Shinji Kagawa

Status
Not open for further replies.
Our trequartista has been FREED

What a performance from Shinji.....minus the chance he missed, he gave a flawless performance tonight. His link-up play with Rooney was delightful to watch. More of this please.
 
He was excellent in the second half and really benefited from Giggs being positive in possession through the middle.
 
He was very good in the second half, and carried on when moved into the middle which was great to see. Hopefully that is further encouragement to Moyes to take the risk and drop one of Van Persie or Rooney(likely the former at this moment in time) and give Kagawa a full game in the middle. Pair that with a couple of mobile wingers in Januzaj and Nani and we really could have something. Tonight was certainly a step forward for him.
 
Grew into the game, I was starting to worry it was going to be another misfiring performance from him in the early moments but he just got better and better. The move into the middle was the icing on the cake of a superb performance, was off my seat screaming and willing him to score the Valencia rebound as that really would have topped it off.
Great options and now Moyes has a massive problem that is nothing but a positive one to have, RVP must be shitting himself.
 
I know we're all guilty of it at times, but the clamouring to declare Kagawa a wonderful no.10 and one to build the team around on the basis of tonight is bandwagoning at its finest. A good number of us have been saying it for ages that he should be the focal point of our attack and all he needs is a run of game to build his confidence.

van Persie has been poor by his own standards this season and Rooney was excellent for the opening four games but has tailed off since. Shinji has rarely even featured but has shown glimpses of his technical prowess and abilities which indicate his importance to the type of football we want to play. I hope the penny has dropped with Moyes now and that he'll play Kagawa in his favoured position more often, along with Nani and Januzaj.

A front four of Nani - Kagawa - Januzaj; van Persie/Rooney is just orgasmic.
 
i dont like the idea, but the only way both can play and play in where they want to is the diamond:


Rafael......CB................CB..........Evra....

.......................Carrick......................

............Cleverley........Giggs................

....................Kagawa..................

.............Rooney.......Van Persie.........

And i feel that would have to mean no start for fellaini as at least some useful width has to provided from the middle two. i want to see them both in, but dont think it can work.
 
nahealai said:
I know we're all guilty of it at times, but the clamouring to declare Kagawa a wonderful no.10 and one to build the team around on the basis of tonight is bandwagoning at its finest. A good number of us have been saying it for ages that he should be the focal point of our attack and all he needs is a run of game to build his confidence.

van Persie has been poor by his own standards this season and Rooney was excellent for the opening four games but has tailed off since. Shinji has rarely even featured but has shown glimpses of his technical prowess and abilities which indicate his importance to the type of football we want to play. I hope the penny has dropped with Moyes now and that he'll play Kagawa in his favoured position more often, along with Nani and Januzaj.

A front four of Nani - Kagawa - Januzaj; van Persie/Rooney is just orgasmic.
Click to expand...

He doesn't necessarily have to play in the hole though always. He can play like he did today for the majority of the game, as almost a third midfielder, but sort of a left winger as well, while we have both RVP and Rooney on, as long as we have someone like Giggs or Cleverley in the middle and not Fellaini next to Carrick.
Our team today looked like this most of the time..
Hernandez​
--------------Rooney------Valencia​
Kagawa------------​
Giggs Carrick​
Evra Evans Jones Rafael​
DDG​
Kagawa was pretty much given a free role to go deep and drift inwards forming a midfield 3, Valencia stayed out wide right, and Rooney and Hernandez played their normal positions with nobody getting in each others way. Replace Hernandez with RVP and Valencia for Nani and theoretically, that should still work brilliantly, even better then today, and get the best out of everyone.​
 
He was pretty good tonight, but are you not seeing a pattern here? I wrote before the game against Leverkuson that I felt Shinji would be utilized a lot in Europe this season, where he seems to perform better. He played 90 minutes today, I wouldn't be surprised at all to not see him on Saturday vs Stoke and see Nani/Janujaz instead.
 
You got to love the cafe.

Kagawa had a good performance tonight but Moyes is not going to be suddenly start playing Kagawa in the n10 position at the expense of RVP or Rooney. Christ, most of his good performance was actually from the left tonight and he got 15 minutes against a knackered defence with loads of space. He might not even start against Stoke after the impressive recent form of Januzaj, who deserves a start more than most, although I would like to see in the EPL this weekend. The only way he will start as the 10 Saturday is if RVP is injured and even then Hernandez might start over him.

