SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Felt very odd going into work this morning (we've gone back to working in bubbles), at least more so than it normally does after the Christmas break.

It feels like the UK is in a bit of a limbo phase with the new wave, and you can see how attitudes towards the virus can differ depending on where you work/what you do.

Cases are crazy high, and hospital admissions are climbing too, although those in the ICU appear to be relatively stable/on par with what things were like under Delta. So severity hasn't yet changed in terms of those suffering the worst. Fingers crossed this remains the case in the coming weeks.

Where it gets more muddled is when it comes to the strains that are being felt by key services and infrastructure. Given the amount of positive cases/close contacts, the anecdotal evidence I've received from close friends and family working in hospitals, GPs and schools is crazy. Schools in Hackney are basically where they were last year in terms of staff and community cases. On a side note, exams this year could be far more problematic further down the line than they were last year when there was at least national consensus on how to manage them. For the sake of these, further preventative measures would seem inevitable and justified in order to allow them to carry on operating as best they can.

Yet despite this, I do understand the absolute frustration many who have been boostered/previously had Covid have towards potential further lockdowns. Without government support, lockdowns are an absolute killer to businesses, livelihoods and opportunities. Given the amount we now know about the virus and what we have had to endure so far, it's difficult to comprehend a watertight argument in favour of further restrictions.

Based on what has been shared here/reported in the UK, the evidence so far does seem to point towards Omicron being very mild for those with the necessary protection, despite the high case numbers; and that those who are making it into the ICU/requiring critical care are largely comprised of those who are unvaccinated/highly vulnerable to similar infections (happy to be shown otherwise if not the case).

I can only see the divide between the vaccinated/anti-vaxxers growing. We are so unbelievably fortunate to be in a country that has the capacity to provide a range of different vaccines to its population, and it beggars belief to think there are those who are just throwing this opportunity away for the sake of their own selfish, misinformed delusions.

Yes it's vital that people make sacrifices in times of a crisis to protect our key infrastructure and services, but if this is a crisis that is being compounded simply by those too stubborn to get the necessary prevention to this disease, then it's getting harder and harder to feel sympathetic.

TL;DR - feck antivaxxers, the selfish cnuts.
 
Doubt it. Especially with classic symptoms. I believe that a typical PCR test can detect a single molecule of RNA in a microlitre of solution whereas the lateral flow antigen tests need a sample to contain probably tens of thousands of viral particles per microlitre to produce a positive result

There was something I read in the Lancet about poor nasopharyngeal sampling technique in young kids - in addition to young kids having very low viral loads + timing of testing possibly leading to a few more false negatives than would be expected but that's about it.
PCR labs are set to be quite sensitive, so it's unlikely to miss a symptomatic infection due to viral load. Timing can be odd though, some people can test positive (and be infectious) a couple of days before symptoms show up - and be negative when they test a day or so after the symptoms appear.

Field trials of PCR tests done at home or outside a lab/hospital environment suggest problems with swabs aren't that uncommon either - with more than 5% of infected people getting a false negative result. Maybe down to something the person ate/drank or whatever, or the way the swab was handled or some contaminant that spoiled the swab or the test.

Cheers. I suppose another question then is, is it at all likely that you would be extremely symptomatic, with a viral load that was too low for antigen detection, and completely shed by the time you got your PCR(even though some symptoms remained at time of PCR)? Trying to make sense of my results, I'm triple vaccinated, if it makes a difference.
 
Felt very odd going into work this morning (we've gone back to working in bubbles), at least more so than it normally does after the Christmas break.

It feels like the UK is in a bit of a limbo phase with the new wave, and you can see how attitudes towards the virus can differ depending on where you work/what you do.

Cases are crazy high, and hospital admissions are climbing too, although those in the ICU appear to be relatively stable/on par with what things were like under Delta. So severity hasn't yet changed in terms of those suffering the worst. Fingers crossed this remains the case in the coming weeks.

