Shinji Kagawa | Signs for Manchester United

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Brophs said:
His point was that he should be sold on the basis that he isn't available often enough. That's only what I'm referring to. Which is why I said regardless of the rights and wrongs of the opinion. Different players mature different ways phsyically. And the demands of first team football are different.

If you take their careers as a whole into account of course it might look different, though I'm not sure I'd be in any rush to say Anderson's been any better than okay in his time with us, as a whole. I'd give him another season unless we get a crazy offer, though. If there isn't an improvement in terms of performance (and consistency) and availability then I think a hard decision has to be made.

What would be great is if he returns after the summer slim and ready and not looking like he's a stone overweight. Fingers crossed...
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I brought Cleverley into it because of their relative ages and expectations and Anderson "always being injured" when Cleverley has actually been injured more in the last 5 years. The point is that they are both young and loads of young players suffer with injuries thanks to the rigours of professional football on a body that has been growing. They generally settle coming to their mid twenties which is why it's important we keep them. I think we are playing it safe with injuries with players at that age learning from the lessons of players like Owen who was rushed back time and time again and suffered badly in what should have been his peak years.

We are letting them heal and mature in their own time which is very sensible.
 
Pexbo said:
Because Anderson was deemed good enough and Cleverley was no where near? I trust Ferguson on this...
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You can't compare a foreigner coming in here for €30m who has already being playing at a professional level to a product of the youth academy who has no experience at all.
 
Cina said:
You can't compare a foreigner coming in here for €30m who has already being playing at a professional level to a product of the youth academy who has no experience at all.
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Ferguson wanted to play Fletcher when he was 16 and was told that he wasn't allowed because he was studying for his Gcse's. If you're good enough you are old enough. Ask yourself why we paid £17m for him at 19 rather than using it as a "reason why he had to be played."
 
Garethw said:
A twat on Facebook (Chelsea fan) just put "we're signing hazard and hulk, United are gettin' Kagawa (lol) and arsenal are signing a Japanese teen called Fu kin no wan".

fecking arrogant Chelsea fans.
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So its not just their team's football style that is boring
 
Pexbo said:
Ferguson wanted to play Fletcher when he was 16 and was told that he wasn't allowed because he was studying for his Gcse's. If you're good enough you are old enough. Ask yourself why we paid £17m for him at 19 rather than using it as a "reason why he had to be played."
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Because of his potential as a player, obviously? You think he was brought into the squad to straight away become our first choice center midfielder?

There's no doubting Anderson came here with high expectations but he hasn't fulfilled them at all, if he has been ready to play at first team level for last 5 years then he sure as hell hasn't done an awful lot to prove that.
 
Pexbo said:
Same for Cleverley I guess?
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How many games has Ando played in 5 years? His progression has regressed. I understand that he is young and can still hit the highs but this really is make or break season for him. If he picks up more injuries this season I can see Ferguson losing faith with him
 
I wouldn't say Anderson has regressed, but he hasn't exactly improved much either. Cleverley on the other hand HAS improved as a player.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
------------De Gea-----------

Rafael--Evans----Vidic----Evra


------------Carrick-------------


------Cleverley-----Kagawa-------


------------Rooney---------------


--Nani-------------------Welbeck----
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Whoof, this is a weird one Chief, you mean Rooney up top with Nani and Welbeck either side?
 
golden_blunder said:
How many games has Ando played in 5 years? His progression has regressed. I understand that he is young and can still hit the highs but this really is make or break season for him. If he picks up more injuries this season I can see Ferguson losing faith with him
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He's played more for the team he's selected for (United 1st team) than Cleverley has (Reserves, Watford, Wigan and United 1sts) is the last 5 years. The only difference is that he's been in the limelight where as people just haven't realised how bad Cleverleys injury record is.

Cleverley has played 90 to Andersons 145 games. This season Anderson has played more than Cleverley.
 
Pexbo said:
He's played more for the team he's selected for (United 1st team) than Cleverley has (Reserves, Watford, Wigan and United 1sts) is the last 5 years. The only difference is that he's been in the limelight where as people just haven't realised how bad Cleverleys injury record is.
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Cleverley was as good as Anderson this past season in his feat year as a first team player, Anderson has stayed at pretty much the same level since he was 18. It's natural that people will be more forgiving of the former.
 
