Sorry for your loss.
Was there an initial post-mortem where they ruled covid and then changed their mind later?
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Was there an initial post-mortem where they ruled covid and then changed their mind later?
It would be rather simple for the government message to communicate how to properly wear a mask for protection rather then discount them for over 10 weeks. Yet now they make them mandatory for public transport.
If that is not an unclear and confusing message then I don't know what is.
I dont know about Spain but Italy does count all care home and in home deaths, at least the ones they know about. At the beginning they couldn't keep up so excess deaths should be mostly from that period.
Anyone know or heard about safety at swimming pools as things open up? Effects of chlorine, water, etc.?
I read before that it doesn't really spread in water but don't take my word on that. I would imagine the spread would be more likely to take place in the changing rooms. I suppose people touch their face more when they swim so that could also be a possible area where infection spreads.
Yes sir.
I read that in France when they opened outdoor pools they said the chlorine kills Covid successfully, and they were opening with no change rooms
No they don't. They're regularly publishing analysis documents looking at overall mortality vs Covid mortality - the latest update goes to the end of April. Here, although only in Italian - https://www.istat.it/it/files//2020/06/Rapp_Istat_Iss_3Giugno.pdf
One of the more interesting things in there is that deaths of other causes reduce according to how badly affected an area was by the virus.
feck. Delete this. If Trump ever gets wind of this post , he will be recommending people drink chlorine to prevent Corona.
How's the situation?
Grim. No national health. Very little equipment and oxygen is in severe shortage.
My partner media trains the president before the daily press conference so he doesn't go off script or say something stupid for the press to scrutinise.
The situation is a lot worse than is being reported.
There's people dying in the streets and hospitals have patients sitting outside the building in beds and chairs of varying sizes. It's like wacky races.
They still do or at least have done so up until very recently. The pdf is dated 4th of June, two days ago.
NY Times have still yet to get this data while every other European country is fully up to date. There's other separate articles using the data to 31st of March where it ends. People looking into this in May came up short with data only available to the 31st of March, not surprising if only April's data came out two days ago, assuming it's in there.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...gher-than-reported-stats-office-idUSKBN22G1WM
"Of the 25,354 “excess deaths”, the coronavirus was registered by the Civil Protection Agency as the official cause for 13,710, leaving around 11,600 deaths unaccounted for. These occurred overwhelmingly in the northern part of Italy most heavily hit by the virus."
This is where the data stopped for these people trying to research it in May, point was April's data wasn't available. Can you tell me what the excess deaths are for April then now that is seemingly available?
Just seeing pictures of the protests in London and Manchester... not much evidence of social distancing... can't help but think an infection spike is inevitable
Very sorry to hear that mate, lost my mother start of lockdown. Never a good time to go through stuff like that but this is all heaped ontop. Stay strong pal
Yeah, which means all the excess deaths are from covid, and it is actually discounting the toll still. The missed cancer appointments and the like will only show later.
First time I saw April numbers for Bergamo. Thanks! So in total March+April about 0.6% of Bergamo population died from covid.
16.000 for April.
Where did you read this? It's odd that smaller areas like this (in comparison to Manchester, Liverpool etc) would have such big numbers.
Being both indoors and unmasked, this might be possibly worse in impact than the protests
It’s per-capita I think. Barrow is the worst hit place in the UK in that regard.
My mother's brother died on Sunday. He had underlying issues but covid fired the final shot.
I didn't know him much since he stopped talking to us after becoming a landlord millionaire in the early 90's.
I didn't know him much since he stopped talking to us after becoming a landlord millionaire in the early 90's.
Damn, I heard it was bad but I didn’t know it was that bad.
You never know unless you are amongst as most governments use statisticians to fiddle the figures. So it would be expected that 3rd world or developing nations to go even further in this.
It can be annoying how Manchester styles itself as the capital of the northwest, and outsiders believe it. There is no capital.
As for Blackpool and Barrow, they certainly have a higher level of poverty than average. Also a much lower percentage on non-whites. Maybe people are barking up the wrong tree by linking ethnicity to a high covid death rate and they should be looking at poverty instead? I don't want to jump to conclusions, there's been far too much of that as it is, but it's worth considering.