Where it gets more muddled is when it comes to the strains that are being felt by key services and infrastructure. Given the amount of positive cases/close contacts, the anecdotal evidence I've received from close friends and family working in hospitals, GPs and schools is crazy. Schools in Hackney are basically where they were last year in terms of staff and community cases. On a side note, exams this year could be far more problematic further down the line than they were last year when there was at least national consensus on how to manage them. For the sake of these, further preventative measures would seem inevitable and justified in order to allow them to carry on operating as best they can.

Yet despite this, I do understand the absolute frustration many who have been boostered/previously had Covid have towards potential further lockdowns. Without government support, lockdowns are an absolute killer to businesses, livelihoods and opportunities. Given the amount we now know about the virus and what we have had to endure so far, it's difficult to comprehend a watertight argument in favour of further restrictions.

Based on what has been shared here/reported in the UK, the evidence so far does seem to point towards Omicron being very mild for those with the necessary protection, despite the high case numbers; and that those who are making it into the ICU/requiring critical care are largely comprised of those who are unvaccinated/highly vulnerable to similar infections (happy to be shown otherwise if not the case).

I can only see the divide between the vaccinated/anti-vaxxers growing. We are so unbelievably fortunate to be in a country that has the capacity to provide a range of different vaccines to its population, and it beggars belief to think there are those who are just throwing this opportunity away for the sake of their own selfish, misinformed delusions.

Yes it's vital that people make sacrifices in times of a crisis to protect our key infrastructure and services, but if this is a crisis that is being compounded simply by those too stubborn to get the necessary prevention to this disease, then it's getting harder and harder to feel sympathetic.

TL;DR - feck antivaxxers, the selfish cnuts.
It's in interesting narrative that has developed for our covid related problems.

The pressure on the NHS is mainly down to shortage of staff, because staff are getting infected and need to isolate/recover (even fully vaccinated).

Same in Schools with teachers and staff with kids taking time out to isolate too.

Also interesting how little focus or "blame" is directed at large countries developing and storing dangerous viruses and bacteria for military/scientific purposes. E.g. Wuhan in China, Porton Down in the UK, as is done by most countries. Shouldn't we make sure these activities are more stringently regulated globally to reduce the chance of another potential breach?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57268111

TLDR: if we were 100% vaccinated we would be experiencing very similar problems.
 
Last edited:
That Eric Ding references his own Tweets as if he’s a celeb. Refers to his ‘HMOG’ (Holy Mother of God) tweet he sent at beginning of pandemic fairly often. 80% sure he now thinks he was the guy who discovered covid
 
Cheers. I suppose another question then is, is it at all likely that you would be extremely symptomatic, with a viral load that was too low for antigen detection, and completely shed by the time you got your PCR(even though some symptoms remained at time of PCR)? Trying to make sense of my results, I'm triple vaccinated, if it makes a difference.

Based on what you’re saying most likely scenario is that you have an upper respiratory tract infection that isn’t covid.
 
Based on what you’re saying most likely scenario is that you have an upper respiratory tract infection that isn’t covid.
Maybe that is the case, but in the 7 day period before becoming sick, my only indoor contact outside of my family was with friends 1 night, where someone was confirmed to have had covid the next day. Most people from that night ended up with covid, with their symptoms progressing at the same rate as mine(same symptoms too). It just seems unfathomably coincidental that I somehow got a different infection from everyone else in this scenario?
 
I got an email from 'Test and trace' just after Christmas telling me because of my 'recent positive PCR' I need to isolate. I never even took a PCR, so I ignored it.

Then on Friday I got an email from someone claiming to be from Bristol City Council asking me to contact test and trace again. I told her I've not tested positive and asked where she got the info. She said test and trace gave them the info and that I had a positive PCR on Christmas Day. I replied "Stop scamming people" and left it.

Today I've had a knock on the door. Some guy asks for me by name and hands me a bit of paper stapled to a 'Testing and Isolating' form. The paper says 'For the attention of.......' and doesn't have my name written. It's marked as BCC and says they've been trying to contact me. I tell the guy at the door that I've not even taken a PCR, let alone tested positive. He says to call them and let them know.

I call the Welfare and Engagement team number and the woman on the phone is very confused. Cannot find my details on the system and says she will speak to her manager and call me back.

I'm so confused :lol: Still not 100% confident it isn't one big scam.
 
