When was the last time you saw him play a whole game? Be honest.
Sergio Ramos | Signs new 5 year contract
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Him and Schweinsteiger have won everything. I think those two would make a huge impact and give the whole squad a buzz.
We can also buy a few top youngsters too!
In Woody we trust!
We can also buy a few top youngsters too!
In Woody we trust!
The defence did the job, but in another way, you just can't say they defended well, as the opposition couldn't get the ball. Even if they were the best defenders ever, you couldn't say it as they didn't have a chance to prove it. But last WC it was different and the defence didn't make the difference, they actually conceded to many goals.
I know he can be good, he van be great, but he isn't consistent (please, just watch the games and the mistakes he makes - people here would slaughter our defenders for these kind of mistakes and they should) and when it's tough, he can't control his temper which will be a problem in the Prem as referees don't really like it, especially from foreign players.
About Mascherano, I would love to have him in our team, but not as a defender (he is just to short for that position in the Premierleague), while Pique is OK, but would really want him for big money (he was horrible just last year or so.....).
Nah sounds like he wouldn't. To be fair he's managed to slag off so many defenders in one post that I'm not sure who he would particularly want?
Last season. I was watching the WC, the CL, the big games in Spain (I don't care about games were the opposition gets slaughtered 5,6:0), plus I was watching him before that a lot more (last season I just stopped watching most of the football).
Of course I don't know which CB as the quality went down. I would love Varane, but we would need to wait for him as he is still prone to mistakes, but he is young. Hummels, of course no, for 35mil pound, please no.... I am not sure about Otamendi, that's why I didn't mention him. I just didn't see enough of him.
Football is a team sport. You make it sound like defenders are completely irrelevant.
Why do you keep comparing him to former players? Would he improve the CURRENT team? Oh wait, he wouldn't, because Smalling, who doesn't even start for England, is better than the first choice CB for Spain.
Now that's a good point, Smalling doesn't start for England. Cahill starts and Jagielka also and we all sow how they did at the WC. OK, they did better then the Spain team, I have to admit that.
You are underrating him so hard, seriously. Ramos is fantastic, you just don't play 10 years at Madrid as first choice if you aren't.
Louis van Gaal would always pick Ramos over Otamendi if he's given the choice. Smalling and Jones are good defenders but not great passers whilst Rojo is pretty good with the ball at his feet and has better potential at it imo. Ideally we would have 2 centrebacks per position with a mix of passing and defending as main strenghts, this is exactly why we were linked to Hummels before by the media. The problem with Hummels is that we'd most likely replace an injury prone Evans for another injury prone player, we'd run the risk of having to use Blind or Carrick at CB again with our injury record.
Otamendi is a superb defender but nothing special passing wise, Ramos on the other hand is a nearly perfect van Gaal centreback. Ramos is strong in the air which is very important (so is Otamendi tbf) and he also has a very good injury record. He's experienced to play in a high defensive line and can really speed our attack up with his passing. Defensively he's still great but not the best, Otamendi probably was better last season. I doubt van Gaal cares about the few extra millions Ramos would cost and the fact he's a bit older as he just fits the profile more, LvG isn't a fan of theater on the field though.
Still can't see Ramos leaving RM for some reason, wouldn't mind if he did..
Otamendi is a superb defender but nothing special passing wise, Ramos on the other hand is a nearly perfect van Gaal centreback. Ramos is strong in the air which is very important (so is Otamendi tbf) and he also has a very good injury record. He's experienced to play in a high defensive line and can really speed our attack up with his passing. Defensively he's still great but not the best, Otamendi probably was better last season. I doubt van Gaal cares about the few extra millions Ramos would cost and the fact he's a bit older as he just fits the profile more, LvG isn't a fan of theater on the field though.
Still can't see Ramos leaving RM for some reason, wouldn't mind if he did..
I rate Ramos a lot, but lets not pretend that it was due to good defensive performances. It was due to nobody being able to get the ball off them.
In part this was due to the defense being so comfortable on the ball, but it wasn't due to amazing defensive performances.
And people looking at his age, perhaps you want him a few years younger but he would offer huge amounts of experience and a winning mentality, something we don't have in abundance, especially at the back. Even if he offers us 3 years minimum at a top level then fantastic, which is totally feasible considering he is CB. Of course we need up and coming players but we also need experience and more importantly quality in the short term. If we end up with Ramos, Pig Tiger, Schneiderlin and Depay, then thats a pretty good balance.
