Thought it was his best game of the season tonight.
Shinji Kagawa
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Thought it was his best game of the season tonight.
I didn't quote you or anything, I was more addressing the attitude that some seem to have that he never plays very well, and anyone praising him is overrating him.
He's just so good, and he makes those around him so good. He and Giggs clearly worked well together today. Imo, a much better number ten than Rooney, but then there is Rooney's stats to consider, which are mindblowing to say the least these days!
I'm not trying to discredit anyones performance tonight, but they were clearly absolutely shit. The worst team we've played this season. 9 goals in two games whilst we're not at our best is a testament to their complete mediocrity.
Not really no apparent reason though is it. With Kagawa in the hole, it's obvious we play a lot more fluid football.
He was very good tonight, still playing within himself..needs to add goals and assists to his game.
This is it. It was the same in the Newbies, and it's clearly the same here. The exact same faces on each side of the argument every time.
Kagawa was very good tonight. His presence links the play between midfield and attack very effectively and it's that kind of player we need in the hole to move forward and play more dynamic football. All of Rooney, Valencia, Nani and Kagawa, particularly when successfully fed the ball by Carrick or an on form Giggs, can make for some great football.
No, just the truth in this instance. Haha, you think I didn't enjoy that? Doesn't mean I'm going to get carried away, they are no Dortmund or Munich. Far bigger challenges await in the knockout stages.
After our performances this season it was fecking brilliant to watch us tear a side apart, regardless of who they were and Leverkusen are clearly a good side, just that we showed tonight that we're much better.
We're not a club that trashes regularly its opponents so a 5-0 win will be appreciated without even asking myself if the opponent was good or not.
They're still a very good team though. They can definitely hold their own against the likes of Dortmund or Munich, despite us tearing them apart and making them look shit. Of course had it been City or Arsenal people would be saying "Best team in the country, serious contenders", yet when it's United who wins, it's "Leverkusen were poor, gifted us the goals" despite us dominating the game.
Indubitably
Superb tonight. More of the same please Shinji 
I was so pleased to see him start in the middle behind Wayne. Hopefully it'll give Moyes something to think about!
It's bizarre to see what a different player Kagawa is behind the strikers compared to playing on the left.
Am I crazy in hoping to see Rooney + RVP up front with Kagawa behind them one day?
Although you'd play without wingers then which is a bit un-United like...
Or perhaps just playing Rooney up front with Kagawa behind him and RVP on the bench? Although that sounds even crazier...
Am I crazy in hoping to see Rooney + RVP up front with Kagawa behind them one day?
Although you'd play without wingers then which is a bit un-United like...
Or perhaps just playing Rooney up front with Kagawa behind him and RVP on the bench? Although that sounds even crazier...
Except we didn't really make them look poor tonight, they looked inept all on their own. They looked timid and that didn't really have anything to do with what we did. We were very good and professional but they really underperformed.
Unfortunately for him, as soon as RVP is fit he'll be back on the left.
Played in his proper postition for once.
It's a nice problem to have for Moyes. It's virtually impossible to leave out a fit Rooney or van Persie whilst it can't be easy having to disappoint Kagawa or Hernandez almost every game.
So good tonight. There must be a way to get him regularly in the team in the centre, as well as Rooney and RVP?
No, there isn't. RVP has to play right up top whenever fit. And Rooney has to play behind the striker. That's the way it is. He's unlucky. Only way it can work is by starting Kagawa on the left and persuading Rooney to change positions with him during the game.
or a 4231 with Kagawa Rooney and another
I'd be tempted to keep him and Rooney for the next game. They looked really slick together. There was a craftiness to our passing from midfield that's been sorely lacking. His ability to thread the needle and attempt the difficult passes is amongst the best in our team. Credit to him and Giggsy for running the show so well.
He does look that much more comfortable in that role. Of course Van Persie's ability always complicates things for him though.
He does look that much more comfortable in that role. Of course Van Persie's ability always complicates things for him though.
Not unless he plays a diamond when Kagawa at the tip and RVP and Rooney up top. He won't be doing that as it won't get the best from the team and I reckon will inhibit Rooney.
Or you could play a 3 at the back, like Liverpool/Villa did. Wouldn't mind us trying something like that because none of our winger are screaming to be in the team consistently.
I'd love to see us go 443 with Rooney in the David Villa role. With the right movement in behind defences, Kagawa could feed Rooney, Van Persie plus another all day long. It really is counter-productive when Moyes plays with a 442. Rooney gets plaudits for his goals and energy, yet if you look tonight in what I'm certain is his best position, we get a genuine subtlety through the centre and a Rooney that actually plays some excellent football. 4 assists, no goals, yet better football. I know what I would rather see. If Rooney can still score goals, which I think he would if tucked out as a left-sided forward, then I think everybody is happy. Instead, we'll go back to our static 442, Kagawa will look half the player and our football will consist of watching Evra whack crosses into the box all day.
We could alternatively go for a 4-3-3 ala Barca with 3 "strikers" and offensive fullbacks.
