I can see us bulking him out and in turn him losing agility and mobility. It's what we do.
Shinji Kagawa
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There was something I read that said we have put him on a strength regime or something.
Yay.
Agree very good player but Rooney is a great player. Glad to have both them.
We need to get the ball to him quicker IMO.
Nani, Ronaldo, Valencia, Evra all have suffered badly from that... Very weird argument. Gymnasts tend to be quite agile, not bulky you say? It all depends on how you work out...
Looked a little shocked by the pace of the game today, southhampton were closing down very quickly and tackling with real bite, he struggled to get into the game a bit a times.
Think it was right to take him off, but this is part of the learning curve.
Southhampton played out of there skin today, teams wont be that tough every week.
Think it was right to take him off, but this is part of the learning curve.
Southhampton played out of there skin today, teams wont be that tough every week.
I'm not surprised he got bullied off the ball quite easily, he's not there as a strength player and Asian players tend not to be that type of footballer. Park was never a great one for bullying his way through the field, because he just wasn't built for that kind of role.
Where Kagawa's strength lies is in his creativity and movement. We need his midfield partners to be strong to allow him that kind of freedom, but unfortunately today was a bit of an off day for Carrick, and in my opinion we made a bit of an error playing Welbeck out on the left as opposed to the more physical Nani.
I thought he was great against Fulham though and am really excited to see him playing for us this season. He'll take a bit of time to adjust to those kind of gritty PL games like we saw today but I think he's really well suited to our style and will add something new in the middle I hope.
Where Kagawa's strength lies is in his creativity and movement. We need his midfield partners to be strong to allow him that kind of freedom, but unfortunately today was a bit of an off day for Carrick, and in my opinion we made a bit of an error playing Welbeck out on the left as opposed to the more physical Nani.
I thought he was great against Fulham though and am really excited to see him playing for us this season. He'll take a bit of time to adjust to those kind of gritty PL games like we saw today but I think he's really well suited to our style and will add something new in the middle I hope.
Yeah, look how Scholes suffered from it.
Scholes has always been a stocky guy. Even when he was 17 or 18 he was never slight he was short but he could always handle himself.
Nani has always been hench, there was a photo of him in his first season with us and he was cut. Ronaldo was a 6ft 2 monster, hardly comparable to 5 inches shorter Kagawa, Valencia is a direct and pacey monster and completely incomparible and Evra wasn't slight when he came with us, he improved when his head got up to speed not his body.
Your argument about Gymnasts is bizarre, I used to be one and it's a totally different form of strength and agility to football. A mate of mine who still does Gymnastics (to a high level as well) and is ripped, is 5'10'', the same height as me. I'm a very average build, not muscley at all and I weigh just over 11 stone while he weighs just under 10 stone. We played 5 a side together last summer and despite being muscley he was getting pushed off the ball all over the place because he was so light.
It's the weight we add to players, like we did with Hernandez, that I think makes them sluggish. I'd rather we encouraged him to learn to handle the rigours of the league, learn how to ride a challenge and play to his own strengths than put him on that bulk out diet.
Look at Silva, he's slight and City didn't need to put him on any supplements to get him to handle the Premier League. It'll be to the detriment of his game if we start adding weight to him.
He didn't have the best game today, but I feel that was largely due to Schneiderlin putting in a great performance man-marking him. We know if you give Kagawa a yard or so to receive the ball and turn he can damage any team, he simply didn't get that space today.
I feel people are being a bit harsh on our midfield, Kagawa being an option for a pass has been a huge part of our build-up and possessional play in the previous 2 games (and in pre-season) and in this one game that outlet was removed by a great tactical decision by Adkins.
I feel people are being a bit harsh on our midfield, Kagawa being an option for a pass has been a huge part of our build-up and possessional play in the previous 2 games (and in pre-season) and in this one game that outlet was removed by a great tactical decision by Adkins.
He got shrugged off the ball quite easily & slipped quite a bit as well.
But passes made to him were pretty sloppy as well, so not all his fault.
But passes made to him were pretty sloppy as well, so not all his fault.
He's an intelligent player. He'll learn how to cope with aggressive opponents and will become a better player for it.
Was bullied physically, he acknowledged he needs to strengthen himself so the problem will go away eventually.
Southampton done their homework on Kagawa, kudos to them. Can't remember the player's name, but he was almost man marking him at times.
Hopefully they get him on a better strength programme than they have De Gea on! More seriously though it's just a learning curve for him, he'll adapt. Silva/Nasri have hardly become much stronger, it's just about adapting.
Today he reminded me of Park in terms of slipping, falling over and being bullied by the opposition.
I have full confidence he will come good in the next few weeks.
I have full confidence he will come good in the next few weeks.
A young Nani was skinny even though he was ripped, now he is quite beefy.
So you think that Ronaldo and Evra were born with their muscles? They are agile as hell but are fit as fiddle too. It all depends on how you work out - I'm about as agile as a brick wall, but I was that way when I was a skinny teenager too.
