Can still get 5/4 on Ramos signing for us before September 3rd. Probably poor odds as there is very little chance that he'll actually leave Madrid imo.
Sergio Ramos | Signs new 5 year contract
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Who do we think would benefit most from being alongside Ramos in a partnership then?
Jones-Ramos would be a little to volatile for me
Wouldn't mind seeing Ramos-Smalling/Evans though...
Feck Evans
Valencia - Ramos - MacNair - Rojo
Ramos -Smalling -Otamendi- Rojo
____________Jones__________
#BOOM
Evans is pretty decent IMO if he has someone good beside him, like he was with Rio.
I think being alongside Ramos could be a good partnership, providing he is still here when the season begins of course...
Defense was not that big of a problem. Our goals conceded record was not that bad. Our problem was we did not score enough goals.
Who do we think would benefit most from being alongside Ramos in a partnership then?
Jones-Ramos would be a little to volatile for me
Wouldn't mind seeing Ramos-Smalling/Evans though...
Ramos and Smalling would have the potential to be immense if the latter managed to stay fit. Evans should be sold as soon as possible, he's fecking terrible.
I didn't twist your words, never said the best or single greatest.
You said great CB's from our generation, which I find mind boggling as most of his career he spent as a right back, then you backtracked at Ramos being "one of the better CB's in our generation"
Which is it one of the better or great? Because the difference IMO is huge.
Here's a thread of world class center backs from last year, not 3 years ago. Funny what the opinions on Ramos are:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/who-are-the-world-class-centre-backs-in-football.388334/
De Gea.
Yeah thats true but we should have 'less need' for as much spectacular saves from our keeper is our defence get shored up properly.
You may be right. Not the type of signing we would have made under Sir Alex but these are different times.
We over compensated in our attacking play in order to become more solid by being more safe in possession.
The boss didn't trust the defence (not to mention we had a super keeper) which is why a CB and a DM are our priorities this summer.
CB and DM think about it, obviously LVG see defence as an issue.
Always makes me laugh when you see people discussing our transfers mentioning 'realistic' targets.
Ed don't do realistic.
Ed don't do realistic.
Are.. are there people who can't get excited by the thought of us signing Sergio Ramos?
Not only he's a once in a lifetime defender but it would also be a huge statement from United.
Not only he's a once in a lifetime defender but it would also be a huge statement from United.
I just imagine his wife asking him to pick up some eggs and he comes home with an ostrich.
He is very similar player to Rojo, IMO, but of course Ramos is more experienced/better. What I mean is that they are both better on the ball than they are without it, and they are far from great defenders.
Majority of people who like Ramos praise him as a great player who can score some important goals, and considering he is defender I am not sure how that is enough to call him great defender. Another thing that people praise him for is his leadership, but what they actually mean is him being cnut and elbowing players which he has no discipline/intelligence to mark(see van Persie's performance vs Madrid away, or Welbeck's goal in the same game where literally only thing on his mind is pushing/kicking Welbeck without even watching where the ball is). Apparently that is good thing these days, and apparently we lack players who will get few red cards per year and cost us few games. His discipline is actually one of the worst you can see in today's game(his red card record is more than good argument for this), he is Costa of defenders, but then I am maybe too harsh on Costa considering he hardly ever gets a red card. What's funny is that anyone who watches at least 10 Real Madrid's bigger games per season could see him avoiding bunch of yellow or red cards because of his name. Or because he plays for Real Madrid. But yeah, we definitely lack that, whatever that is.
Now, I am probably too harsh on him but I am not saying he is bad player, but I know I'll receive abuse for what I said about him. My whole point is that our defence lacks intelligence, calmness and most important of all - leadership, and that's definitely something that Ramos won't bring, IMO. He is a hot-head and pairing him with someone like Jones or Rojo can be very risky, and considering Smalling will undoubtedly have his injury periods those pairings will happen. He pretends he is a leader but whenever his team is being bullied by another team he is one of main culprits for that because he is always the first one who gets involved in silly things and looses his mind(games against Atlético are perfect example), which ends up with people laughing at Real Madrid and their recent trophy record even though they have excellent players and they are buying superstars every single year, but yet they are still very average in big games year after year.
