I'd have brought him on a hell of a lot sooner, and taken Giggs off.
Shinji Kagawa
- Thread starter Baby Faced Assassin
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
I would like that Fergus' son but I don't see it happening. it seems Fergie is more keen on Rooney and RvP getting back to where they were
Just start him and keep him the freaking team for the rest of the season.
I think it would serve to do that, RVP could do with a break and get Rooney up top, hopefully score a couple with Kagawas creativity beind him and get his confidence back.
In terms of creating chances I think Kagawa will prove to be the best in the squad so I want to see him played first and foremost, and also played in a position where he thrives and we have been slightly lacking in recently.
Totally agree mate. Would be a worth a try
Surprised he didn't play the Chelsea game if he wasn't going to play in this game.
Must be gutted, score a hattrick and barely get played afterwards.
Fergie definately cares more about getting Rooney in form than bedding Kagawa in, fecking annoying
Fergie definately cares more about getting Rooney in form than bedding Kagawa in, fecking annoying
I don't see why he couldn't play on the left, I mean he has had some good games for us out there.
Kagawa needs Rooney to leave in the summer. If United believe in Kagawa then it has to happen.
If that was going to happen we'd be using Kagawa more now. As you say though, as long as Rooney and RvP are here I don't see Sir Alex using Kagawa consistently or in his best position.
Only when he's drifted to where his favored position is....coincidence? It's probably what he'll have to put up with but I'm a bit skeptical how well it will work out.
It would need a change of tactics, and unfortunately I don't think SAF does any other tactics than 4-4-2.
Not sure what the issue is with Kagawa however i doubt that he could have made much of an impact.
The most successful manager in history and he does not do tactics?
The reasons we lost was not tactics. A lot of players have lost form, and look complacent. It seems the season ended after the Madrid game.
We havent played a proper 4-4-2 for a while now. Atleast not in any game where we just intend to roll over shite opposition.
So therefore we need to freshen things up a bit. Play Welbeck or Chicharito up front and Kagawa behind. Just because Chicharito didn't play that good against Chelsea and Welbeck has only scored once, so what? They deserve a run in the team because RVP and Rooney haven't been performing the last few games.
Surely the whole point of a squad is that if players are playing crap or simply jaded, others must come in???
If the next season is going to be the same, i.e. he plays occasionally against weaker teams and has a couple of chances against someone slightly better then it'd be the best for him to leave. He's way too good to be a reserve even at United, he used to be one of the best players at Dortmund and now he barely plays. It's annoying because I thought his arrival would indicate a change of style and move us away from an ancient winger-based formation but it did nothing of a sort.
Again, agree. I've had enough of this boring, incessant switching from one wing to another.
I think if we played Kagawa at No 10 without Rooney sticking his oar in, we'd see a different player and faster attacking.
Sick of Rooney.
The man love for Kagawa on here is mind boggling. We should drop better players for him to the rest of the season? We have a title to win.
The "man love" is simply asking for a run of games for Kagawa, given that his Royal Highness Rooney no longer appears to be doing the business.
RVP has not been scoring but he still looks more likely to produce something than Rooney.
Ok?
It really is.
Kagawa has been, in the main, a bit shit this season. Started all of our worst team performances and, Norwich game aside, his individual displays have been mediocre. Gets muscled off the ball, makes poor decisions, struggles with the pace of the game and generally looks like a boy amongst men.
It actually reminds of Evra's debut season. Not quite so consistently out of his depth but the similarities are obvious.
I like Kagawa. He really impressed me in pre-season. He's a clever player who will almost certainly come good. Probably next season. Not a chance he belongs in our best XI right now. Bizarre that so many seem to think he does.
Yeah, it's perfectly ok for you to have an opinion. I'd say it's equally ok for me to be baffled why people have built Kagawa into a demi-god. If Roony is to be dropped it should be for Hernandez.
As many people have already said - he doesn't suit Fergie's system. 99% of the time, as soon as we approach the box we kick it wide to the wingers who put in (shit) crosses. What's Kagawa to do? Go in for headers?
I think people got so invested in their proclomations of his talent when he signed that they're finding it hard to accept the reality of what has actually happened. We've looked pretty toothless when Kagawa has played in the hole because he hasn't done enough in supporting the striker or in linking midfield and attack. He's got talent but I don't think he's the right player for this team in this league. We have better options.
