It sounds like an excuse, but I think Kagawa needs a team functioning around him. He is dependent on things happening around him and behind him for him to take the touches that make the difference in the final third. He's not a player to take the ball and make everything happen by himself. He's a team player, and from the midfield upwards, don't look that much like a team, closer to a bunch of player trying things.
Shinji Kagawa
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I used to find your obsession with Kagawa funny I now just find it annoying, I mean what the feck are you on about.
And yet if he had played well in those 30 minutes you would be using it as an argument to prove how right you were blah blah, its funny I've got nothing against Kagawa, he is an ok player I guess but I'm actually beginning to dislike him because of your obsession.
Having read roughly 2 pages in total of this entire thread, I can safely say with 100% certainly that the above is the most retarded post in the entire thread.
It's not an excuse really. He's a final third kind of player. Needs to have a midfield that can link from deep and get the ball to him. Giggs was excellent at that, he runs at players and played forward passes. Unfortunately Cleverly and Jones can't do that.
It's kind of disheartening to see that your best midfielder is a 40 years old converted winger. Anderson style was a better option to do this, but really he hasn't played much this season. It makes you wonder why the hell Moyes is hell bent on getting Fellaini. His style is the last thing we need, an immobile midfielder who rarely pass forward
You could put any attacker in one of those front four positions, bar Rooney, and they won't be good. There just isn't a base behind them from which they can build attacks. Our front players are being starved of service it's as simple as that.
Agreed, it's really unfair to judge any of our central attacking players when our midfield consists of Jones and Cleverley, and neither ever run with the ball or pass it forward. It's also really hard for a player to excel in the middle when the winger keeps coming inside, as it makes the center of the pitch even more crowded then normal and a player like Kagawa can't create. It's not really an excuse for him, because you can't just put players on in any system and expect them to do well. Doesn't work like that. Kagawa needs to have a well balanced team around him, and a midfielder who can play balls into him. It's actually standard for any number 10 in the world really. Rooney doesn't ever really play as a true #10 so you can't judge him like that either.
Put Ozil in the team yesterday, or the many times Kagawa hasn't impressed too much on the left and he would be just as ineffective. Ozil's obviously a better player but they need service into their feet and space to work their magic, with movement around them.
Kagawa need to fit in the team. The team cannot be built around Kagawa. I see the same situation in Berbatov too. Talented players who just don't fit in with the way we organize and play. Our traditional reliance on wingers variations of 4-4-2 formation etc are not that supportive of Kagawa, esp with Rooney already operating in a similar position.
But the positive thing is I see both Kagawa and Rooney operating deeper to create play due to lack of support from Cleverly/Fellaini/Anderson. So I think if we play a 4-1-4-1 with Carrick/Jones sheilding and Kagawa & Rooney creating for RvP would work.
I don't think it's the same case at all, berbatov was always too slow for us and wanted to slow things down, but our play if anything isn't good enough and is way too static to bring the best out of kagawa. To have him adjust to our playing style would have to make him change how he's always played football and probably play a less attractive style. I'm not saying the team needs to be built around kagawa at all, but he's a very good player and since everybody and his dog knows we play shite football right now and need a change of style, we all want to go to a more fluid and balanced system. Any offensive midfielder needs simple things like movement around him and midfielders who can provide him passes. You see threads like our zombie movement, but yet kagawa gets criticized when he doesn't make enough chances every game. You need movement before he can create chances, he's never been a player who can dribble past a few players and make bursting runs with the ball. He's a good dribbler and good with the ball and excellent technically, but that just isn't his game.
I see people all the time criticize kagawa on here and say he doesn't fit in, then say we should have went for ozil. It wouldn't have been any different at all to how kagawas doing. It's not that he's not good enough to impose himself or whatever, he's just an attacking midfielder who won't really impress if the midfielders play like ours have the last 5 years for the most part, and other players keep drifting inwards and not holding their position.
Whoever says Ozil can do better than Kagawa in our team is just bonkers. Neither are suited to the way we play.
The movment you ask for which is enjoyed by Ozil is due to other players like Ramsey, Carzola etc too which we don't have. Does not matter where we play Kagawa, he is just not going to get the same support here.
I also don't think we need a change of style. Just players out of form and some added beef in the middle we are good to go.
Yeah but when the midfield is shite there's little adjustment that a player can really make. He's nothing like Berbatov. Unlike him, when Kagawa at his best, he actually increase the speed of our play.