-------- Carrick -------
-- Cleverley - Kagawa -
Valencia - RVP - Rooney
Rooney is more than versatile enough to play the "Neymar"-role without it affecting his play. Valencia's offensive abilities are also underrated I think. Alternatively we have Nani and Januzaj ready to jump in and take that spot.
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Still, the best solution is probably to bench RVP right now. Today was a great example of what happens when we play an actual CAM in the no.10 role, instead of sitting back like scared little girls, praying for Rooney and RVP to create magic out of nothing.
-------- Carrick -------
-- Cleverley - Kagawa -
Valencia - RVP - Rooney
Rooney is more than versatile enough to play the "Neymar"-role without it affecting his play. Valencia's offensive abilities are also underrated I think. Alternatively we have Nani and Januzaj ready to jump in and take that spot.
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Still, the best solution is probably to bench RVP right now. Today was a great example of what happens when we play an actual CAM in the no.10 role, instead of sitting back like scared little girls, praying for Rooney and RVP to create magic out of nothing.
Like in most cases the truth lies in the middle here.
With a performance like today United would defeat a Leverkusen in normal form probably in 9 out of 10 games, but they would not deliver such a spanking if Leverkusen would be anywhere near their normal level. This was by far Leverkusen´s worst season performance. Part of it comes down to the immense pressure United put onto them, but so did Bayern Munich and there they did not completely fell apart in the beginning of the game. If they would have played like today vs. Bayern or Dortmund they would have been murdered on the pitch.
The biggest difference today was not so much in ability but mentality. For years now Leverkusen as a team has for some reason a mental block when it comes to international top teams. This is simply a repeat of the joke game vs. Barca a couple of years back. They were scared to the bones vs. your team. And the worst part was that they had completely given up by the 30th minute. After that they created no pressure, no movement, they simply did not fight and this is what made the display by them pathetic and the biggest difference between them and the two actual top teams of the Bundesliga.
Imagine being 2-0 up by 30 minutes vs. Dortmund or Bayern. You think they just give up like Leverkusen today? Hell no. They will run you down endlessly and throw everything at you they have.
As long as they don´t overcome this mental barrier I will never consider Leverkusen a top team, no matter the league position.
This myth never dies, huh
This is the reality. People can conjure up as many complex formations as possible on here, but when Rooney and RVP are fit, they play at his expense. It's not going to change anytime soon.
Food for thought for Moyes. Kagawa making himself a consideration for our strongest line-up. It's progress for Shinji. He must have enjoyed that.
Hehe - you'd say that, wouldn't you? But, hands down, Kagawa was good tonight. And Rooney was even better. And the balance looked right - more so than it has lately, much more. So, either Leverkusen are just utter dross, a significantly poorer side than Cardiff (as some have suggested) - or we're on to something.
The dilemma has a name, though, and it's RVP. What to do with that bugger. We'll see how this progresses - but I think Moyes was very pleased with Kagawa tonight.
I agree. And sadly, neither will the quality of the football.
Cleverley can't handle a Barcelona triangle in one of the offensive roles. It puts a lot of pressure on the central midfielders to have a good ability to dribble and carry the ball forward if the opportunity presents itself. Januzaj has that, as well as an ability to mix up the tiki-taka style with longer passes to the wings/forwards.
Januzaj and Kagawa together would be immense if they had defensive cover from Jones/Fellaini/Carrick whereas Clev/Kagawa would be way too predictable and if our opponents mark out Kagawa - Cleverley is not going to step up.
I think he adds something when he can drift in, he can provide a central creativity that rvp and Rooney don't consistently. But still both are too good to drop. I still can't see why he can't start from the left and drift. It's purely a case of him showing more drive there but also getting the team right. We rarely see passin as sharp as today and it makes a big difference, the other thing we need is two midfielders who will control games as with today. With that base we can easily have 2 off kagawa, nani, valancia and januzaj playing around rvp and Rooney.
Swap Nani for RVP in today's starting XI, and you'd get this:
Something to consider...
Rooney - RVP
Kagawa
Giggs - Jones
Evra ------------------ Valencia
Evans Ferdinand Smalling
DDG
Something to consider...
What I see, is a United with - amongst other things - Kagawa in the hole playing quick football on the break as well as against rstablished banks of four, and without conceding too much. Him, rooney and rvp for two positions should please everyone with regards to playing time. Welbeck is the fix-all incase of crisis. Chicharito unfortunately the odd man out.
He was the fecking business tonight.
What the feck is wrong with the cnuts on here who bring in negativity after a result and performance like that?
What an utter weapon you are.
What the feck is wrong with the cnuts on here who bring in negativity after a result and performance like that?
What an utter weapon you are.
I've suggested it many times too. It's perfect for what we've got at our disposal. It won't happen though as it needs time to practice and perfect; Liverpool used it during pre-season if I'm not mistaken. Probably not the best idea to be trying out brand new formations during the season.
Anyway, Kagawa clearly excels in the role and the challenge for him is to try and make it his own. He's young and has time on his side. If he's patient he could find himself becoming our no.10 for years to come.
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