He's far more likely to play the 10 role against Norwich with Hernandez as his partner and the likes of Young and Valencia outside him which I would be happy to see. Hopefully Cleverley would be back fit and he can be one of the two central players with Carrick given a much needed rest.
 
Kagawa is good. However very rare is the player that has absolute confidence in their own ability, and even rarer is that player with actual skill. Like most players Shinji needs two things to thrive, playing time and the confidence of the manager and coaches. Once the player feels they have the confidence and they get playing time they will play at their best.

Heres to seeing Kagawa finally get consistent playing time and Moyes demonstrating real confidence in him.
 
Nucks said:
Kagawa is good. However very rare is the player that has absolute confidence in their own ability, and even rarer is that player with actual skill. Like most players Shinji needs two things to thrive, playing time and the confidence of the manager and coaches. Once the player feels they have the confidence and they get playing time they will play at their best.

Heres to seeing Kagawa finally get consistent playing time and Moyes demonstrating real confidence in him.
Click to expand...

You could tell with the chances he had that he was lacking in some confidence. Getting more match time will only help give him some confidence back. A fully confident Kagawa who was a consistent feature in the team would have scored 1 or 2 goals today, maybe even more (definitely would have struck the Valencia cut back first time instead of taking a touch). We can only hope he stays in the team because Kagawa on form is an absolutely brilliant player.
 
I'm not sure he realises just how good he can be for us. It just looks like he's holding back all the time and that there are a few more gears in there. He had a good game and should have a consistent run in the team now, it's the only way we are going to get him properly integrated.
 
Rooney's agent has had his piece printed anyway.
Kagawa is not good enough to wing it at United... and his is understudy to Rooney for No 10 role
Each week a Japanese television crew turn up at Old Trafford in the hope that Shinji Kagawa starts for Manchester United.
Around an hour before kick-off there are usually forlorn looks and sad faces when the team sheets are distributed: No Shinji, no footage to send back home.
On Wednesday night it was different, with genuine delight on their faces when the forgotten man of Manchester United was handed a rare start. Tokyo was put on stand-by for something special.
He was in the team to face Real Sociedad in the Champions League, picked to play on the left in only his fourth start of the season.
The Japan international prefers the role in the hole, the No 10 position behind the main striker, but he will take anything right now.
It was a rare chance to shine in a big Champions League group game; an opportunity to be involved in the action from the very beginning. He comes with pedigree after a stellar career with Borussia Dortmund but he has struggled to adapt to the physical demands of English football.
Manager David Moyes wants durable athletes; robust players who can tackle first and send the sweet touches towards Wayne Rooney second. That’s his way.
Kagawa’s a luxury item, expendable the moment Moyes convinces himself that this team will need to dig in for a result.
He is committed to a second season at United, determined to force his way into the team and flourish the moment he gets a run in the side. On Saturday, when they play Stoke, he can expect to be among the substitutes again.
This was not his night, not even with excitable TV cameras from home trained on his every touch. He didn’t get nearly enough.
Kagawa wants to play in Rooney’s position, but he doesn’t have the work-rate of his rival for a place in the team. Rooney was excellent.
Kagawa remains the first reserve for Rooney: on the fringes of a team that is still settling into their rhythm under a new manager.
The fixture had rotation written all over it; a night for the squad players to get a run-out against this struggling Sociedad side.
They have a long tradition of top-class wingers at United, something that is stitched into the heritage of the club.
George Best, Steve Coppell, Andrei Kanchelskis and Ryan Giggs are among some of the greatest names in United history to race down either wing at Old Trafford. Kagawa is nowhere near their class.
He wasn’t involved nearly enough in United’s good moves and when he had the chance to score, he fluffed his lines.
There was a moment of brilliance in the second half when he managed to pull off Zinedine Zidane’s ‘roulette’ trick in the centre of the pitch.
It was a magical move, ending only when Claudio Bravo saved well from Rooney’s drive.
Sadly for Kagawa, he’s still out of focus.
Click to expand...
Bringing up Best, Coppell, Kanchelskis and Giggs. :lol::lol:
 
Well done David, I was a little disappointed he didn't praise him when Shreeves asked him about Rooney's performance, so I'm pleased he did it in the post match conference. Good stuff, hopefully it will give Kagawa the confidence he needs. I think he'll start him against Stoke.
 
