doctor's POV. Most of the time you can only react to deteriorations in the condition, so you might end up doing nothing for x hours if the patient's condition is stable.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Both drugs being used to treat COVID. Won’t know which one works better (or works at all) until we get some RCT results.
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If these drugs are already in use then the likelihood of side-effects is surely known and likely not to be critical?
 
Sultan said:
If these drugs are already in use then the likelihood of side-effects is surely known and likely not to be critical?
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Cuz unless you do a randomized trial you don't know what's happening because of drug vs because of disease. Comparing 2 groups is the key.
 
sammsky1 said:
I've had that feeling since last night. VDO below (shared a few days ago by @Raoul) easily explains how the virus evolves and wreaks his havoc, once it enters your body. Generally speaking, its not a major threat for vast vast majority of people. But when it becomes a problem, you are in serious trouble. The numbers also back that up.

My sister told me a few days ago the degradation post ICU can be very rapid and that she's overseen patients die within a few hours after entering ICU. There is very little doctors can do, aside from make you more comfortable, buy your immune system some extra time via a ventilator, and hope your body can repair itself.

The language in the Press Release is written by savvy spin doctors, trying their best to make it sound least alarming as possible. But Im in no doubt, BoJo has entered the genuine problem phase, and could be just hours away from his end.

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Excellent video, everyone should watch it.
 
mav_9me said:
Cuz unless you do a randomized trial you don't know what's happening because of drug vs because of disease. Comparing 2 groups is the key.
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You won’t know about disease specific side effects without a comparator but he’s right that we know a hell of a lot about their overall safety profile, which makes them a relatively safe option compared to the alternatives.
 
Fully Fledged said:
If the president of the USA phones then yeah. You answer the fecking phone.
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Bollocks. Are you seriously suggesting that healthcare professionals should stop what they're doing to inform a non-relative of his condition, just because he's a little curious and he happens to call himself a friend of his? Do we know if he'd have wanted that? Where do you draw the line? Should they stop to answer questions if Macron calls? Merkel? Löfven? Putin? Xi? His neighbour? The cleaning lady?

There are channels for that info and IMO none of them should be Trump calling straight into the ICU. Give the poor man some fecking privacy in his critical illness for feck's sake.

Now, I really think Trump's full of shit and he hasn't done any of that, but anyway.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You won’t know about disease specific side effects without a comparator but he’s right that we know a hell of a lot about their overall safety profile, which makes them a relatively safe option compared to the alternatives.
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What I mean is chloroquine was active in vitro against ebola virus. However in the trial patients who got chloroquine did worse. Not sure what outcomes they measured. But my point is you are right we know more about chloroquine and hcq and nowhere near enough about remdesivir but when it comes to specific diseases you just don't know how things workout without RCTs.

Are you icu or ED or general medicine?
 
sammsky1 said:
Can they administer all of them and hope for the best?
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You don't want to do that. Too much potential for side effects particularly when you don't even know the efficacy of treatment to begin with.
 
Fully Fledged said:
If the president of the USA phones then yeah. You answer the fecking phone.
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The President of the USA is not allowed to call anyone and especially any foreign leader without the proper protocol. Neither is a foreign leader allowed to answer it without the correct protocol.
 
mav_9me said:
You don't want to do that. Too much potential for side effects particularly when you don't even know the efficacy of treatment to begin with.
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Even if PM's life is hanging by a thread? Last chance saloon?
 
sammsky1 said:
Even if PM's life is hanging by a thread? Last chance saloon?
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Most definitely not. Remember we don't know any of these work to begin with.

Doesnt mean they give hydroxychloroquine and stop. They will try other options I would imagine like remdesivir and convalescent covid plasma. Point is just not all together at the same time.
 
Anustart89 said:
Bollocks. Are you seriously suggesting that healthcare professionals should stop what they're doing to inform a non-relative of his condition, just because he's a little curious and he happens to call himself a friend of his? Do we know if he'd have wanted that? Where do you draw the line? Should they stop to answer questions if Macron calls? Merkel? Löfven? Putin? Xi? His neighbour? The cleaning lady?

There are channels for that info and IMO none of them should be Trump calling straight into the ICU. Give the poor man some fecking privacy in his critical illness for feck's sake.

Now, I really think Trump's full of shit and he hasn't done any of that, but anyway.
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Yeah. If they are saving someones life then not so much but if you have a minute.
 