Seriously, we should be better looking at someone like Varane or Carvajal rather than Ramos.
Majority of people who like Ramos praise him as a great player who can score some important goals, and considering he is defender I am not sure how that is enough to call him great defender. Another thing that people praise him for is his leadership, but what they actually mean is him being cnut and elbowing players which he has no discipline/intelligence to mark(see van Persie's performance vs Madrid away, or Welbeck's goal in the same game where literally only thing on his mind is pushing/kicking Welbeck without even watching where the ball is). Apparently that is good thing these days, and apparently we lack players who will get few red cards per year and cost us few games. His discipline is actually one of the worst you can see in today's game(his red card record is more than good argument for this), he is Costa of defenders, but then I am maybe too harsh on Costa considering he hardly ever gets a red card. What's funny is that anyone who watches at least 10 Real Madrid's bigger games per season could see him avoiding bunch of yellow or red cards because of his name. Or because he plays for Real Madrid. But yeah, we definitely lack that, whatever that is.
Now, I am probably too harsh on him but I am not saying he is bad player, but I know I'll receive abuse for what I said about him. My whole point is that our defence lacks intelligence, calmness and most important of all - leadership, and that's definitely something that Ramos won't bring, IMO. He is a hot-head and pairing him with someone like Jones or Rojo can be very risky, and considering Smalling will undoubtedly have his injury periods those pairings will happen. He pretends he is a leader but whenever his team is being bullied by another team he is one of main culprits for that because he is always the first one who gets involved in silly things and looses his mind(games against Atlético are perfect example), which ends up with people laughing at Real Madrid and their recent trophy record even though they have excellent players and they are buying superstars every single year, but yet they are still very average in big games year after year.
Seriously, we should be better looking at someone like Varane or Carvajal rather than Ramos.
We already have looked at Varane but he's just another Smalling/Jones type really. Potential in abundance but we need tried and tested world class...
Also I think it's laughable that you don't consider him to be a leader.
VA-MOS, RA-MOS!
Let's Go, SER-GI-O!
Let's Go, SER-GI-O!
Your insinuating I suggested Ramos as being the best CB of this current era, which I never did.
As for RB to CB adaption, he played roughly 4 seasons at RB from 2005 onwards. The rest he has played as a CB for Madrid (6 years) and for the national side since 2011/12 I believe. So, in fact he has actually played most of his Madrid career at CB.
And your last sentence is just pedantic quite honestly. If a player is considered "one of the better" in his position then of course it would make him a "great" also quite clearly. Wasn't Maldini considered one of the better left backs to ever grace the game? Doesn't that make him a great?
I'm off to bed you can continue to make post pedantic, incorrect statements if you wish by all means, I'll correct you in the morning.
Yeah, when you think about it Sir Alex was one of the best players in the transfer market in history. He rarely splashed out, but still won trophy after trophy, and he regularly signed relatively unheard of/non-prolific players and they came out the other end as world beaters!
Now a days, we just seem to be linked with who everyone else is linked with.
He was one of the best if not the best manager in history but one of the best players in the transfer market in history?
Not really.
Easy to write a long post about why we shouldn't sign him , much tougher to name a few realistic options who would be better than him.
Not in terms of signing stars but in terms of signings players with potential and turning them into stars. Straight off the top of my head I can think of Ronaldo, Vidic, Chica, Ji Sung...
What I'm trying to say is that we never had the transfer mindset of Chelsea, Madrid, City and now ourselves. Fergie had consistently brilliant scouts. Fergie knew the market.
I think he plays with 'Sergio Ramos' on his back?
I don't get this stuff from people calling him a great or world class CB. It's either the standard of great CB's has fallen so low that he can be considered or people don't watch him all that much.