Shark22 said:
Good words, but the part about 'first time I've seen Shinji' and 'everybody tells me about him' is still as baffling as ever. He's said that a few times now and it sounds even more odd now, seeing as he's been our manager for long enough at this stage.
Click to expand...

Yeah, pretty shocking really. Sounds like everyone has been telling him how good he was but Moyes seemed to think he was shit and was surprised that he's actually quite good from today. Weird.
 
Shark22 said:
Good words, but the part about 'first time I've seen Shinji' and 'everybody tells me about him' is still as baffling as ever. He's said that a few times now and it sounds even more odd now, seeing as he's been our manager for long enough at this stage.
Click to expand...


I don't find it baffling at all. He hasn't seen Shinji do what everyone says he's capable of until now. It's just another way to motivate a player. Every player is motivated by different things. Seems to have worked, so the problem would be what?
 
"I thought when we put him into the no.10 role, and even after it, he was good with Wayne. His attitude and energy were excellent and I was pleased for him."

I like that statement from Moyes, seems to augur well for shinji's playing time as #10
 
Kid Cunto said:
Rooney's agent has had his piece printed anyway.
Kagawa is not good enough to wing it at United... and his is understudy to Rooney for No 10 role

Bringing up Best, Coppell, Kanchelskis and Giggs. :lol::lol:
Click to expand...

He wasn’t involved nearly enough in United’s good moves and when he had the chance to score, he fluffed his lines.
Click to expand...

Ashton was at Old Trafford tonight, albeit with a bucket his head apparently.

Oh and how patronising to the Japanese was the beginning of that article?
 
ravelston said:
Nice idea, but it could result in our being torn apart at the other end. Better might be


Nani/Januzaj---Kagawa---Welbeck

-------------RvP/Rooney
Click to expand...
Why would we be torn apart at the other end? We're fine defensively playing nani and januzaj on the wings with Rooney and Rvp up top. Playing nani, januzaj and Kagawa behind Rooney would be more secure if anything compared to what we do normally as we'd be much better in possession. No idea why so many people have this obsession with hard working defensive wingers. Nani and januzaj both work hard so it's not like they'll just let their runners go free all the time or anything.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
I don't find it baffling at all. He hasn't seen Shinji do what everyone says he's capable of until now. It's just another way to motivate a player. Every player is motivated by different things. Seems to have worked, so the problem would be what?
Click to expand...


I don't see a problem with it, I just personally find the wording a bit odd. Surely he doesn't need other people to tell him how good one of his own players is.
 
Shark22 said:
I don't see a problem with it, I just personally find the wording a bit odd. Surely he doesn't need other people to tell him how good one of his own players is.
Click to expand...


Right, he doesn't. And he's not saying that. He's saying he hasn't seen the Shinji live, in person, on the pitch, perform what he's capable of until now.
 
Shark22 said:
Good words, but the part about 'first time I've seen Shinji' and 'everybody tells me about him' is still as baffling as ever. He's said that a few times now and it sounds even more odd now, seeing as he's been our manager for long enough at this stage.
Click to expand...

Was it not said that Moyes restricted himself to a small core of the squad earlier on in his time here? I suppose words like that support such a possibility.

His seeming ignorance of Kagawa's potential however, well that is a bit odd after 4 months in the job and the fixtures last season. Either Moyes has chosen not to do homework like that or it is delegated to others. Sir Alex was by his very nature somebody who would keep himself apprised of as much as possible, so in that light it does sound unusual.
 
Shark22 said:
Good words, but the part about 'first time I've seen Shinji' and 'everybody tells me about him' is still as baffling as ever. He's said that a few times now and it sounds even more odd now, seeing as he's been our manager for long enough at this stage.
Click to expand...

Metaphorical powers of deduction aren't your strong point, I take it?
 