Foxbatt said:
The President of the USA is not allowed to call anyone and especially any foreign leader without the proper protocol. Neither is a foreign leader allowed to answer it without the correct protocol.
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We are talking about Trump. Protocol goes out the window.
 
Wish him well, partly because I fear whoever replaces him would be much worse, but also because it would be a terrible thing for the baby to never get to meet its father, even if that father is a rather morally dubious man at times. That and he's a human being - one who might even learn something from the experience at that.
 
Laura K saying the word is Boris hasn't needed a ventilator yet but was moved to ICU in case he needs one overnight.
 
sullydnl said:
Laura K saying the word is Boris hasn't needed a ventilator yet but was moved to ICU in case he needs one overnight.
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Haven’t they been playing down his symptoms since he was first diagnosed though? It was being reported he was still working only this morning.
 
Samid said:
Enlighten us. I know there was some nasty stuff happening in the girls' bathroom in high school (used tampons in the toilet paper holder and such stuff). But in general I refuse to believe that women are anywhere near as careless as men when it comes to washing hands etc.
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We tested men’s vs women’s restrooms for bacteria for a biology lab when I was in college. The women’s in every building on campus were dirtier than the men’s.
 
UncleBob said:
I don't think you fully understand the point here. The consequences of the solution they wanted to opt for was easy to see from day one given the development in other countries, and it was piss easy to point out the obvious mistakes as well...And the poster you're quoting has been consistently wrong on the subject of covid-19
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love how everyone is a genius armchair scientific advisor... after the fact. If it was ‘easy to see’ from day one (ie before the Italy numbers) then why did the chief scientific officer fail to see it? Is he that inept? The fact is there were and are a number of potential tactics in dealing with this. Looking back then yes the government got it wrong, once the data from Italy was fed in that was clear, but they at least then changed their tactic immediately. They were working on the numbers in their modelling and making decisions on that basis. But the inevitable failings as a result of that initial bad data/modelling go far beyond Boris Johnson. You think he was making those decisions himself? To lump all the blame on Boris is just agenda driven nonsense. And I’m a labour supporter ffs
 
stepic said:
love how everyone is a genius armchair scientific advisor... after the fact. If it was ‘easy to see’ from day one (ie before the Italy numbers) then why did the chief scientific officer fail to see it? Is he that inept? The fact is there were and are a number of potential tactics in dealing with this. Looking back then yes the government got it wrong in, once the data from Italy was fed in, but they at least then changed their tactic immediately. They were working on the numbers in their modelling and making decisions on that basis. But the inevitable failings as a result of that initial bad data go far beyond Boris Johnson. You think he was making those decisions himself? To lump all the blame on Boris is just agenda driven nonsense. And I’m a labour supporter ffs
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The chief scientific officer failed to see it because they were modelling the wrong disease for a start. There was plentiful evidence coming from China, Singapore, South Korea ,Iran, Italy, the WHO. Our advisers came up with a plan that Cummings and the other laughing cavaliers liked, not one that was actually based on any evidence or common sense. Plenty of people criticised their ridiculous strategy before, during and after the fact, not least the previous chief scientific officer. Also all these folks:

https://www.ft.com/content/f3136d0a-663e-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3

Ultimately, having inadequate experts and civil servants dealing with the problem is a responsibility that can only lie at the feet of the government that's been in power for the last 10 years and which was famously tired of experts.
 
mav_9me said:
Here in USA no one is using hydroxychloroquine as far as I am aware. Probably because chloroquine is not easily available here.

On a related note:

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I think a lot are using it. Just that in the USA it is known with its brand name as Plaquenil.
 
Hellboy said:
https://www.jrseco.com/european-uni...rn-of-potential-serious-health-effects-of-5g/
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https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/190005/emf-test-summary.pdf

https://fullfact.org/health/5G-not-accelerating-coronavirus/

Fullfact
Like the previous generations of wireless network technology (4G, 3G and 2G), 5G mobile data is transmitted over radio waves.

Radio waves are a small part of a wider electromagnetic spectrum of waves, which all emit energy called electromagnetic radiation. Radio waves are found at the low-frequency end of the spectrum and—alongside microwaves, visible light and heat—only produce non-ionising radiation. This means that these waves cannot damage the DNA inside cells, which is how waves with higher frequencies (such as x-rays, gamma rays and ultraviolet light) are thought to cause cancer.
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Revan said:
I think a lot are using it. Just that in the USA it is known with its brand name as Plaquenil.
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Yes. I made a mistake. Edited my post. Meant to only talk about chloroquine.

We are using hcq on everyone who has hypoxia.
 
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