And not a brain cell between themMost of them are PhD students
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Why would anyone even suspect that a vaccine would affect fertility?
Ok, yeah, that definitely happens. The toxicity of social media. Choose a side and abuse “the enemy”. Everyone wants to score points. Nobody wants to find common ground. It’s a huge problem and is going to hinder the roll out of the vaccine.
There's already very little non-essential international travel going on.
Much reduced but still as much as 15% of normal. The good thing is that as it is much reduced already moving to only returning citizens and residents with compulsory guarded quarantine would be less of a big deal than before.
Still unworkable. As well as the obvious issue re freight, people travel within the EU for all sorts of essential reasons that wouldn’t function with compulsory quarantine. Commuting to and from another country to work, for example.
In Ireland we have some major power stations that require regular maintenance by engineers that live in the UK. How does that work with guarded quarantine every time they cross a border?
There is a big difference between allowing freight transport and allowing a load of fecking idiots to go skiing or backpacking. Especially when said idiots can't be trusted to follow instructions and behave while they are away. As usual a group or twats spoil it for those who would follow the rules.
Why not? Not that it would, but why wouldn't it be a legitimate question? I am sure there were times many people thought certain things had no links but later found they did. Some people, like me, are not educated enough in the field and are (perhaps selfishly) thinking about things only from their perspective. Yes saving people is of course important, but also one of the things high on my list is hopefully starting a family soon so it's on my mind. Maybe if you asked me last year or after a kid I wouldn't have even had this thought.
There will be many people who have other questions that don't even cross my mind. For example, people asked about allergic reactions which never for a second crossed my mind as I assumed they'd be OK and also I am not allergic to anything. There was also a story about people who had some form of cosmetic surgery, again it doesn't impact me so I never for a second thought about it - but those people would have had questions.
People will have questions based on what is happening with their lives, I don't think it's wrong to ask questions for peace of mind. It is wrong though to not ask and either blindly follow or blindly go against. The other important thing is to ask the right people, and several of them - this is another battle of legitimate vs fake news of course
I despise social media, I am on it but out of necessity it feels. Not to derail the topic, but it's why I despise cancel culture or trial by social media. There is never any room for debate. Everything is black and white, nothing is grey.... unless it involves them of course
I keep hearing this. Why can’t they close it to everything apart from supply chain?
International travel is not allowed from a Tier 4 area, other than for one of a few limited reasons.
All those ski trips are flying out from somewhere.
im on a Fuerteventura forum group. There were hundreds of people saying they were going for Christmas & January. It’s all closed to them now otherwise they would have arrived in massive groups
I cannot believe that Boris hasn't come out yet and said we are going into a national lockdown.
Some areas are in T4 yes, and in others this new variant is not going through the roof - YET....why wait another week or two for it to really get going? I can't help but feel that the Government have not learnt their lesson from March.
We keep hearing that the Vaccine is the way out, so I thought I'd check up on some numbers and see what that looks like.
According to Age Discrimination who got the info from the Govt, there are are around 8.7 million over 70s in the UK...and according to KingsFund.Org.Uk, there are 15m people in the UK living with an underlying health condition with no cure.
So, in a completely non-scientific manner, let's say that 12m people need to be vaccinated ASAP, and in that number let's include NHS front line, Care home staff, and I suspect soon, Teachers.
The first UK vaccine was given on 8th December, and to date, let's assume (going off official figures and time since) that 750,000 people have received their first dose.and they ha
Now let's say, Oxford Vaccine gets the greenlight tomorrow, and they have 20m doses ready.....we are looking a minimum 3 month window to get those 12m done, and be in a position where we can loosen restrictions more and not be worrying about number of hospitalisations and deaths....and that 3 months is ONLY possible if everything runs SUPER smooth and we increase the number of vaccines given per day.
Please note these are rough calcs based on nothing....but the point I'm making is, that from where we are, we are not in a position to be putting off lockdown because we think a magical solution is going to save us in a week.
If we had a political system where those in power were actually held accountable, the likes of Boris, Gove and Hancock should be facing long stretches in jail imo
Some areas are in T4 yes, and in others this new variant is not going through the roof - YET....why wait another week or two for it to really get going? I can't help but feel that the Government have not learnt their lesson from March.
We keep hearing that the Vaccine is the way out, so I thought I'd check up on some numbers and see what that looks like.
According to Age Discrimination who got the info from the Govt, there are are around 8.7 million over 70s in the UK...and according to KingsFund.Org.Uk, there are 15m people in the UK living with an underlying health condition with no cure.
So, in a completely non-scientific manner, let's say that 12m people need to be vaccinated ASAP, and in that number let's include NHS front line, Care home staff, and I suspect soon, Teachers.