I know I should be happy that Moyes FINALLY has "seen" Kagawa, but the interview just seems disgustingly defensive to me. He knows that people have criticized him for not playing Kagawa, so seeing him play so well tonight obviously feels bittersweet for him, since he's still trying to convince the world that he's right for the job. The exclusion of Kagawa has arguably been his boldest decision, so it's naturally gonna feel extra bad whenever Kagawa proves his decision to be wrong, like he did today. Especially considering Kagawa's playstyle. When he plays well, the world is left with a huge questionmark as to how it is even possible to bench him when we're generally struggling to create chances.

Just look at these comments!

- "I thought it was Shinji's best game in my time here"
A compliment, sure, but the underlying tone screams: "the exclusion of Shinji has been justified. He was just particularly good today." This is only further strengthened in his next sentence.

- "He hadn't really found his feet yet but I saw something from Shinji tonight which I hadn't seen in other games, so I was really pleased"
He could have stopped with his first sentence. He didn't have to add this at all. It totally seems like he's trying to save face. Kagawa hadn't been given too many chances before tonight, and when he did play he was by no means bad. But that's exactly what Moyes makes it sound like! And even if it was true that Kagawa had struggled so far, there's still no point in telling the media! That just bad managing. But if that wasn't enough...

- "With Shinji, everybody tells me about his ability and what he has got, but tonight is the first time I’ve really seen Shinji"
Again he's stressing that tonight was just a "rarity", and that he's been right to keep him out. The defensiveness is just sad at this point. And also, how the hell could this be "news" to him anyways? Kagawa had a great game against Everton last season! Did Moyes sleep on the touchline? But even if he did, then he must surely have watched a couple of United games while he was still an Everton coach? Kagawa had several games on this level(or higher) last season. Did he not catch even a glimpse of them on video? And then there's the fecking training ground, where Rio has hailed Kagawa as the best player after Scholes retired(incidently when Moyes took over).

Seriously, Moyes.. You either admit that you've been mistaken, or you just hand out regular praise(Fergie style). Whatever you do, you don't start making excuses! Didn't he also say that we need a bunch of big signings in order to compete a few weeks back? I must say that I'm not impressed with some of the things he says. Fergie would say outrageous things as well, but at least he didn't bring the team down.
 
Mad Winger said:
I know I should be happy that Moyes FINALLY has "seen" Kagawa, but the interview just seems disgustingly defensive to me. He knows that people have criticized him for not playing Kagawa, so seeing him play so well tonight obviously feels bittersweet for him, since he's still trying to convince the world that he's right for the job. The exclusion of Kagawa has arguably been his boldest decision, so it's naturally gonna feel extra bad whenever Kagawa proves his decision to be wrong, like he did today. Especially considering Kagawa's playstyle. When he plays well, the world is left with a huge questionmark as to how it is even possible to bench him when we're generally struggling to create chances.

Just look at these comments!

- "I thought it was Shinji's best game in my time here"
A compliment, sure, but the underlying tone screams: "the exclusion of Shinji has been justified. He was just particularly good today." This is only further strengthened in his next sentence.

- "He hadn't really found his feet yet but I saw something from Shinji tonight which I hadn't seen in other games, so I was really pleased"
He could have stopped with his first sentence. He didn't have to add this at all. It totally seems like he's trying to save face. Kagawa hadn't been given too many chances before tonight, and when he did play he was by no means bad. But that's exactly what Moyes makes it sound like! And even if it was true that Kagawa had struggled so far, there's no point in telling the media! That just seems totally wrong. But if that wasn't enough...

- "With Shinji, everybody tells me about his ability and what he has got, but tonight is the first time I’ve really seen Shinji"
Again he's stressing that tonight was just a "rarity", and that he's been right to keep him out. The defensiveness is just sad at this point. And also, how the hell could this be "news" to him anyways? Kagawa had a great game against Everton last season! Did Moyes sleep on the touchline? But even if he did, then he must surely have watched a couple of United games while he was still an Everton coach? Kagawa had several games on this level(or higher) last season. Did he not catch even a glimpse of them on video? And then there's the fecking training ground, where Rio has hailed Kagawa as the best player after Scholes retired(incidently when Moyes took over).

Seriously, Moyes.. You either admit that you've been mistaken, or you just hand out regular praise(Fergie style). Whatever you do, you don't start making excuses! Didn't he also say that we need a bunch of big signings in order to compete a few weeks back? I must say that I'm not impressed with some of the things he says. Fergie would say outrageous things as well, but at least he didn't bring the team down.
Click to expand...