Funny thing is if it does happen, we could end up with more Spaniards in our starting XI than Real Madrid even if de Gea does go there - Ramos, Herrera and Mata for us. De Gea and Carvajal for them.
I'm not even sure that it's Ramos entirely, I think it's the circus of Real Madrid. I remember at Euro 2012 both him and Pepe completely cleaned up their acts and were absolutely superb - this was in the summer following the most farcical of the El Clasico's too I think, the one where Pepe got sent off for the foul on Alves.
I'm not saying that he isn't a hothead, but I think Mourinho's Madrid brought out the worst in him with his siege mentality.
Isco
We slaughter the likes of Jones for example when he makes mistakes like falling on his arse and having to flop at the ball with his head because that's the sort of player he is - consistently clumsy. Ramos is calm, strong and decisive but also audacious and at time loses concentration, which can account for his few mistakes.
I can understand why people might be a bit worried about signing Ramos because of a few valid reasons like his disciplinary record, his age or his style... but coming out and saying he's an 'average defender' is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on the caf.
Take a time out
!Ramos no,Varane too early,Hummels no,Otamendi not sure...do you think that United can win PL with the defense they have now?what CB would you buy then?I don't see many more names in the market
Knew I was forgetting someone. Would he get into your starting XI with Kroos, Modric and Rodriguez all fit though? He played a fair bit last season but that was helped by having Modric and Rodriguez out with injuries at various points.
It's not related to the Ramos discussion, can you take it elsewhere please.
I don't agree that he is great defensively, but I do agree with the rest of the post. That's why I have said that if he comes to United we need more midfielders and need to control the games, but if we do it, do we need him as we are already controling the game and Jones/Rojo can function in that system (don't get me wrong, I don't think they are great or something like that). I agree that he will be better then our other defenders with the ball + defensively (I think that Smalling is a better defender, but he is not better with the ball), but if we control games, can't we just try and let Jones/Rojo develop and buy a young defender? Jones and Rojo aren't the best defenders, I know that, but they are very quick, so in a high line they can fix the mistakes they make.
People are talking about experience, but you have mentioned "theater" on the field. He would not bring calmness as he argues to much with the referee and I am sure that the Premierleague referees would punish him a lot, especially as he is a foreigner and they do treat them differently in those situation, especially if they are a big name (I am talking about players who are famous before they get to the Prem).
Yeah, not sure what Benitez will go for. I, for one, hope he gets in the starting eleven. He's a joy to watch and quickly becoming one of my favourite players.
Sweinsteger and Ramos would go a LONG way to forming an elite spine to our squad.
Ramos would be an absolutely perfect signing. People questioning this are insane! If Mangala costs £40mil (give or take) then surely Ramos is worth at the very least just as much. We don't need to be buying "potential" right now - we need proven winners and this cnut fits the bill.
I sort of tiptoed around this point before but, eff it I am going for it especially since this will probably not happen anyway so I will not have to eat my words. I really do not think there is a whole lot of difference between David Luiz and Sergio Ramos. Ramos is better but, it is not as bit of a gap as people here think. David Luiz should not be in the World Team of the Year and should not be the World most expensive defender but, he is not the clown everyone here thinks he is. All the things people are praising Ramos for you can also praise Luiz for. Luiz like Ramos, has great pace, is great in the air, a threat to score from set pieces, strong in the tackle, aggressive, is a leader and will do anything to win. Luiz has a lot of the same weaknesses that Ramos has that we are ignoring because we might sign him. The mental mistakes, the silly fouls, the idiotic tackles Ramos have often been guilty of the type of things we laugh at David Luiz for.
Really let us not like Real have been consistently putting out great and that Ramos has always been a rock for him. Even during their best years during Ramos time defense has often been the Achilles heal for Real Madrid. Last season we said are defense is crap and De Gea is bailing them out people used to say the same thing about Casillas. Over Ramos' time at the club we see their defense completely collapse against Barca, Atletico and in the CL. They were never able to have a defense like we had from 07-09, like Chelsea had during Mourinho's first run, like Inter had with Mourinho or Bayern had in their treble season. When they won it was mostly because of their attack. Ramos himself while he has had some great moments but, he has made plenty of huge mistakes in big games for Real. And really how does a guy that plays on a squad that dominates possession like Ramos end up with 19 red cards? I will bring up the one player I always defend on here Ramos' sort of shows that the criticism of Jones on here is completely over the top. Ramos is a defender that has won everything yet still has a ton of mistakes in him.
