Shinji Kagawa

Status
Not open for further replies.
If Carrick got injured, how would people feel about seeing a Kagawa-Fellaini partnership in central midfield with Rooney dropping?

Not saying it would/should happen - just interested to hear opinions.

And yes, I know that Kagawa is not a central midfielder.
 
If Carrick got injured, how would people feel about seeing a Kagawa-Fellaini partnership in central midfield with Rooney dropping?

Not saying it would/should happen - just interested to hear opinions.

And yes, I know that Kagawa is not a central midfielder.

terrible idea... in any fantastic case, it should be the other way around. Rooney as CM would be better idea, but only if our whole midfield is injured.

edit: something like this could work against weaker sides out there... playing with 10 defenders.

------------Jones----------------
-----Rooney---------Kagawa-----
Nani---------RVP----------Januzaj
 
You know.. I was also under the impression that a Kagawa-Carrick midfield would be a terrible idea, and get overpowered at ease.. but thinking about it, would he really offer less defensively than Scholes did?

I know we wouldn't get the same level of control that Scholes brought us - but Carrick has taken that role up now, and Kagawa is decent at offering himself for a pass and keeping the ball moving so I'm not sure that would be a huge issue. He could apply pressure and niggle at players as well as Scholes, and has more pace to track back and cover runs.. He wouldn't make those poor tackles, but you could argue that those poor tackles were often good for the team in that they stopped the attack and allowed everybody to retreat and organize.

I don't see a great deal of difference defensively though - though I guess plenty of you might respond to this notion that you felt the Scholes-Carrick partnership got over run in the last few years anyway, in which case it being similar doesn't matter a great deal.
 
Cleverley can do all that you mention, and better than Kagawa.

Kagawa is a player that needs to be played up higer on the pitch to get the best out of him. He is a direct attacking player that will score goals and assist his attacking team mates. He cant do that from midfield.
 
Kagawa is fantastic at pressing centre-backs, we need him that high up the field. He's too lightweight to play in a two-man midfield. He'll get his chance...
 
Cleverley can do all that you mention, and better than Kagawa.

Kagawa is a player that needs to be played up higer on the pitch to get the best out of him. He is a direct attacking player that will score goals and assist his attacking team mates. He cant do that from midfield.

The criticisms of Cleverley have mostly been that he plays it too safe/incapable of creative balls, and that he isn't a goal threat from midfield. Kagawa would be an improvement in both of those areas.

I definitely don't think he could solve our midfield problems and he is defimitely better suited up the pitch.
But I'm not sure how he would make the midfield anymore lightweight than when we played Scholes there.. and I'm not sure that he couldn't offer everything Cleverley can, except that he would offer creativity and goals that Cleverley doesn't.

Rooney would be more suited.. but he has made it clear that he wants to play as a striker, and has even managed to now share the same role as Van Persie with no extra responsibility to drop.

Lets be honest the ideal solution is to buy a proper fecking midfielder. Kagawa in midfield might be makeshift and lightweight, but is it really worse than some of the other combinations we offer or have been offering.
 
And whether or not you agree with me has nothing to do with being a "hater". A hater is a person who reduces me to nothing but a Kagawa fanboy and disregards everything I write(even the stuff that has nothing to do with Kagawa) only on that basis. I've noticed people calling me out for writing posts about Kagawa when in fact those posts had absolutely nothing to do with Kagawa. That is the most hilarious part about the haters. They're so thick and paranoid they have to actively searchfor evidence of my fanboyism. They have to fabricate evidence in order to acutally get "valid" arguements.
True, you really do your best to not mention him in those posts.

Let's face it; even if we did sign Özil, he'd still have to play as a winger as long as Rooney is here.


#RooneyParadise #NoBalls #NoInnovation
 
It feels like everything has been said about Kagawa on both sides of the debate. The detractors, who cannot justify the hype based on what they have seen with their own eyes. The enthusiasts, who see what he did in Germany and long for it to be replicated here. The people who think he should be played on the left or through the centre, that he should change his game to fit in with us or that we should evolve to make the most of him.

What I really want to know is, was it true that he was shagging Ameri Ichinose?
 
I dont see any reason why we can't play Kagawa behind the front 2. He surely deserves some game time, i thought he was fantastic in the champions league game at Old Trafford.
 
It feels like everything has been said about Kagawa on both sides of the debate. The detractors, who cannot justify the hype based on what they have seen with their own eyes. The enthusiasts, who see what he did in Germany and long for it to be replicated here. The people who think he should be played on the left or through the centre, that he should change his game to fit in with us or that we should evolve to make the most of him.

What I really want to know is, was it true that he was shagging Ameri Ichinose?