The first UK vaccine was given on 8th December, and to date, let's assume (going off official figures and time since) that 750,000 people have received their first dose.and they ha
Now let's say, Oxford Vaccine gets the greenlight tomorrow, and they have 20m doses ready.....we are looking a minimum 3 month window to get those 12m done, and be in a position where we can loosen restrictions more and not be worrying about number of hospitalisations and deaths....and that 3 months is ONLY possible if everything runs SUPER smooth and we increase the number of vaccines given per day.
Please note these are rough calcs based on nothing....but the point I'm making is, that from where we are, we are not in a position to be putting off lockdown because we think a magical solution is going to save us in a week.
If we had a political system where those in power were actually held accountable, the likes of Boris, Gove and Hancock should be facing long stretches in jail imo
Why would you think that a vaccine would make you infertile? There is no history of vaccines making you infertile. You might as well worry that a vaccine would give you liver cancer or melanoma or any other random thing you can think of. Just odd to settle on that worry.
Wow
What's the overall case numbers for the UK now if it was 100k cases around March/April as speculated? 15m impacted in some way with covid who now have antibodies in some form?
But who's saying that is my 'only' worry? I worry about my liver as I am someone who has a weaker liver than most people and am constantly checked - I can't take certain medicine's cos of it. It's also not an odd concern, infertility I would imagine is not an immediate side effect but something that would be known about in a few years - hence the slight (even if ridiculous) concern. Again, I speak as someone who has no science background, so this is why I ask the questions. Rather than just blindly assuming that a vaccine which hasn't been trialled for years or whatever will cause it, I think it's fair to ask a question and be put to ease and explained why it's not an issue than not ask because I fear someone will think I'm stupid.
I've always believed in asking questions if I don't understand or want some clarity, no matter how stupid they sound. I would never learn otherwise - I can either ask Google or someone who knows more in the field than me, whatever it is. It's how you learn at school, it's how you learn in a social environment, it's how you learn at work etc. There is nothing wrong with asking questions - I've had many people ask me questions which I think are ridiculous, obvious or odd but I always answer them sincerely if I can see they are genuinely curious/trying to learn. I actually appreciate that more than someone making up their own mind on something they don't understand and making mistakes.
In this case, as I have said, me and many of my friends expressed this concern separately. if none of us asked questions and just instead fed each other our fears it would be worse. I would rather go ask questions, find out and then share
March/April was a massive underestimation because only hospitalised patients were getting tested. That hasn’t been the case for a while now. Obviously the “true” number of cases will be a lot higher than the official stats but nowhere near to the same extent was it was in the first wave.
It is. Those that might not align with my thinking are free to disagree but I’d be well within my right to ask them: what exactly do you want? If you are to go shopping, then wearing a mask, forming orderly queues, keeping your distance and not acting like a cretin for (often stressed) staff is about as good as it gets. By and large, this is what I see.
I’m just not seeing this lack of compliance that others often express. I think it’s only right to highlight the positive choices people are making instead of actively seeking to highlight the negatives of a small minority. You will end up very angry otherwise; I’d rather save this anger for halfwits like Gavin Williamson, in truth.
Rates in Greater Manchester on the rise.
+24% for the region vs LW (Source: MEN, presuming they're more reliable on Covid reporting than United)
+24% for the region vs LW (Source: MEN, presuming they're more reliable on Covid reporting than United)
All I know is if I was to take a dozen random pictures of Belfast city centre just before Christmas you would not find 90% of people wearing masks in and out of shops, and if you have anyone in your family working in hospitality or retail you would have no shortage of stories every day of the pains they have to go to reminding people to put their masks on, keep their distance, etc. So again it's about the proportions you deem acceptable here. "By and large", "fantastic compliance" etc. are quite vague descriptions of quantitative measurements, so you might be seeing the same thing other people are seeing but describing it differently because they are imprecise descriptions on both sides, and you have different expectations.
Personally I would expect 100% adherence to masks by this point so 80%, while a big improvement on the summer, is still unacceptably poor. 90% is acceptable. 99% is fantastic. Imperfection is just a part of life. Social distancing is harder to say because they're context-dependent but I would say the majority in supermarkets I've been to don't make much effort to distance. There aren't mass crowds because there are fewer people but there are still people impatiently squeezing through busy aisles, some have no problem brushing up against you because they feel entitled to walk through that space at that time, and lots of people walk around as if they're unaware of their surroundings and the moment they're in.
I get the desire for normality. Many of the spaces we've been going to for years are shut off from us, so in the few places we're allowed to go back to we would like to act relatively normally, if we have to put on a mask then fine but I'm not going to space myself out on an escalator, wait for people to go past in the aisles, etc. That's how it comes across and it isn't an uncommon thing where I'm at.