Pexbo said:
He's played more for the team he's selected for (United 1st team) than Cleverley has (Reserves, Watford, Wigan and United 1sts) is the last 5 years. The only difference is that he's been in the limelight where as people just haven't realised how bad Cleverleys injury record is.
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I dont know why you are comparing to Cleverley since it was his first season with United last season. I dont care about the loans otherwise i'd look at Andersons time at his previous club too. If we are having the same conversation about Cleverley after his 4th or 5th season at the club then I will fully agree with you

"shite" was harsh admittedly. I just think he's completely overated by some of our fans, based on nothing but a handful of games. His amount of average-poor games, coupled with his appalling injury record would suggest to me that he needs to prove himself this season or he might have to find a new club
 
Cina said:
Whoof, this is a weird one Chief, you mean Rooney up top with Nani and Welbeck either side?
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No. I'm thinking more of a Barca type thing, with Rooney in a Messi false 9 role, free to do as he sees fit.
i.e
Carrick = Busquets role
Kagawa = Iniesta role
Cleverley = Xavi role
Rooney = Messi role
Nani = Sanchez/Pedro role
Welbeck= Villa role


Unfortunately, we don't play football that way.
 
golden_blunder said:
I dont know why you are comparing to Cleverley since it was his first season with United last season. I dont care about the loans otherwise i'd look at Andersons time at his previous club too. If we are having the same conversation about Cleverley after his 4th or 5th season at the club then I will fully agree with you

"shite" was harsh admittedly. I just think he's completely overated by some of our fans, based on nothing but a handful of games. His amount of average-poor games, coupled with his appalling injury record would suggest to me that he needs to prove himself this season or he might have to find a new club
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I'm comparing him to Cleverley because there is just a year in their age. That's all that matters to me. I also think you are under rating Anderson in the same way you are accusing others of over rating him. He was Fantastic at the start of the season and the end of last season. He drove with the ball, held it up and his one touch with Rooney, Cleverley and Welbeck was breathtaking at time. The mobility and strength was so refreshing after the controlled but pedestrian Carrick, Scholes and Berbatov team of the previous season.
 
Pexbo said:
He was Fantastic at the start of the season and the end of last season. He drove with the ball, held it up and his one touch with Rooney, Cleverley and Welbeck was breathtaking at time. The mobility and strength was so refreshing after the controlled but pedestrian Carrick, Scholes and Berbatov team of the previous season.
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You mean all 5 games that he managed to play before he got hurt?
 
golden_blunder said:
I
"shite" was harsh admittedly. I just think he's completely overated by some of our fans, based on nothing but a handful of games. His amount of average-poor games, coupled with his appalling injury record would suggest to me that he needs to prove himself this season or he might have to find a new club
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I'm disappointed to read this from you. Ando's injure record is something special. A broken leg when he was 17, cruciate ligament when he was 21 and last season he only played regular the first two month.

He haven't fulfill his potential and he's inured way to often but overrated?? It's a miracle he has produced so much with his bad luck.

Give me one single player under 25 years old who have made it at the highest level after been away more or less three seasons out of five. Just one single player?
 
United pages on Facebook say that Shinji's deal is 99% done. About £16 millions. Contract is approx. 80k/week on a 4 year deal.

Great deal for United, if true.
 
Don't know where to put this but our transfer business or rumours have gone a little bit quiet for my liking. Even the twitter thread has no updates! Boring summer indeed

And Shinji, why you no fly in to Manchester for medical yet?
 
Pexbo said:
I brought Cleverley into it because of their relative ages and expectations and Anderson "always being injured" when Cleverley has actually been injured more in the last 5 years. The point is that they are both young and loads of young players suffer with injuries thanks to the rigours of professional football on a body that has been growing. They generally settle coming to their mid twenties which is why it's important we keep them. I think we are playing it safe with injuries with players at that age learning from the lessons of players like Owen who was rushed back time and time again and suffered badly in what should have been his peak years.

We are letting them heal and mature in their own time which is very sensible.
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I'm getting sick of this "they are young and that's why they are getting injured" shite. If they were 18 years old I'd agree with you, but at 23 (in football terms) they aren't exactly kids any more are they?

I don't ever remember Scholes, Beckham, Neville or even Rooney or Ronaldo getting as injured as often as Cleverley or Anderson had at 23.

Sometimes you just have to call it as it is, they are injury prone and probably will be for the rest of their careers.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
No. I'm thinking more of a Barca type thing, with Rooney in a Messi false 9 role, free to do as he sees fit.
i.e
Carrick = Busquets role
Kagawa = Iniesta role
Cleverley = Xavi role
Rooney = Messi role
Nani = Sanchez/Pedro role
Welbeck= Villa role


Unfortunately, we don't play football that way.
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Unfortunately, everyone of those United players is considerably inferior to the Barca counterparts.

In fact, that is cringeworthy to look at the difference in quality.
 
Garethw said:
I'm getting sick of this "they are young and that's why they are getting injured" shite. If they were 18 years old I'd agree with you, but at 23 (in football terms) they aren't exactly kids any more are they?

I don't ever remember Scholes, Beckham, Neville or even Rooney or Ronaldo getting as injured as often as Cleverley or Anderson had at 23.

Sometimes you just have to call it as it is, they are injury prone and probably will be for the rest of their careers.
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I like how you left giggs out of that little list.
 
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