The day United adapts Japan's playstyle, you can come back here and be smug about it..
Shinji Kagawa
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The day United adapts Japan's playstyle, you can come back here and be smug about it..
We never played him as an out and out winger. He was just positioned there but never expected to put in crosses like Nani or Valencia. He always had that freedom to drift inside. But because of that, a lot of other players had to shuffle around
Superb understanding he's got with Honda
http://www.tribalfootball.com/artic...ad-under-tables-laughing-3964476#.UcT58ZzfucY
Manchester United fullback Alexander Buttner has revealed how Shinji Kagawa introduced himself to his new teammates last season.
Buttner says the tradition of any new teammate singing a song in front of the squad was given a twist by the Japanese.
"At United, for example, there is the tradition that you give a speech or sing a song if you are new," he told Voetbal International. "I have held a chat about my first positive experiences at the club, but my buddy Shinji Kagawa found things a bit more difficult.
"He barely speaks English, so he went into the middle of the restaurant of Rio Ferdinand, while the whole squad looked at him when he cried, 'I do not speak English', then the music came on and he danced on his own. Gangnam Style. Everyone was under the table with laughter."
Manchester United fullback Alexander Buttner has revealed how Shinji Kagawa introduced himself to his new teammates last season.
Buttner says the tradition of any new teammate singing a song in front of the squad was given a twist by the Japanese.
"At United, for example, there is the tradition that you give a speech or sing a song if you are new," he told Voetbal International. "I have held a chat about my first positive experiences at the club, but my buddy Shinji Kagawa found things a bit more difficult.
"He barely speaks English, so he went into the middle of the restaurant of Rio Ferdinand, while the whole squad looked at him when he cried, 'I do not speak English', then the music came on and he danced on his own. Gangnam Style. Everyone was under the table with laughter."
This guy is going to break through for real next season. How can you not love his way of playing football?
We need the learn how to get the best out of him. We really did not utilize him properly. He is a real gem of a player.
I don't think that was the case, we played him pretty much like he does for Japan and he is doing quite well there. I think it's more a case of having to adept to a new league, unfamiliar surroundings, a new language and all that, it sometimes just takes a while for a player to settle in.
In the Bundesliga technical players like him get much better protection from the refs because they call pretty much any physical contact against a player as a foul which is not the case in the PL. On top of that we play quite different to how Dortmund plays so he has to get used to that as well.
However I'm pretty sure we will see a much improved Kagawa next season, especially if he has learned a bit more English and understands his team mates and the coach without the help of a interpreter.
Hopefully he won't be wasted like Berba.
As NoLogo says above, I don't buy this argument that we didn't utilise him properly last season which would justify his disappointing outings.
If you're a good player you must be able to adapt to different systems, even Zidane who was the slowest play-maker around operated efficiently from Real Madrid's left wing. Not just that but we often used Kagawa in his ideal position and he still relatively failed to deliver. I just think the PL is a tougher league for play-makers than Germany.
If you're a good player you must be able to adapt to different systems, even Zidane who was the slowest play-maker around operated efficiently from Real Madrid's left wing. Not just that but we often used Kagawa in his ideal position and he still relatively failed to deliver. I just think the PL is a tougher league for play-makers than Germany.
Another commonly used argument is that the players don't trust him and hence don't pass him the ball often enough. Poor Shinji
Disappointing outings? Hardly. He's done pretty well overall. Some very good game, some decent ones. He found it hard to adapt surely though. Next season he'll be even better.
He was disappointing overall. Not poor, but disappointing. 6/10 for the season IMO.
I preferred his performances on the left to Welbeck or the shit on a stick that our wingers served up for most of the season. I always think you can never expect consistency from certain players who're coming in and out of a team, as he was after his injury and his patchy performances reflect this.
He's fine out on the left, he's allowed to drift wherever he wants ( that's pretty obvious) and he did well in his first season, he should only get better from this point on.
Zidane slow? Not until his 30's even at the world cup he was gliding past players at 34 plus don't compare Kagwa and Zidane that will not justify your argument as Zidane is a much better player use someone worst than Kagwa to prove your point. How many games did he play in his favoured position this season? He looks much brighter/active in the middle there that is clear to see. I think being such a small guy he struggled plus he was injured this season his first year in a new physical more physical league playing out of position no surprise he struggled. He had to put on weight in Germany to cope there so hopefully he sorts that side out this season and can let his football do the talking.
The best playmakers in Germany would come here and so as well imo the Premiership is not at a higher level then Germany. The game is played differently here in terms of speed and physicality they are a stable of the English game and that is what he needs to adjust to.
It's a fair observation though but it fails to highlight the situation goes both ways. Shinji needs more faith in himself just as the players need to trust in his abilities more than they have. Evra was the main culprit from my observations. He only really passed it to Shinji when he was in wide open space. We know Kagawa likes to get the ball in those little pockets of space.
Not a big deal though. I'm sure the situation will be rectified this upcoming season.
Zidane was indeed slow, being French and growing up in late 90s I've seen pretty much all his games for France and can certainly assess his speed as slow. Now obviously if you take his weaknesses and say they were actually strengths, I'm going to find it hard to find anything to compare him to Kagawa with. As speed is a chief concern when assessing whether a central play-maker can be displayed on a wing, that comparison was indeed useful to prove my point.
Now, what is useless to prove yours is the observation that Kagawa got injured last season. After all he might get injured next season as well, and the one after that. His fitness was of no concern when he was selected on the pitch and had little to do, among other things, with his failings in front of the goal. If you get the no.10 slot in the Premier League you are going to have to rack up the goals because if you don't, nothing will justify you occupying this space rather than one of those box-to-box midfielders who additionally do the hard work at the back. Kagawa failed to do that last season (aside of one game), which compounded with other elements leads me to think he had a disappointing season.