Myth, they say. Rather stupid one too. Something to do with a German TV presenter. Who looked a bit like her. But he didn't shag her either. The presenter, that is. No luck anywhere for the poor sod.
 
Part of the problem is against United people pack their midfield, defend as a team and park the bus.

By the time we have Kagawa (when played on the left) on the ball in a central area, they often have 8+ people behind the ball, and the midfield is crowded from both sets of players (as Rooney doesn't move out to the left when Kagawa comes inside).

At this point it's hard to break them down, especially when our other attacking players don't tend to be on the same wavelength. Everybody but Kagawa and Van Persie (the two players we've brought in recently) look to spread it wide to the right and get in the box; of course - Kagawa now becomes useless.
 
Part of the problem is against United people pack their midfield, defend as a team and park the bus.

By the time we have Kagawa (when played on the left) on the ball in a central area, they often have 8+ people behind the ball, and the midfield is crowded from both sets of players (as Rooney doesn't move out to the left when Kagawa comes inside).

At this point it's hard to break them down, especially when our other attacking players don't tend to be on the same wavelength. Everybody but Kagawa and Van Persie (the two players we've brought in recently) look to spread it wide to the right and get in the box; of course - Kagawa now becomes useless.

I don't buy into this at all. It's still up to Kagawa to try and put his own swing on the game. Just as Januzaj did vs Sunderland.

While I admit that we are too reliant on the wings at times, if Kagawa was the player we though he'd be at this stage, our players would have more faith in him, instead of drilling it out to Valencia time and time again. He needs to come out of his shell.
 
One of Kagawa's best attributes is making cute, incisive passes with little space to work in and his first touch is probably as good as anyone's in the squad so playing against a packed defence shouldn't be that much of an issue. And if you watch his highlights from Dortmund he got the ball wide and made darting runs into the box plenty. We do play a fundamentally different style of football to Dortmund and it's pretty clear Kagawa was more suited to that style, but most of his issues so far have been down to his timidness on the ball. If he gets his confidence back he's still good enough to start for us and make a big impact even in a role that's not ideally suited to him.
 
"Nothing" is stretching it, don't you think? At least he got significantly better stats last season than all of our other wingers. These are the stats from all the PL and CL games:


Kagawa:
1505 min played, 6 goals, 6 assists = A goal/assist every 125 min

- Valencia: 2408 min played, 1 goals, 7 assists = A goal/assist every 301 min
- Welbeck: 1705 min played, 2 goals, 4 assists = A goal/assist every 284 min
- Young: 1395 min played, 0 goals, 5 assists = A goal/assist every 279 min
- Giggs: 1480 min played, 2 goals, 4 assists = A goal/assist every 247 min
- Nani: 893 min played, 1 goals, 4 assists = A goal/assist every 179 min

You make plenty of sense.....
The fans who think Kagawa has offered nothing since he joined United must be high on Angel Dust. His statistics prove he should be the first name on the team list but this is England, perspiration gets more credits than inspiration/technical skills. If we have Iniesta in our squad, many of our fans would prefer Phil Jones to him in the midfield.
 
You make plenty of sense.....
The fans who think Kagawa has offered nothing since he joined United must be high on Angel Dust. His statistics prove he should be the first name on the team list but this is England, perspiration gets more credits than inspiration/technical skills. If we have Iniesta in our squad, many of our fans would prefer Phil Jones to him in the midfield.

:wenger:
 
One of Kagawa's best attributes is making cute, incisive passes with little space to work in and his first touch is probably as good as anyone's in the squad so playing against a packed defence shouldn't be that much of an issue. And if you watch his highlights from Dortmund he got the ball wide and made darting runs into the box plenty. We do play a fundamentally different style of football to Dortmund and it's pretty clear Kagawa was more suited to that style, but most of his issues so far have been down to his timidness on the ball. If he gets his confidence back he's still good enough to start for us and make a big impact even in a role that's not ideally suited to him.

Sure, but that was my point about wavelength.. The amount of times I see Kagawa with space in a great position in and around the box is incredible, what's more annoying is the amount the ball is moved wide rather than trying to play a one-two with him or whatever else. In Dortmund they would link up well with cute little passes, but if Kagawa is the only one capable or willing then it's not quite the same. In those games, if we aren't spreading the ball wide then the likes of Rooney are having pops from outside the box.

He definitely needs to be more assertive though and ask for the ball, and of course the more he shows what he can do the more players will trust him with it.
 
I don't really see why anyone would now be angry/confused about the lack of minutes that Kagawa is getting. I understood at the start of the season when Young was being picked for seemingly no logical reason whatsoever, but now that he's been rightfully dropped I really don't see what the fuss is about.