Shite midfield has always been the problem.
Fail to see why Moyes moved him to the left on Sunday. Welbeck wasn't up to it up front and he seems to be more of a danger from the left. Kagawa showed what he can do when behind Rooney against Leverkusen. Should have kept him there.
You need to read more on the thread, believe me. Look for posts by Mad Winger. I'm pretty sure he's had Kagawa up there with the likes of Messi and Iniesta over the last few weeks.
Predictably, there was a big difference between Spurs and Leverkusen. The latter were diabolical against us and played right into our hands. Slow paced and no pressure, the likes of Kagawa and Giggs thrive in those games and that is what happened.
True, they were. But to have a player who has just come back from injury there and who will not be match fit for quite a few weeks over someone who has just had one of his best games in his natural position doesn't make sense. Why start him there and then proceed to move him when he was just settling into the match? Didn't make sense to me.
It all comes down to our system being too static and our play being too systematic. Most players stay within their designated area of the pitch and make the ball do the work. It is almost as if we have a set system drilled into us, which is to get the ball out to the wings and put in a cross.
Our central players are poor at creating through the middle and it was worse without Carrick and RvP on the weekend. I thought Rooney and Kagawa in the middle looked OK, we just need more players joining and playing at a quicker pace instead of players waiting in their position for the ball.
We played some nice football with him as a #10 and the Moyes moves him to the LW. Disappointing really because he did well in the first half.
Does Ryanair fly to Dortmund from Manchester?? Bundesliga is a fecking joke if this guy ran the show there..
That was madness, a clear sign that Moyes is a poor tactician. He doesn't know what he wanna do, he just makes changes for the sake of them.
First time I have grievance with Moyes regarding Kagawa. Was good in the first half and yet he gets taken of despite those 2 donkeys in Valencia and Welbeck stayed on
I'm actually speechless.
Nah, he was pish again.
Please tell me if he is injured or something. It was a terrible substitution. 
Idiotic decision to take him off, I feel that we've completly lost the control we've had in the first half since he was off.
No he wasn't. I'm critical of Kagawa but he was one of the only bright (dim) spot in tonight's match.
So he's playing well behind the striker, for some reason we decide to shift him to the left and sub him coz he wasn't good there.
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Doesn't impose himself nearly enough on the game. He just lets the games drift by him.
He was decent enough and really should have stayed on ahead of Welbeck.
I don't think he does. Some of our best player came through Kagawa. Our best chance was created by him, too. I just don't understand Moyes starting him as a #10, moving him to a LW, and then subbing him off (maybe due to an injury).
What was Welbeck doing?
He'll surely be looking at leaving now. Getting shifted around to accommodate for the shitness of Danny Welbeck... I'd be a bit pissed too.
He was the offensive midfielder with easily the biggest presence in the first half. He struggled in the first minutes of the 2nd half, but this was more down to basically no service from the CM and being pulled to the left wing again. Taking him off instead of the dire Welbeck was a puzzling decision by Moyes.
I fail to see what Welbeck has to do with Kagawa not imposing himself? Even after going left, he has to do more. I'd have subbed them both, but Kagawa can have no excuses. He gets the ball, plays it simple and doesn't do much else. He's really struggling and it wouldn't surprise me if we try and tempt Dortmund for Gundogan/Reus with him. I just can't see him ever working here.
Was great in the first half I thought. What does Moyes do? Moves him out to the wing because Welbeck is playing like piss again out there and needs to be in his best position (even though he's not very good there either).
We would have won the game easily if he and Rafael stayed on, we were dominating the game in the first half and looked like we were going to score. I genuinely have no idea what he was thinking taking off Kagawa and Rafael.
We would have won the game easily if he and Rafael stayed on, we were dominating the game in the first half and looked like we were going to score. I genuinely have no idea what he was thinking taking off Kagawa and Rafael.
At half time I thought things were really looking bright, we were creating and looking pretty fluid in the first half, with only a goal lacking. Queue bizarre tactical changes and ensuing poorer play.
He was poor again. Misplaced passes, losing possession under pressure, even a first touch which landed about 10 yards away from him. That was not a good performance. The best aspect of his game was probably his defending, which isn't great by any means.
Not sure if we were watching the same game, I thought he was excellent in that half, great usage of the ball and looked threatening, and we looked good going forward.
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