Maybe that is the case, but in the 7 day period before becoming sick, my only indoor contact outside of my family was with friends 1 night, where someone was confirmed to have had covid the next day. Most people from that night ended up with covid, with their symptoms progressing at the same rate as mine(same symptoms too). It just seems unfathomably coincidental that I somehow got a different infection from everyone else in this scenario?

Ah. Ok. I see where you’re coming from The other thing to consider would be testing technique. Are you swabbing yourself? Or have you had an expert do it? Unless you get right up in there you can easily miss something. I’ve also heard that a swab to the back of the throat can sometimes pick up virus missed when you only swab the nose.
 
Ah. Ok. I see where you’re coming from The other thing to consider would be testing technique. Are you swabbing yourself? Or have you had an expert do it? Unless you get right up in there you can easily miss something. I’ve also heard that a swab to the back of the throat can sometimes pick up virus missed when you only swab the nose.
I was swabbing myself, but I was going halfway to my brain, so I don't think I was doing it wrong. I also tried 1 antigen swabbing the throat after the nose also after hearing that same tip for Omicron. The cherry on top is the negative PCR I got(tested 5 days into symptoms). This is why I am asking about some very edge case scenario, it just makes zero sense that I had anything other than covid last week.
 
I was swabbing myself, but I was going halfway to my brain, so I don't think I was doing it wrong. I also tried 1 antigen swabbing the throat after the nose also after hearing that same tip for Omicron. The cherry on top is the negative PCR I got(tested 5 days into symptoms). This is why I am asking about some very edge case scenario, it just makes zero sense that I had anything other than covid last week.

I guess you should apply Occam’s Razor. Assume you have covid. False negatives are relatively common. PCR and LFTs.
 
I guess you should apply Occam’s Razor. Assume you have covid. False negatives are relatively common. PCR and LFTs.
That is what I've come to alright, I am 8 days in, so I think once I'm testing negative I'm ok to resume normal life.
 
I got an email from 'Test and trace' just after Christmas telling me because of my 'recent positive PCR' I need to isolate. I never even took a PCR, so I ignored it.

Then on Friday I got an email from someone claiming to be from Bristol City Council asking me to contact test and trace again. I told her I've not tested positive and asked where she got the info. She said test and trace gave them the info and that I had a positive PCR on Christmas Day. I replied "Stop scamming people" and left it.

Today I've had a knock on the door. Some guy asks for me by name and hands me a bit of paper stapled to a 'Testing and Isolating' form. The paper says 'For the attention of.......' and doesn't have my name written. It's marked as BCC and says they've been trying to contact me. I tell the guy at the door that I've not even taken a PCR, let alone tested positive. He says to call them and let them know.

I call the Welfare and Engagement team number and the woman on the phone is very confused. Cannot find my details on the system and says she will speak to her manager and call me back.

I'm so confused :lol: Still not 100% confident it isn't one big scam.

Somebody else putting your contact details in so T&T can't enforce the isolation if they test positive? They only check the name vs the ID when you do the test, not the address or contact details.

It would be a 'smart' way to find out if you have Covid without the obligation to isolate if the result isn't what you want. Put your own name and phone number, and somebody else's address and email.
 
I was swabbing myself, but I was going halfway to my brain, so I don't think I was doing it wrong. I also tried 1 antigen swabbing the throat after the nose also after hearing that same tip for Omicron. The cherry on top is the negative PCR I got(tested 5 days into symptoms). This is why I am asking about some very edge case scenario, it just makes zero sense that I had anything other than covid last week.

:eek: You dirty git
 
Ah. Ok. I see where you’re coming from The other thing to consider would be testing technique. Are you swabbing yourself? Or have you had an expert do it? Unless you get right up in there you can easily miss something. I’ve also heard that a swab to the back of the throat can sometimes pick up virus missed when you only swab the nose.

Not pretending i have any special knowledge, but pharmacists and doctors here are beginning to move away from this. The last couple I've had (who were previous brain scrapers) have said a slow, steady scrape from the upper nostril is now enough without reaching into the nasal cavity.
 
Not pretending i have any special knowledge, but pharmacists and doctors here are beginning to move away from this. The last couple I've had (who were previous brain scrapers) have said a slow, steady scrape from the upper nostril is now enough without reaching into the nasal cavity.