There are only a few United players that have earned the right to play for several games when out of form, in order to regain said form: I'd say Carrick, Rooney, DDG and RVP. Everyone else has to show something to earn game time. Nani is now showing it and has rightfully displaced Valencia. Likewise Januzaj should get a run of games now after his last 2-3 performances.

Kagawa will still get game time and it is up to him to prove that he can add more to the team than the player's he is competing with. As it stands I'd say he's rightfully behind Januzaj and Nani (the latter if Valencia starts on the right).

As an aside I still feel Rooney won't be here after next Summer, given his contract situation. This being the case there is very much a long term future for him here if he actually starts to show what he can do.
 
You make plenty of sense.....
The fans who think Kagawa has offered nothing since he joined United must be high on Angel Dust. His statistics prove he should be the first name on the team list but this is England, perspiration gets more credits than inspiration/technical skills. If we have Iniesta in our squad, many of our fans would prefer Phil Jones to him in the midfield.


Those statistics dont tell the full story though. 3 of those goals came against Norwich in one game. I think hes a very talented player playing in a side hes never going to adapt to,
 
You make plenty of sense.....
The fans who think Kagawa has offered nothing since he joined United must be high on Angel Dust. His statistics prove he should be the first name on the team list but this is England, perspiration gets more credits than inspiration/technical skills. If we have Iniesta in our squad, many of our fans would prefer Phil Jones to him in the midfield.

Bollocks. And bollocks to the part about Jones/Iniesta too.
 
I don't really see why anyone would now be angry/confused about the lack of minutes that Kagawa is getting. I understood at the start of the season when Young was being picked for seemingly no logical reason whatsoever, but now that he's been rightfully dropped I really don't see what the fuss is about.

There are only a few United players that have earned the right to play for several games when out of form, in order to regain said form: I'd say Carrick, Rooney, DDG and RVP. Everyone else has to show something to earn game time. Nani is now showing it and has rightfully displaced Valencia. Likewise Januzaj should get a run of games now after his last 2-3 performances.

Kagawa will still get game time and it is up to him to prove that he can add more to the team than the player's he is competing with. As it stands I'd say he's rightfully behind Januzaj and Nani (the latter if Valencia starts on the right).

As an aside I still feel Rooney won't be here after next Summer, given his contract situation. This being the case there is very much a long term future for him here if he actually starts to show what he can do.

I think Rooney's form in the last few games have been exaggerated. He scored a great consolation goal against City, but overall he was just the best of a bad bunch. Against Sunderland he was horrendous until the last 20 minutes. That's ignoring the fact that he's a striker playing in the "playmaker" position. He offers little penetration through the center, he lays the ball off to the wingers, perpetuating our stupid pattern of inaccurate cross after inaccurate desperate cross.

He's a great player at his best, but it wouldn't hurt to give Kagawa a run and see how he operates. If he flunks the chance, fine, give the position back to Rooney. I mean, Rooney has been our best attacking player this season, yet we didn't score a goal from open play for how many games? Something's not adding up.
 
Have to agree w the sentiments on Kagawa. Like him a lot but would be good if Mad Winger can tone it down a notch - it does get slightly tiresome at times mate.

I think you've just got to get the balance right.
 
I think Rooney's form in the last few games have been exaggerated. He scored a great consolation goal against City, but overall he was just the best of a bad bunch. Against Sunderland he was horrendous until the last 20 minutes. That's ignoring the fact that he's a striker playing in the "playmaker" position. He offers little penetration through the center, he lays the ball off to the wingers, perpetuating our stupid pattern of inaccurate cross after inaccurate desperate cross.

He's a great player at his best, but it wouldn't hurt to give Kagawa a run and see how he operates. If he flunks the chance, fine, give the position back to Rooney. I mean, Rooney has been our best attacking player this season, yet we didn't score a goal from open play for how many games? Something's not adding up.


I think that is one area where perhaps Kagawa, or a player of his type could offer is something.

If Rooney does want a more attacking role then I think that could cause issues later down the line, I just don't think you can play with two strikers against the best teams, particularly us currently where we don't have that solidity in the middle. If he is happy to drop deeper though then you'd have to say right now he deserves his spot over Kagawa.

That said whilst Rooney is a better player in general and offers us more goals, someone who will more naturally play a deeper role might make the team better. Defensively someone like Kagawa won't work as hard as Rooney, but maybe they'll help us keep the ball better by taking up more deeper positions to aid the central midfielders and give them another short option.