In his whole career at Real he was the defender most prone to an error, especially positionwise. He tends to get into tackles and rush into situations leaving his position exposed. I don't think he can lead a line at all, let alone commanding the defence. He has escaped at least the same amount of red cards that he has received due to being a Real player.
His discipline is unrivaled he has more red cards than Vinnie Jones and Joe Barton combined, not to mention being on a yellow every second game in his career. At the Euro 2012 he was Spain worst defender as well, even tho he rarely got something to do.
He compensates with his ball playing skills, being really good in the air and going forward, but if you pair him with Jones it will be a total disaster.
I can't recall him excelling in the big games as well - defensive wise.
Yeah but these are different times. And due to the fact we neglected our squad for years we need to buy big now.
Also Fergie had some great buys but some really bad ones - I mean signings players with potential.
I wonder if Madrid are pushing him out of the club to sign Otamendi? Reports suggests he was the best defender in La-Liga last season.
Well yeah I agree on that latter part. That happened more often than not, in fact, but it's not like we just bought everyone with some turning out class and some being Bebe.
His best attribute is his skill to play the ball out of defence, much like Hummels.
I never said that. Explained it above.
Ramos was converted to CB from RB after Carvalho was gone and the season before that when he was injured. Before that he was filling in for Pepe when he was injured. I'm starting to think that you haven't followed him all that much.
One of the better, does not make you great, or English is not your first language. Neither it is mine, but I never heard that comparison one of the better meaning great. You are just trying to backtrack your first statement, which I find odd to continue as it will be futile.And your last sentence is just pedantic quite honestly. If a player is considered "one of the better" in his position then of course it would make him a "great" also quite clearly. Wasn't Maldini considered one of the better left backs to ever grace the game? Doesn't that make him a great?
as well his ability in the air. Whenever he doesn't use his elbows of course
We need someone like him capable of starting attacks from the back.
We are rubbish at it if Carrick can't play and drop and pick it up.
It just isn't Smalling or Jones game at all.
We are rubbish at it if Carrick can't play and drop and pick it up.
It just isn't Smalling or Jones game at all.
Even if the Redcafe don't rate him as a top CB, he's a very experienced one and he has been playing on a very high level for years. He seems quite a leader, and I think our defence needs that badly. Plus, like you said, he is excellent on the ball and threat at corners.
Even if we don't value his defensive skills that high (what I disagree with BTW), I'd say he's worth a lot as a whole package for us. Him and fit Smalling could be the best CB pairing in the league I guess?
We need a calm composed intelligent player in defence, not another nutter.
Do not want.
Do not want.
One thing I will say is the Madrid fans absolutely love him! Probably the most popular player there. That's with players like James, Isco, Ronaldo, Benzema and Bale in the team. There's a reason for that, he's a world class ball playing defender who gives everything for the team.
Does that mean we don't need Fellaini anymore?Whenever he doesn't use his elbows of course
I'm sold!
I don't understand all the hate of him here. Yes he may be a cnut who is prone to positional errors and not the traditional type of defenders we are familiar with, but I mean, his overall game far exceed his shortcomings, to me at least. He is far better choice than what we've got here, tbh.
Prob been posted but you should add "I'd prefer Otamendi" to the poll.
The difference in quality between Rojo and Ramos is night and day; though, I agree with the rest of your assesment on Ramos. Your post echos pretty much my sentiments on the player. Many observers consider defense as one of the weakest parts of Madrid's team and Ramos contributes to that view. A ball playing defender, with defending and defensive organization not his strongest suit.
Sounding more and more like the Di Maria situation where the player thinks he is worth more than Real are willing to pay but would still command a premium fee as we are desperate. Any deal where we pay them money and De Gea, and then give Ramos a big fat long-term contract at 29 sounds terrible to me. Two years from now, Rooney and him will be sitting on bench with still time left on their huge contracts, which no where justifies their actual worth.
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