Yeah, I’ve heard that too. Although upper nostril is still fairly uncomfortable. I’m sure a lot of people give a quick wipe around the lower nostril and assume that’s enough.
 
Somebody else putting your contact details in so T&T can't enforce the isolation if they test positive? They only check the name vs the ID when you do the test, not the address or contact details.

It would be a 'smart' way to find out if you have Covid without the obligation to isolate if the result isn't what you want. Put your own name and phone number, and somebody else's address and email.

Maybe, but they had the correct email for me too. Very odd.
 
I got an email from 'Test and trace' just after Christmas telling me because of my 'recent positive PCR' I need to isolate. I never even took a PCR, so I ignored it.

Then on Friday I got an email from someone claiming to be from Bristol City Council asking me to contact test and trace again. I told her I've not tested positive and asked where she got the info. She said test and trace gave them the info and that I had a positive PCR on Christmas Day. I replied "Stop scamming people" and left it.

Today I've had a knock on the door. Some guy asks for me by name and hands me a bit of paper stapled to a 'Testing and Isolating' form. The paper says 'For the attention of.......' and doesn't have my name written. It's marked as BCC and says they've been trying to contact me. I tell the guy at the door that I've not even taken a PCR, let alone tested positive. He says to call them and let them know.

I call the Welfare and Engagement team number and the woman on the phone is very confused. Cannot find my details on the system and says she will speak to her manager and call me back.

I'm so confused :lol: Still not 100% confident it isn't one big scam.
Definitely @esmufc07 getting back at you for the Nigerian scam.
 
I got an email from 'Test and trace' just after Christmas telling me because of my 'recent positive PCR' I need to isolate. I never even took a PCR, so I ignored it.

Then on Friday I got an email from someone claiming to be from Bristol City Council asking me to contact test and trace again. I told her I've not tested positive and asked where she got the info. She said test and trace gave them the info and that I had a positive PCR on Christmas Day. I replied "Stop scamming people" and left it.

Today I've had a knock on the door. Some guy asks for me by name and hands me a bit of paper stapled to a 'Testing and Isolating' form. The paper says 'For the attention of.......' and doesn't have my name written. It's marked as BCC and says they've been trying to contact me. I tell the guy at the door that I've not even taken a PCR, let alone tested positive. He says to call them and let them know.

I call the Welfare and Engagement team number and the woman on the phone is very confused. Cannot find my details on the system and says she will speak to her manager and call me back.

I'm so confused :lol: Still not 100% confident it isn't one big scam.
Sign the form for feck sake, it’s bloody freezing out here.
 
Not pretending i have any special knowledge, but pharmacists and doctors here are beginning to move away from this. The last couple I've had (who were previous brain scrapers) have said a slow, steady scrape from the upper nostril is now enough without reaching into the nasal cavity.

Yeah, the most recent LFT swabs I got in the UK were very short and the instructions said to only scrape 2cm into the nostril rather than up into your nose canal. I did what it said, it felt wrong not having a brain scraper but I guess that's where it's going now.
 
This doesn't make any sense. Any individual's freedom necessarily impinges on the freedom of every other individual. In a world of 8.5 billion people or whatever the number is these days, freedom to pursue one's interest will inevitably contradict someone else's interest.
Someone’s right to kill me (willingly or accidentally) does not take precedence over my right to not be killed by someone’s carelessness or idiocy. Pretty many of the laws that we have are designed to protect people from being harmed rather than protecting people’s freedom to do harm. This would be no different if there was a variant out there where we had data supporting the fact that being vaccinated reduced risk of transmission.
 


Good explanation on reliability of results from tests with imperfect specificity (e.g. antigen tests). Something that still regularly blows my tiny mind.

Mind you, incidence of omicron is so insanely high right now I don’t think false positives should be much of a concern.
 
Wife works in a secure psychiatric hospital as a teacher and every single ward is 'red' meaning atleast one of the children has covid. They have been bubbled up and will be one teacher per ward teaching the negative kids, but we've started making plans for when she inevitably tests positive. Oh joy
 
I guess with the current case numbers, my previous question is even more relevant. Why the hell are we testing for infectious RNA instead of infectious virus? Loads of people probably off work when they don't need to be.
 