Not disagreeing he had a disappointing season because he did, my argument was you did not put it in context at all there are many reasons why he did and your trying to say he is not a good player or the Premier league is tough is rubbish. He has to adjust physically and that is it. Zidane was not slow a player like Valeron, Riquelem and Pirlo they are slow Zidane no way. How can you compare Kagwawa to Zidane that is a ridiculous comparison he is not as good a player and they do not lay the same way, did you watch him at Dortmund? they do not have the same role playing on the left. Comparing them is like a BMW to a ferrari.
In a season a player is injured and out from October to January and it is the first season in a new league it makes sense that he struggle that season alongside being played out of position. If you have not seen an improvement when he has played in the middle you have poor observation skills and understanding of the game. Your clutching at straws man your whole post too many faults to address.
Reading this post, I come to realise how much of a shame it is for the new forum not to contain a spell-checker.
If comparing a Manchester United player operating in central attacking midfield to Zidane is like comparing a BMW to a Ferrari, and regardless of my general lack of knowledge about cars, I believe this says enough about the quality of said player.
And I'll take the Ferrari.
The spelling is fine, grammar may be rushed
. Zidane is the Ferrari so I would expect you to. They are not in the same class as players for you to use Zidane to justify your argument. BMW is still a good car is it not? Anyway my point stands put a bit more effort in when critiquing a player your comparisons and analysis was lazy.Weird.
Zidane and Kagawa may have similar pace, but Zidane in terms of technical and mental attributes is stronger in every category and was physically very strong, can't remember him ever being man-handled out of games. He was also very direct in his playing style, Kagawa is quite cautious and reluctant to hit the killer ball or strike the ball when the opportunity is on.. but hopefully under Moyes' guidance, this tendency will disappear and he'll be more likely to want to be a matchwinner.
There was a great change in his approach to the Brazil game and the Italy game in the way he took the game to the opponent. The way he played against Italy is how i envisage him at his best for us.
There was a great change in his approach to the Brazil game and the Italy game in the way he took the game to the opponent. The way he played against Italy is how i envisage him at his best for us.
There's so much more to come from him, if he asserts himself more and takes on more responsibility we are looking at a super player for us. Just seems to be happy popping the ball off nice and neatly at the moment, need him affecting things in the final third like he did for Dortmund.
Had disappointing distribution today especially after his performance against Italy. Just careless passes and wanting to poke the ball with the outside of his foot when its easier to get it right with his left foot, especially as he's such a two footed player. Still had his moments like the vision to set up Japan's goal with the ball to Endo at the back post, but Kagawa can do a lot better with his passing than he managed today.
That's a good thing though. Shows his potential.
Looked to me like had a good game. Got into space and was effective in the final third when necessary. His team just wasn't very good.
Kagawa's ball for the first goal was sensational. The guy's link-up play is amazing. Again, I would rather have Kagawa than Rooney behind the striker because he's more technical, agile, and proficient. He can be our Mata and Silva. I think what people - the ones who want him to play on the left - seem to miss is that Japan's system is different from ours. Kagawa tends to add more width when playing on the left and he does look lost. The Southampton game is an example of him looking lost on the left, tracking back, and it did hurt to see him being wasted. With Japan, however, he plays as an inside winger, with the full backs offering width. Silva also plays more as an inside inverted winger. If we can utilise a similar system, he will flourish, but the main priority at the moment is to ensure he plays in the central position he's best in, where he can provide what we want.
Are we comparing Kagawa to Zidane? 
Are we comparing Kagawa to Zidane?
Worse than the newbie section.
They're a different type of player, and even if they weren't, many very good players will look average in comparison.
Come on, even now Evra is one of the best in the league at overlapping and adding width so the left sided player doesn't need to. And in his last game for Japan he had Nagatomo, a completely right footed player trying to offer him support but needing to put the ball on his right foot, inside, to do anything with it. The formation isnt much different, but the amount of players in the Japan team who can do something with the ball and look to receive the ball all the time are much fewer so its only natural that Kagawa can be more involved. We as a team are extremely used to favouring buildup play down the right hand side as well, so at times no matter who is picked on the left, sometimes they get a little ignored so that we can move the ball towards the right hand side.
Are we comparing Kagawa to Zidane?
Kind of Rawkish, he's done nothing to merit it. As long as Kagawa can cement himself as a first team regular and be something close to Juan Mata for us, I'd be more than happy.
People should learn to read. No one compared Kagawa to Zidane in terms of quality.
I disagree. For a start, Evra doesn't offer the same energy and the instructions are clear for him, he's certainly more reserved, and nowhere near as adventurous as Nagatomo. But again, that has to do with team instructions and philosophy. There was the fixture against Southampton on that awful pitch, where Evra stayed back. In relation to Kagawa's positioning, it's much different. He cuts in more and is given a free role, which is why he can never be marked out of a game. It's also the opposite to what you said. Japan have players that engage in fast interplay and link-up better than most teams do. They have Honda, too, but the problem has always been that they've lacked a quality striker to finish off chances. All of their best work comes in the middle.
Performance vs. Italy:
Stop exaggerating. Bringing one game up from a 38 game season and suggesting he's reserved is stupid. Evra is one of the most attacking LB's in the word, any more adventurous and you might as well call him a left winger. Kagawa starts from the left and is given all the freedom to drift inside and I have as of yet seen nothing to contradict that (for United that is)
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