Really let us not like Real have been consistently putting out great and that Ramos has always been a rock for him. Even during their best years during Ramos time defense has often been the Achilles heal for Real Madrid. Last season we said are defense is crap and De Gea is bailing them out people used to say the same thing about Casillas. Over Ramos' time at the club we see their defense completely collapse against Barca, Atletico and in the CL. They were never able to have a defense like we had from 07-09, like Chelsea had during Mourinho's first run, like Inter had with Mourinho or Bayern had in their treble season. When they won it was mostly because of their attack. Ramos himself while he has had some great moments but, he has made plenty of huge mistakes in big games for Real. And really how does a guy that plays on a squad that dominates possession like Ramos end up with 19 red cards? I will bring up the one player I always defend on here Ramos' sort of shows that the criticism of Jones on here is completely over the top. Ramos is a defender that has won everything yet still has a ton of mistakes in him.
You can have midfielders but you need someone to start to play,to move the ball forward unless you expect that the midfielders go down to receive the ball every time
When I say Otamendi not sure, it means I have no idea. It's not my job to scout the player. Fine, get him, I will not say no, or yes, as I don't know what to think about him (the gif's looked great).
But for a fact I know that Hummels is in problems last two years and how can you argue that, while Varane is young and making mistakes, but I didn't say he wouldn't improve us? Or are you saying Varane is not making to many mistakes if we want to look at him as a WC defender. I said before, I would choose him instead of Ramos.
Ramos, I don't need to write anymore.
LvG doesn't approve of negative behaviour and fines players for it, I don't think it'll be a major problem and that Ramos can cut down on it as I too have seen matches where he wouldn't be provoked. Ramos always is a slight risk imo, but in the total picture he offers much more than Otamendi and is the superior player.
Short answer? Yes. Ideally the XI are all good passers for van Gaal, that is why he has signed Valdes and even doubted de Gea for a while. With Jones and Smalling being excellent defenders for the league and homegrown he won't sell them but improve their passing. To bring balance he would just buy Ramos and actually have a decent chance of winning things with his brand of football - which needs players that fit his profile. With say Otamendi alot of the creativity must come from our holding midfielder, this slows the attack down as Carrick can be marked out of a game. I don't think van Gaal really liked alot of the pointless runs into the midfield by Smalling and Jones last season.
He is a headcase and a magnet for cards and stupid behaviour on the pitch. He hasn't half come on and he is very good. It is hard to even know how good as the standard of defenders is poor and pool shallow. He'd really excel in the Premier League. Is it genuine he is attainable or is the club being used as a pawn in his negotiations?
Not a player I like at all but he'd improve the team enormously.
Not a player I like at all but he'd improve the team enormously.
So then, if Ramos at £35 million isn't an option, would you rather stick with our injury prone backline, or find another viable option? If so, then which players (Varane is most likely unobtainable as the most sought after young CB in the world, an overpriced Hummels and no opinion on at £35 million Otamendi)?
Just curious to know because you were so quick to bash such an average defender such as Ramos.
I agree, it would be a risk, but I think it could be possible as Rojo is good on the ball and we may could bring a younger defender to do it.... But OK, I do agree that it would be a risk.
First, I always compare defenders to players like Baresi, Maldini (OK not the same position), Cannavaro, Stam, Rio, Vidić in a box, Kohler, Thuram,......, so that's why I sound harsh a lot of times. I don't like the way people say OK, he is not TOP, but compared to today's defenders we can say he is TOP. I don't think it's the right way to do it.
Now, look, Hummels just wasn't good this season, I could say it has nothing to do with the price, he just wasn't good and in a high line in the Prem we would need to have a TOP TOP midfield to be able to play with him.
Because I compare CB's to the players I have mentioned I just can't tell whom I would like to bring. I prefer younger defenders, but we have to many of them (actually almost everyone is young for a defender). I didn't watch enough football to be able to judge, but I was watching BVB games (it was often on TV) and I was watching Real as it is also often on TV (and I stream the big games) and that's why I am against these to players (with Ramos it's actually the whole package which is annoying, even if I would prefer him instead of Hummels quality wise, but I don't like how he behaves). The CL games I've seen just didn't really impress me when it comes to defenders.