What happened to Hernandez I do not know, but he has gained a lot less weight than Nani has.
I'm surprised about gymnasts though - I thought they would be impossible to move off the ball... Guess I learnt something new today also
The number of people slipping today was laughable at times. Shinji was getting hassled anytime he was on the ball and Southampton weren't shy at getting stuck in neither, they played really well even though we weren't helping ourselves for the majority of the game.
In a couple of months he should be fine it will take him time to get used to fellas wanting to clatter him each week.
In a couple of months he should be fine it will take him time to get used to fellas wanting to clatter him each week.
Apparently he posted a near record in the beep test for us.
(Apparently you brits call it the 'bleep' test..?) and beat out the rest of the team.
The new improved Park
(Apparently you brits call it the 'bleep' test..?) and beat out the rest of the team.
The new improved Park
Best since Becks apparently.
Apparently he posted a near record in the beep test for us.
(Apparently you brits call it the 'bleep' test..?) and beat out the rest of the team.
The new improved Park
Where do you hear that sort of info?
The problem today was Vidic, Rio and Carrick taking an absolute eternity before doing anything with the ball.
Whenever Cleverley or Kagawa got the ball they had about three Southampton-players trying to penetrate their various body openings.
Vidic and Carrick in particular were absolutely dopey on the ball. 6 or 7 touches before playing the ball that they could have just as easily played in the first place - resulting in us losing the ball to aggressive pressure, pretty fecking obviously.
Whenever Cleverley or Kagawa got the ball they had about three Southampton-players trying to penetrate their various body openings.
Vidic and Carrick in particular were absolutely dopey on the ball. 6 or 7 touches before playing the ball that they could have just as easily played in the first place - resulting in us losing the ball to aggressive pressure, pretty fecking obviously.
First time he's been man marked. We need to play through him for him to be successful. He had great touches and passes and movements. Just wasn't his day.
I so agree with this. Cleverley and Kagawa must have been tearing their hair out at the funereal passing. I get it if Rio and Vidic take their time, but Carrick really does cramp the quicker players' style.
It's ironic how Scholes manages to look composed (as Carrick usually does), but still produce incisive passing - it's interesting that RVP and SAF mentioned the impact that Scholes had. No mention of Carrick!
I think the far bigger problem was cleverley trying to push forward too much. The defenders and carrick can be accused of taking too long at times but the bigger problem was because clev pushed on almost as soon as we won the ball he didn't allow the deep players to actually move the ball up the field. Southampton could simply mark carrick forcing te defenders in to a longer/riskier pass. When carrick was on the ball as he had no one within 10 yards of him he had to either try a riskier pass himself or play it back and wait for a better opening. It'd be a mistake to blame carrick imo, clev was te problem. It's noticeable that when he stayed in the middle we got control and looked much better when he pushed forward there wasn't enough support for the build up and he and kagawa often were on top of each other
He was a skinny lad, hence the Guinness diet.
Playing Welbeck on the left is clearly not working and it's not going to help Kagawa's game either. Welbeck ends up constantly drifting into the space Kagawa operates in and they both end up looking clueless.
Beckham had incredible stamina, i remember SAF mentioning it as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-194407/What-Beckham-wont-tell.html
"david was blessed with great stamina. The best of all the players I've had."
He has mentioned this multiple times.
So is it fair to say Kagawa is the physically fittest player at the club? If so that is quite an accolade at a club such as ours and encouraging to know he has the stamina to match his technical brilliance
True. I really don't want to see us trying to bulk him up. Even if he does lack a tad of strength, he more than makes up for it with his touch and dribbling ability. Whether he'd be as good if he was bulkier I don't know.
I don't think he was bullied any more than Clev was the week before by fulham's midfield, yet i don't here calls for TC to bulk up. Kagawa was man marked by a much bigger opponent, and we didn't create enough space with our slow methodical passing to give him the ball in areas he could do much with, apart from pass it backwards.
We need to speed up our play if Kagawa is going to shine for us. In tight games we tend to isolate our striker, fortunately RVP is still very effective under those circumstances.
Meh.
With the amount of injuries you lot always have, i'm the 6th fittest player at the club and I'm not fit or a player at your club.
I hope we don't. I don't buy this, every player needs to bulk, nonsense. Look at guys such as Silva, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi. You wouldnt want to potentially lose something from his game in order to make him a little bit stronger. Sometimes great poise and balance can negate any physical differences. When I play football even though I am bigger and stronger than most others, I can't get close to small technical players and we have enough players to do the physical work for kagawa
I think in his first few games Kagawa showed he doesnt need much if any extra strength. He held off players and kept the ball very well for someone of his size.
The issue this weekend was more about losing his footing, he kept slipping. Not sure if it was a problem with his selected footware or just unlucky with the surface (Clyne and others also slipped)
The issue this weekend was more about losing his footing, he kept slipping. Not sure if it was a problem with his selected footware or just unlucky with the surface (Clyne and others also slipped)
They both wear the Adidas f50 with the moulded triangle studs, seemed as though they were the problem in a newly laid pitch
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