Still looks afraid to get physical and don't think he will ever learn this side of the game.
But many players shine even though, in the PL.
But many players shine even though, in the PL.
Shinji Kagawa
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Götze:
When Kagawa was still in Dortmund, he was a better player than Götze. I don't know how much Götze has developed in 6 months, but I highly doubt that he has surpassed Kagawa already. Kagawa is the better player, but Götze might be able to catch up considering his age.
Cazorla
He is 5 years older than Kagawa and plays in a team where it's much easier to shine. If Kagawa isn't the better player already, he's definitely going to be in the future.
Isco:
I haven't seen enough from this player to fairly judge him.
Silva:
He's 3 years older than Kagawa and has much more PL experience. Kagawa is already on par with Silva if you ask me, but Silva is more proven at top level so he's edging it slightly. Still, Kagawa at 23 is much better than Silva at 23.
And there you have it
Think you're overrating kagawa a bit there, saying he's as good as silva. Maybe will be one day but as of now he's got much more to do to get to Silvia's level. Also it's unfair to say he's better then gotze considering last season, gotze was injured pretty much all season. It's season he's been fantastic and IMO has the potential to be one of the best in the world, whereas kagawa most likely won't ever get to that level.
Better then isco though, and probably on par with cazorla, just needs to settle into the premier league.
People are reading too much into Kagawa coming on in CM against Wigan. We were coasting and it was all about taking Carrick out of the firing line.
He's clocked up 80 odd minutes in a few days, so a good reintegration back into the side. He should see around 60/70 minutes against WHU too, and if he comes through unscathed, he'll be under heavy consideration for Liverpool.
Sounds cheesy, but given how long he was out, it feels like a new signing.
He's clocked up 80 odd minutes in a few days, so a good reintegration back into the side. He should see around 60/70 minutes against WHU too, and if he comes through unscathed, he'll be under heavy consideration for Liverpool.
Sounds cheesy, but given how long he was out, it feels like a new signing.
Kagawa is not currently at Silva's level, not at all.
Thinking what Kagawa has done in the last couple of years in Germany over an inferior French league. Not knocking Hazard he's a top talent but for me Kagawa is more proven at a higher level so far.
Aye, it was clearly a 'rest Carrick' decision, not a footballing one. Even Fergie obviously doesn't see Kagawa as a CM. He'll be played somewhere effectively in the 3 of a 4231, no doubt about that.
In terms of being in the PL, I'll agree with you. But I'd say Kagawa was better in the Bundesliga than what Silva is right now in the PL.
It took time for Silva to fullu get going in the PL - I have no doubt if he can stay fit until the end of the year, he'll be one of our most influential attacking players.
Our ideal lineup would be having Kagawa, Rooney and Nani behind RVP. Nani could provide the width and the movement of the other 3 would be a nightmare for any defense to deal with. I hope we get to see it this season
Well with Nani staying, although I won't feel comfortable until he officially signs a new contract, it would be exciting watching that front 4 play - with two of Anderson, Cleverley and Carrick behind them.
I said it at the start of the season, and I'll say it again - it doesn't seem the players know what Shinji is capable of. At times, they don't pass to him when it seems he's crowded out, but he works best in a crowded environment. His touches and passes unlocked defences within seconds in the Bundesliga. His vision really is superb. I really can't wait to see Nani with him.
I said it at the start of the season, and I'll say it again - it doesn't seem the players know what Shinji is capable of. At times, they don't pass to him when it seems he's crowded out, but he works best in a crowded environment. His touches and passes unlocked defences within seconds in the Bundesliga. His vision really is superb. I really can't wait to see Nani with him.
If you notice how players like Kagawa approach the game compared to the likes of Hazard, Nani, Isco etc., you'll notice that Kagawa is much more of a team player.
I've seen him take on players before and he's very good at it. Where he differs from other players is the amount of attention he devotes to team play. He uses his skill to beat a defender when necessary. He did that yesterday when he nutmegged a wigan player. Cool as you like, then went on to advance the play.
When it comes down to which player you would prefer, that's more about what you would like to see. I don't doubt most people on the caf would love to see a player like Hazard play for us. Incredible first touch. Loves to dribble at opponents. Great eye for a pass. Can shoot well and is always on the move. However, he is not as much of a team player as Kagawa. This is why he may not shine as much in certain games compared to others. He has to rely more on his individual ability to make an impact on the game.
Kagawa has a better chance of having more good games since he focuses more on bringing his teammates into play and creating assists. What I mean is, unless he has an off day, you will see him making good decisions on and off the ball which benefits the build-up play for the whole team especially in the final third. Hazard doesn't do this consistently enough so when he's not at his best, he goes quiet for certain periods. Kagawa is more likely to see the ball and make a consistent impact with it. Nonetheless, Hazard is younger than Kagawa and he will inevitably have more consistent performances. He's a very good player already so he'll be quite a proposition when he really gets going.
Against Liverpool he was played in while he was crowded out and it didn't quite work out. Fergie then said he would be better if he didn't have his back to goal.
I thought the exact opposite early on in the season. Players seem to be very confident in passing it to Kagawa even when he had players surrounding him.
Will fast become one of our best players. I love the guy, and what he brings to the team. The sooner he settles in to a starting line up the better our football will be.
I don't know why you've quoted my post - your post has nothing to do with what I've said. My point was that, especially based on what we've seen so far, Kagawa is not really suited to ghosting past 3 defenders and unleashing a shot from range. And maybe his ability on the ball (dribbling) is not at the highest level of someone like Hazard/Nani etc.
I agree with everything that you've said, him being a team player, its usefulness and etc.
David Silva is the most overrated player in the PL
How is he overrated?