The reality is we live in a global world and can see how other citizens have adhered. It is the case that many countries in the East have seen more rigorous adherence, and it has had a positive effect on transmission. They hold themselves to higher standards in this regard, in large part because the social pressure forces them to. That social pressure is uncomfortable but it isn't unkind. There is this idea that saying people are doing the wrong thing is unkind, but the counter-argument is that doing the wrong thing is itself unkind to other citizens.
I agree with you that there are a lot of people that seem unhealthily angry at the world, and seeking out that information verges on masochism at points. Then again I just assume that is mostly just their coping mechanism at the moment. We all have to have some kind of coping mechanism. It helps you cope to focus on most people complying but some people need a different kind of focus to help them get by. But I don't think pointing out the imperfections in society's response that you see in every day life are all like that. I'm not angry at people, but I think it's both necessary and healthy to expect more from our citizens at the moment. Things are getting worse so we need to make more sacrifices. That's unfortunate but true. You can blame the government while still demanding more from individuals.
That wasn’t my point though. I wasn’t saying we should listen to them. My point was that if people that “educated” can believe that kind of BS then no wonder so many other less-educated people are too.
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If we had a system where there was the remotest concept of personal responsibility then over half the citizens would be locked up. Trouble is our culture has degenerated to the point where we can always absolve our appalling behaviour by saying the fault lies with someone else. For example does it really need Boris or anyone else to tell us that we should stay local before we realise it’s the logical and sensible thing to do.
If we had a system where there was the remotest concept of personal responsibility then over half the citizens would be locked up. Trouble is our culture has degenerated to the point where we can always absolve our appalling behaviour by saying the fault lies with someone else. For example does it really need Boris or anyone else to tell us that we should stay local before we realise it’s the logical and sensible thing to do.
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Sorry - it’s a good point. But it depends who they hang around with that affects what they choose to believe to be honest, I’d like to think any intelligent person that can think independently would know vaccines have been a working method of preventing diseases for centuries and these conspiracy ideas about controlling the public etc. are just hilarious nonsense.
Any of the medical guys on here able to give a rough idea how many of the 41000 new cases yesterday will end up in hospital, or needing critical care for that matter.?
These figures are eye-watering, but I know we are doing way more testing than earlier in the year.
These figures are eye-watering, but I know we are doing way more testing than earlier in the year.
A very crude calculation is total positive tests vs total hospitalised which would be roughly around 10% obviously there is deaths and people that weren't tested or didn't go for one to take into account, also age of infected makes a huge difference.
A reasonable estimate would be between 5-10% i guess.
Lots of rumours school openings will be pushed back by a week in a lot of places. Fiance's a teacher in Hackney and keeping a keen eye on this, and these are the noises coming out of her union.
Yeah it really depends on the age profile of infections. This is the latest data released by the ONS up to the 13th December, where you have the the familiar diverging stories: most people getting infected are younger, but most people going to hospitals are older. Unfortunately, infections among the older age groups are increasing vs. the prior week. And we have every reason to expect infections among older people to increase the most over the holidays.
If we keep seeing more people 45+ getting infected then we will see larger proportions hospitalised and higher average mortality rates. The growing hospitalisation rate pre-Christmas for folks aged 85+ was a legitimate problem. For the week ending 29th November, for every 100,000 85+ year olds in the country, 139 of them were hospitalised with covid. The following week it had increased to 147, and the next week it had increased to 173. That was a couple of weeks pre-Christmas. They just weren't as well shielded as before.
If you take a rough overall estimate from cases and hospitalisation rate, there were 20k cases on the 8th December and 2,000 people hospitalised with covid on the 15th December (allowing for a c. 7-day lag). If you go back to the beginning of November, there were 16,000 cases on the 1st and and 1,700 hospitalisations on the 8th. So about 10% of people would go to hospital, and it varies somewhere in that 5-10% range depending on the age profile, the hospital situation etc. So the 40k cases a day would likely bring us up above our 3,000 hospitalisations a day peak from back in April, just next week, which fits with early reports of hospitals saying they're already above their peak.
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I doubt there will be another national lockdown as Boris had previously said it would be disastrous for the economy if that were to happen, so he’ll probably persist with the regional approach even if it ends up that all regions except the Shetland Isles are in Tier 5 or whatever.
Boris has made a u-turn basically every other day. You can’t take anything he says seriously.
I genuinely thought the Oxford vaccine would be approved today
Whether he calls it a national lockdown, or Tier 4/5....nearly everywhere in the UK will be in it Thursday or Friday imo
I don’t think they’ll do it this week personally. Think we’ll seem them persist with the tier system for another week or two unfortunately.
53K today. 414 deaths.
I think the only thing certain is the government will make the important decisions a week or so later than they should have been made, that's the consistent pattern.
Yeah pretty much.
This. It’s insane how much they continue to dither after all that’s happened.