I'm a massive Kagawa fan but maybe you have to take it at face value. He's playing players on merit and he wanted Kagawa to show him what he can do rather than just listen to everyone else.

It'd have been much weaker management if he was playing someone because the media and fans were crying about what a top player was being wasted.
 
Hannibal said:
Our trequartista has been FREED

What a performance from Shinji.....minus the chance he missed, he gave a flawless performance tonight. His link-up play with Rooney was delightful to watch. More of this please.
Click to expand...

Yep. I've said this moons ago that Rooney-Kagawa has the potential to be a better partnership than Rooney and else. Was it last season or so? Kagawa scored two and assist one to Rooney in a league game. Although I understand the big reluctant on dropping v. Persie, though.
 
Pexbo said:
He's playing players on merit and he wanted Kagawa to show him what he can do rather than just listen to everyone else.
Click to expand...

My whole point is: why does Kagawa have to prove anything to Moyes, yet RVP and Rooney don't? If Rio isn't completely retarded with his quotes, then Kagawa is doing at least as well as both of these players in training.

Moyes is definitely playing RVP/Rooney based on their reputation and what he has seen them do before he came to United. If he didn't, then they would have been dropped after "poor performances", just like Kagawa has been. Moyes keeps playing them because he knows how good they are. My point is therefore: why doesn't he know how good Kagawa is? I'll tell you why: because he doesn't rate him. It will take several games like the one tonight before Moyes will be fully convinced. I just hope Kagawa will be able to do it. Being tossed in every 3rd or 4th game and expected to perform top notch is not easy when you're still in the adjustment stage, and a playmaker at that.
 
Mad Winger said:
I know I should be happy that Moyes FINALLY has "seen" Kagawa, but the interview just seems disgustingly defensive to me. He knows that people have criticized him for not playing Kagawa, so seeing him play so well tonight obviously feels bittersweet for him, since he's still trying to convince the world that he's right for the job. The exclusion of Kagawa has arguably been his boldest decision, so it's naturally gonna feel extra bad whenever Kagawa proves his decision to be wrong, like he did today. Especially considering Kagawa's playstyle. When he plays well, the world is left with a huge questionmark as to how it is even possible to bench him when we're generally struggling to create chances.

Just look at these comments!

- "I thought it was Shinji's best game in my time here"
A compliment, sure, but the underlying tone screams: "the exclusion of Shinji has been justified. He was just particularly good today." This is only further strengthened in his next sentence.

- "He hadn't really found his feet yet but I saw something from Shinji tonight which I hadn't seen in other games, so I was really pleased"
He could have stopped with his first sentence. He didn't have to add this at all. It totally seems like he's trying to save face. Kagawa hadn't been given too many chances before tonight, and when he did play he was by no means bad. But that's exactly what Moyes makes it sound like! And even if it was true that Kagawa had struggled so far, there's still no point in telling the media! That just bad managing. But if that wasn't enough...

- "With Shinji, everybody tells me about his ability and what he has got, but tonight is the first time I’ve really seen Shinji"
Again he's stressing that tonight was just a "rarity", and that he's been right to keep him out. The defensiveness is just sad at this point. And also, how the hell could this be "news" to him anyways? Kagawa had a great game against Everton last season! Did Moyes sleep on the touchline? But even if he did, then he must surely have watched a couple of United games while he was still an Everton coach? Kagawa had several games on this level(or higher) last season. Did he not catch even a glimpse of them on video? And then there's the fecking training ground, where Rio has hailed Kagawa as the best player after Scholes retired(incidently when Moyes took over).

Seriously, Moyes.. You either admit that you've been mistaken, or you just hand out regular praise(Fergie style). Whatever you do, you don't start making excuses! Didn't he also say that we need a bunch of big signings in order to compete a few weeks back? I must say that I'm not impressed with some of the things he says. Fergie would say outrageous things as well, but at least he didn't bring the team down.
Click to expand...
I hate the kind of lazy comment I'm about to make, but it has to be said: you really need to take it easy. I'm not crazy about Moyes' use of Kagawa either, but it doesn't need to turn into an Oliver Stone movie.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.