No one's calling him the best player in the league or anything, but he is rightly up there, possibly in the second tier.Not a chance, he's sheer class and is "rated" accordingly. Without him City would not be half the team they are and whenever we play them he is the one player I worry about when he gets the ball as he can cut you open in a split second. If he left they would not be able to replace his quality.
But what you've highlighted wonnie is a piece of skill that not many players have. Most players can at least skin one defender. But 3?!? That's quite high up for dribbling success and accuracy.
I just don't think your point really means all that much tbh. Dribbling isn't just about beating players. It depends how you use it. Iniesta is the epitome of the economical dribbler. He knows the right moments when to use his dribbling to get out of a tight situation. He is also able to ghost past players as well. However, he likes to be more productive with his ball use which is why we see this side of his game less often. He's not one of those players to just go on a dribbling run most of the time and lash it from 30 yards.
That's why I said it comes down to who you prefer. It's great having a player who has the ability to ghost past 3 players but in general such players lose the ball more often than one who uses it more economically.
I just don't think your point really means all that much tbh. Dribbling isn't just about beating players. It depends how you use it. Iniesta is the epitome of the economical dribbler. He knows the right moments when to use his dribbling to get out of a tight situation. He is also able to ghost past players as well. However, he likes to be more productive with his ball use which is why we see this side of his game less often. He's not one of those players to just go on a dribbling run most of the time and lash it from 30 yards.
That's why I said it comes down to who you prefer. It's great having a player who has the ability to ghost past 3 players but in general such players lose the ball more often than one who uses it more economically.
Well yeah, my point doesn't 'mean much' I guess - the last page was debating about Kagawa's dribbling ability and Mad Winger suggested it is superior than what most of believed, that is all.
The difference with players like Iniesta is, as you've rightly pointed out, they actually have the ability to ghost past 3 defenders (sans the long range effort) but they choose not to show this too often. The point is Iniesta has that dribbling ability - and most of don't think Kagawa is up to par in that respect.
That's not to say he is a lesser player, because yes, again from what I've seen he seems very economical and always seems to make the right pass, and the difficult pass.
The fact that van Persie has been such a resounding success has been a God-send for Shinji in my opinion. Had van Persie struggled to vindicate his transfer fee, Kagawa may have found himself under pressure to deliver on his as he was the other big money transfer of the summer. Shinji, through no fault of his own, is having to start his United career all over again now and with van Persie and co. taking all the limelight, he can seamlessly slot back in with the minimum of fuss.
Ye I see your point wonnie. Basically we won't know until we see Kagawa do that. For me, what he adds to the team already is enough.
This nutmeg is typically the kinda humiliating dribbling I love so much to do in real life. 'You want the ball, go and take it fool
'.It's an efficient way of getting past your opponent and it sends a message to at the same time
In my opinion kagawa hasn't settled yet in the team, I think he still feels a newbie so he doesn't want to be selfish, he is taking the easy option which isn't necessarily showing his full skill set.
By next year he will be less nervous and more greedy, then we will see the full kagawa
He reminds me of how silva and mata took it easy at first then exploded in the second season.
By next year he will be less nervous and more greedy, then we will see the full kagawa
He reminds me of how silva and mata took it easy at first then exploded in the second season.
And I think my fellow supporters criminally underrate him. It's a perfect case of "the grass is always greener on the other side".
He has a certain composure and intelligence to his play that we seem to lack at times, I can't wait to see him and van Persie play more.
You've probably seen more of him than most of us have on here. Was it in the newbs you had a thread on Japanese football? That was quite a good thread, lot of perspective and information in there from what I remember.
Anyway like I said before let's hope you're right about Kagawa
You've probably seen more of him than most of us have on here. Was it in the newbs you had a thread on Japanese football? That was quite a good thread, lot of perspective and information in there from what I remember.
Anyway like I said before let's hope you're right about Kagawa
Ah, I miss that thread. I might make a similar thread here in the mains when I have time. It would be very helpful if there was a way for me to just view my posts from that thread, so that I could copy/paste a few stats and links.
I hope I'm right too
Kagawa really isn't a centre midfield player in amongst the bodies in the middle of the pitch he was getting swamped. If we're going to play him it has to be coming in off the flanks or between the lines in the '10' role as Japan do and Dortmund did respectively. Surprised to see him stay on and Chicharito come off in today's game.
Fitness and form will arrive soon, needs to face goal more.
As I've been saying over the past couple of pages, still has a lot to prove. Some of the hyperbole putting him amongst the best players in the world is extremely premature. This is coming from someone who likes the lad, but there is still plenty to be done.
That's why this west ham game at home can be a good team for some of our players.
His touch became horrible in the second half. Looked out of fitness.
Seemed a bit like playing with 10 men at times today. He didn't seem to know how to apply himself in this type of game, so he just kind of floated around in the pocket of the field that was constantly bypassed. Hopefully he will have at least got some fitness back, at least.
He was out for 2 months and played his second game today against a very physical side in a very fast game.
Give him time and he'll shine.
Give him time and he'll shine.
Definitely tired in the second half. Before that I thought he was doing quite well in the free role.
An important 90 mins under his belt.
He was quite poor though
He was quite poor though
It was the exact same against Southampton away. Exact same performance.
Seems to me the players doesn't trust him enough and it has affected his confidence, his touch is hardly ever as poor as it was in the second half. He is a playmaker and all playmakers need to be trusted by their teammates to perform, but more often than not he was bypassed during any build up play. Needs to settle into the team and assert his authority.
I'd still love to see him play at LAM as opposed to CAM. Gives him a bit more space, and means that he can drift into the center an join up with the second striker which means the DM for the opposition can't dominate him as easy.
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