Offensively Rooney when he is at his best is devestating but we don't see that often. I don't mean his goal threat I mean the Rooney who will pick the ball up and run at people through the middle. Normally Rooney plays that role on a half turn, angling himself to make the wide pass. I think a lot of other clubs have players in that role that will pick it up fully turn to fact the opposition, and I think that just open up more passing options.

That said Kagawa simply hasn't been forceful enough in his appearances and is too prone to let the game pass him by. So whether he's the answer there remains to be seen but I suppose unless we try it, we won't know. But then the other issue there is that he will need players making certain runs for him. For example to me he needs people like nani and januzaj who will cut inside, but there will be times where someone like Valencia is the best option wide. That's an area where maybe Kagawa needs to adapt his game, to be able to offer something when he doesn't have multiple people he can play off.

Still personally I'd like to see the 4 of rvp, rooney, nani and kagawa given a run, I really think it'd work. That said I'd also love to see RVP/Rooney with januzaj, kagawa and nani playing off them. But as much as maybe if we do let him go, we could say that we perhaps didn't give him enough opportunity to show what he can really bring, and who knows maybe Fergie had bigger plans for him, we can also say that currently Kagawa hasn't done enough to demand a spot, certainly when you contrast how Januzaj has performed in his appearances you can say there's a clear difference there.
 
I think Rooney's form in the last few games have been exaggerated. He scored a great consolation goal against City, but overall he was just the best of a bad bunch. Against Sunderland he was horrendous until the last 20 minutes. That's ignoring the fact that he's a striker playing in the "playmaker" position. He offers little penetration through the center, he lays the ball off to the wingers, perpetuating our stupid pattern of inaccurate cross after inaccurate desperate cross.

He's a great player at his best, but it wouldn't hurt to give Kagawa a run and see how he operates. If he flunks the chance, fine, give the position back to Rooney. I mean, Rooney has been our best attacking player this season, yet we didn't score a goal from open play for how many games? Something's not adding up.


You don't have to preach to me regarding Rooney. My opinion is that he's as disruptive for the team as he is contributory. It is however a fact that Rooney will start when fit, just like RVP. In order to get him to sign a new contract he is bulletproof in the number 10 position, so until he is either sold or signs an extension Kagawa will not get a look in in that position.

It is however important to point out that no-one has staked a claim for his position regardless, particularly Kagawa. He's going to have to prove himself from the left, which is something he has not yet come close to doing. The fact is an 18 year old probably nervy youngster has come in to the team and looked twice the player thus far, so now he has to get ahead of him as well.
 
Those statistics dont tell the full story though. 3 of those goals came against Norwich in one game. I think hes a very talented player playing in a side hes never going to adapt to,

Kudos to him for scoring a hatrick from open play. Not too many strikers have achieved that in England, let alone a midfielder. Kagawa can adapt if he's played in his natural position. If we had signed Cesc, none of us here would say he should adapt his game by playing as an inverted winger. Why should Kagawa play on the left when Rooney isn't creating much in the hole? Rooney's goals from set-plays cannot be affected if he plays on the left, will it?
 
You don't have to preach to me regarding Rooney. My opinion is that he's as disruptive for the team as he is contributory. It is however a fact that Rooney will start when fit, just like RVP. In order to get him to sign a new contract he is bulletproof in the number 10 position, so until he is either sold or signs an extension Kagawa will not get a look in in that position.

It is however important to point out that no-one has staked a claim for his position regardless, particularly Kagawa. He's going to have to prove himself from the left, which is something he has not yet come close to doing. The fact is an 18 year old probably nervy youngster has come in to the team and looked twice the player thus far, so now he has to get ahead of him as well.

In his preferred position. It's not farfetched to assume you get the best out of players when you play them in familiar roles.

But it seems we agree on the main points so I'll step down from the podium.
 
erm......:lol:



The lyrics are as follows:
His first name’s Shinji, Shinji Shinji; His second name’s Kagawa, Kagawa, Kagawa He’s Carrick midfield partner, partner, partner; His grandad bombed Pearl Harbour, Pearl Harbour, Pearl Harbour.

Not sure how this will go down with our American fan base or the easily offended.
 
That's a pretty terrible song tbh. I know that it's supposed to be tongue in cheek, but that is still quite a sensitive issue for many Japanese. I doubt many Americans will be offended, I would imagine it will be rather awkward for Japanese and some other Asian countries. In many ways WW2 is still sort of an unresolved issue for lots in Asia.
 
The elephant in the room right now is RvP, he really hasn't looked half-arsed for some time. I wouldn't mind seeing Januzaj--Kagawa--Nani starting behind Rooney. Not against Southampton, mind.
 
TBF that tune has potential, albeit it does need better lyrics. :lol:

The most offensive part is a Carrick-Kagawa midfield two. :nervous:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.