I‘ve always suspected it was a class thing, or at least that would be the most significant contributor. The comparisons should have been to poor white communities for a clearer picture. Barrow is the armpit of the Lake District. It‘s a post industrial community with more similarities to urban centres than the rest of the Lake District that people visit.
It's the per capita numbers that show the effect rather than the raw case/death figures.
Sky have a per capita map at:
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-hotspots-and-how-your-area-compares-11999237
Looking from the outside, Blackpool can be expected to some extent. Lots of retirees to contribute to the death rate. Lot of low wage and seasonal/zero hours contracts workers and people living in HMOs etc to boost the case numbers.
Cumbria is more surprising on the face of it. I've heard it suggested that it's because the shipyard kept working that the case numbers grew fast early on. One aspect of the relatively low total numbers though is that relatively small variations in local test availability and hospital admission procedures could just mean that a bigger proportion of cases was identified. I've not seen a proper analysis/explanation so far. It would be an interesting read if anyone has done one.
I don’t think many people understand the oxygen shortage thing, with so much focus on ITU bed capacity. Once you run out of oxygen you’ll get mild/moderate cases ending up too tired to breath for themselves. And that’s when ventilator demand goes exponential. By all accounts at least one UK hospital ran out of oxygen during this current surge. I know an Irish hospital also came very close. These are the fine margins we’re working with. And oxygen stocks are in demand globally.
Another fecking horror story is the finite supply of ITU drugs. Especially the drugs needed for palliative care. Once again, there are finite supplies and fragile supply chains. If demand suddenly spikes hospitals can run out of stock very quickly. As it stands, if a patient is too old/fragile to go on a ventilator (or in a scenario where we run out of ventilators) the only option is to palliate. Give lots of oxygen (oops!) and a cocktail of potent painkillers and relaxants to help them slip away without too much obvious distress. Take away these drugs and what people will go through in their last few hours and days doesn’t bear thinking about.
And there is EUROMOMO that provides it all the time and is easily accessible.
The BAME high death rate is there in the stats irrespective of income, social class and job title. It's why the analysis needs to dig deeper.
I think it would be good for people to know how bad it could be if the NHS gets overwhelmed. I'd like to know how horrible it could be and maybe it would stop some people taking the lockdown as a holiday and general jolly with mates and family.
Believe me, I try.
Half my Facebook contacts are now medical experts and half my real friends are the same.
Apparently Bill Gates is the new Hitler ffs.
So much shite getting spread right now from anxious people who qualified for the mini version of brain on release.
As a nation, I feel we are too ill disciplined and selfish for people to generally not do what they want.
Knowing the worst possible way to die from Covid-19, which I assume would be similar to suffocating to death but slowly, wouldn't deter people from doing what they want. 3-4 weeks ago too many people stopped giving a feck, fatigue arrived, Cummings happened, and that was that. Just my opinion
That's sounds awful. And basically what we were concerned about when we left Ethiopia in March.
Take care over there.
Well that's terrifying. Cheers Pogue.
I hear you. Do these people who are so concerned about being tracked by Bill Gates's fictional microchip injections not stop for a moment and realise that they have already willingly allowed Facebook/Twitter/Google access to every piece of information about themselves so that they have a platform to post these conspiracy theories? Probably from a Microsoft OS in many cases?
I wonder if politics also plays some part. These were massively Leave voting areas, where apparently a good deal of the population had 'had enough of experts'. How much does peoples uninformed 'it's just a flu' or 'scamdemic' rhetoric play a part in how seriously different areas take this, and in turn how that affects the spread?
As I was writing it I kept thinking “too morbid?” but got up a head of steam and had to see it through.They have youtube. And the proof is when 'they' remove the truth.
I was gonna start a new conspiracy stating that Congo recorded 5 cases of Ebola. But I doubt they'll believe me that 6g caused it.
Maybe wait a few months.
The report basically says that in March they haven't a clue who died from what, but by April they were on top of it and there were very few excess deaths of an unknown cause.
The reason for the reduction in other deaths is thought to be for two reasons; Covid had already killed in March a number of those who were likely to die in April anyway, and in March the hospitals were so busy that people were dying of other things who shouldn't be. By April hospitals had gotten regular treatments back under control and those figures dropped.
I dont think Italy is too concerned whether the NY times can update its graphic or not. Theyve moved away from constant speculative updates and have been doing less frequent but properly researched reports for the last month or two.