But I am not arguing about 10 CB's, I am mentioning one, now also Hummels, so let's say 2.
PS
No, I wouldn't stick with our injury prone defense, we do need one CB.
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But that means that Rojo and Ramos would be the ideal partnership at least till Smalling and Jones don't improve the passing? We will probably see Ramos (if he comes) and Smalling and I can leave with that, but I do hope that we will not be a lot under pressure.
So how many of the soulless cnuts who were being all cynical (about the news and to the posters who believed them) are now pushing their way through the very crowd of believers they so arrogantly dismissed to a front row seat?
Disgusting. Next time, don't be so dismissive. Live a little and learn.
Disgusting. Next time, don't be so dismissive. Live a little and learn.
That I'm fully aware of. Was max 10 charactersI think he plays with 'Sergio Ramos' on his back?
A well deserved rebuke. Stern, but fair...
Excellent CB, but he's Madrid legend.
For this first time, I'm starting to realistically entertain that this might happen. I've been skeptical all along that his agent has been using us to get him a better contract and that very well may have been the case initially. But you get the sense that there's a legitimate divide growing between the Ramos camp and Madrid and hopefully that relationship deteriorates to the point that it benefits us.
Ramos is one of those signings I would have loved to see years ago, but while I'd still be happy for him to come to us this window, it isn't with as much excitement. While he is clearly a very good player, he is getting on in age now (at least it feels like he has been around forever) and as a result I'm unsure on how many top years we would get out of him for the money we would spend. Though would hardly say no if United did go and sign him.
I think I know what your problem is. Football at the highest level has undergone a sea change in recent seasons, and the importance of a central defender's ability to be proficient in the possession game is becoming more pronounced. Yet folks still have very conservative views of what central defenders are supposed to be like. The game is constantly evolving, elite teams are becoming more diverse instead of relying on specialists, so in a sense comparing a central defender like Ramos with Baresi or Kohler is like comparing a deep lying, modern definition of a defensive midfielder in Xabi Alonso with Rijkaard or Monti - and then complaining about the stylistic or maybe even functional variance in their approach.
If you carefully examine 3 of the most successful teams in Europe through the past 5 seasons - Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich, the number of times their central defenders touch the ball per game is almost as high as the midfielders through some of the biggest matches of the season. The best European clubs are putting a lot of emphasis on defenders who can help control the rhythm of games from the back, and help build up the offensive play from deeper areas. This trait is of utmost importance under a manager like Van Gaal who likes his goalkeepers and central defenders to be extremely comfortable in possession.
This is why he isn't likely to sign a keeper like Cech (if he was hypothetically interested in moving out of London), even though he might technically be the best pure goalkeeper available. Edwin Van der Sar wasn't the greatest shot-stopper or the most natural pure goalkeeper when he was at Ajax, something that has been well documented though the years. But he had the qualities that Van Gaal wanted in possession and organisational ability, and Louis along-with Hoek helped him become one of he very best goalkeepers around. Hence Van Gaal referring to him as the "manufactured goalkeeper". Ramos might not be as good of a pure defender as Kohler or Baresi or Maldini, he might not even be comparable to Godin as a pure defender, but as long as he functions well in Van Gaal's overall scheme, that's more than enough. Though somehow, people are having a hard time processing that simple thought. Is Ramos the final solution for our defensive problems ? Not at all. In Van Gaal's grand scheme of things, could he be a major part of the final solution ? Absolutely yes.
Also, the oft-repeated 'annoying' bit is based on a very specific set of personal preferences, and should't really be a great reason for not signing Ramos. Was Henry a pompous, annoying arse ? Yes. Was Pires annoying at Arsenal ? Yes. Was Costa annoying at Atletico ? Yes. But given the chance, should/ would United have signed them ? Absolutely, because at the end of the day transfer decisions should be made on more objective, performance related factors (unless Ramos has a record of going full Suarez, which he doesn't). If Ramos is available, he might be the best central defender we could sign (under Louis strict criteria which prioritizes comfort in possession). And that's including someone who is arguably the better pure defender in Otamendi (on the basis of one season in a major league mind, not the not conclusive sample size).
I hate him so much but he mostly would be a good signing.
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