I think isolation period for critical workers will be reduced to two LFT negatives regardless of days on from positive test
 


Definitive/excellent omicron thread.

tl;dr. Definitely a lot less likely to put you on a ventilator but will probably still put hospitals deeply into the weeds. Oh and get vaccinated. Don’t be a tit.


I watched a press conference from our provincial government the other day. Our premier said similar, basically only about 1% of people who catch the Omnicron variant will end up in hospital but so many people will get it that that 1% becomes a very large number and this is the big concern.
 
I watched a press conference from our provincial government the other day. Our premier said similar, basically only about 1% of people who catch the Omnicron variant will end up in hospital but so many people will get it that that 1% becomes a very large number and this is the big concern.

You have basically summed up what the whole covid pandemic has been since day 1 :lol:
 
Oh great schools opening in ireland on Thursday. I’ve never seen a more stubborn minister than Foley
 
You have basically summed up what the whole covid pandemic has been since day 1 :lol:

Not quite as the original covid and delta variants weren't as infective but tended to be more severe than Omicron (i.e. people on ventilators and ICUs being overwhelmed). So far Omicron hospital stays are short and involve use of oxygen therapy but no ventilators. The big concern is a hospitlas being completely overwhelmed, not just ICUs.
 
Not quite as the original covid and delta variants weren't as infective but tended to be more severe than Omicron (i.e. people on ventilators and ICUs being overwhelmed). So far Omicron hospital stays are short and involve use of oxygen therapy but no ventilators. The big concern is a hospitlas being completely overwhelmed, not just ICUs.
Not to be picky but “no ventilators” is incorrect. Some people do still end up in ICU and on ventilators, but thankfully at a lower rate than previous waves.
 
It does make absolute sense and is actually one of the ground rules of every society. And it's not about mere interest. It's about endangering others with what some might call freedom. We wear masks during this time because it helps protect the most vulnerable in the society. Same goes with he vaccination. Now if some entitled prats think this is unbearable which results in full ICUs then the vaccination needs to be mandatory.

Someone’s right to kill me (willingly or accidentally) does not take precedence over my right to not be killed by someone’s carelessness or idiocy. Pretty many of the laws that we have are designed to protect people from being harmed rather than protecting people’s freedom to do harm. This would be no different if there was a variant out there where we had data supporting the fact that being vaccinated reduced risk of transmission.

What are you guys are saying is not opposed to what I said. What I'm saying is that freedom for any one individual impacts the freedom of other individuals (ie: if you are free to stand in spot X, then I may not be free to stand in spot X, because you are already there). Therefore, as you've rightly pointed out, societies tend to limit freedoms so that an individual who would like to murder people doesn't have the ability to do so (at least, not without forfeiting their freedom). My point is that protecting people from harm, and allowing people freedom, are two sides of the same coin, and the proper question is how to balance these interests. I think masks are a pretty reasonable balancing act; they're a low impact behaviour that can significantly reduce harm to the very specific segments of society that face a genuine threat from Covid (although, masks seem a bit less useful with Omicron's crazy contagiousness).

That balancing act requires a consideration of costs and benefits. And yes, there are significant costs to lockdowns, mandatory vaccinations, vaccine passports and other such measures. All I was pointing out is that there is a balancing act involved here; it's not as simple as "protect the vulnerable to covid and feck whatever other effects that has". Measures to contain the spread of covid have beneficial effects, namely curtailing deaths/severe illness from covid, but they have very significant harmful effects as well.
 
Would you rather home school your kids?
I would actually for a common sense period of 2-3 weeks after which I reckon we will be over the peak. (Truth be told my youngest one came on much more through 1 to 1homeschooling in the first lockdown than he did in the classroom)

I know that doesn’t suit everyone who’s desperate to get out to work but for me it’s common sense. I see they are saying again “kids no more likely..” like in the last few waves but anecdotal evidence all around us tells us that is bollox at this point with this variant. Plus they are rolling out vaccines for 5 and up. So something has changed otherwise they wouldn’t do that