Fergie's tried at least three different systems to try and get the best out of Kagawa. He's managed to underwhelm in all of them. The fault lies with the player, not the manager.
Honestly, the lengths some of ye will go to deny the bleeding obvious. He's just not been very good. Irrespective of the formation/position he's been asked to play.
I'm a bit more optimistic than that. Over the last few years we've gone into plenty of games with three in midfield but lacked someone with the composure, creativity and goal thread to link up with the front three. It's been a real issue in Europe away from home, where we've looked very solid but relatively toothless. I think Kagawa can provide that missing ingredient in the CL and is talented/versatile enough to play in a number of roles in the league too. He just needs to get his shit together and play a bit better. Which is to be expected. Not many players like him come from Europe into the PL and find their feet straight away. His second season will be when we can form an informed opinion on his future United career.
You can't just try a system once or twice when the team's not used to it. You have to commit to it, surely? Kagawa needs teammates on the same wavelength. The movement off the ball simply isn't there. It's not entirely his fault that he's a bit shit atm is all I'm saying.
It's not the other players job to adapt to him. He needs to adapt to the way Manchester United play.
I'd agree with that for the most part. It seems to me to be the best system for getting him in the team. The problem is that it's a system that we have largely done away with and playing him means a better player not playing now that we have such quality up front. A second season will be the making or breaking of him.
That's a weak excuse. Any creative player who is lucky enough to play behind strikers as prolific as talented as Rooney/RvP and as clever in their movement as Hernandez can only blame himself if he is unable to influence the game.
I do agree that it takes time to get on the same wavelength as his new team-mates, which is why I think we'll see a better player next year. What I don't agree with is this growing consensus that the only thing stopping Kagawa from lighting up the Premier League is the inability of his manager/team-mates to make him perform. That's his responsibility and his alone.
He scored a hattrick and has barely played since. Hes not had a proper run in the side, fergie needs to start oicking the same side so we start to get some consistency.
What, as a winger? Surely not, considering he has never played as one. Just like we signed Anderson when he was an attacking midfielder at Porto, and tried turning him into a box to box midfielder. 6 years later and it still hasn't worked.
Does he not play out wide for Japan? If he can only play behind the main striker and we have better options there then he'll be a squad player. It's not the job of every other player to change their games to suit him.
Odd thing to say but he hardly contributed much else in that game except score. Occasionally as a footballer things click into place, as it did for Kagawa in that particular game. Both Sir Alex, and Shinji have documented this has not been a good season for him for varying reasons. Quality is there no doubts. Premiership is a different animal. He needs to improve in certain aspects.
Good to see you PM.
Hehe. You think?
Well, Mr.Poster of the Year 2008(lol). Let's compare Kagawa to our other players for a bit.
Kagawa has mainly played as a winger/AM, so that's the set of players we have to choose from if we are going to compare. After a quick count, I'd say we have 7 players who more or less fit this description. They are the following: Rooney, Kagawa, Welbeck, Young, Giggs, Nani and Valencia.
Which of these players apart from Rooney has been better than Kagawa this season? No one in my opinion. The only player who has a claim, is Welbeck. But if then start to compare goals/assist rate, then we quickly discover that Kagawa is more than twice as effective as Welbeck.
* Kagawa in PL/CL: 1089 minutes played, 5 goals and 4 assists = One goal/assist ever 121 minutes.
* Welbeck in PL/CL: 1607 minutes played, 2 goals and 4 assists = One goal/assist ever 268 minutes.
If we then add to the fact that Kagawa is our second best passer after Scholes, and the player with the highest through ball successrate, then it's really hard to see how the other AMs/wingers have had a better season than Kagawa.
Kagawa is out second best player in the AM/wing positions this season, ahead of 5 other players, 4 of whom have played significantly more football than him. Deal.With.It.
Kagawa behind Rooney for the rest of the season please. Once van Persie was substituted in the home match against Norwich, these two linked tremendously. Of course it won't happen, though. Ferguson is scared to drop van Persie, whose form is disastrous.
He gets the odd game and then is subsequently benched the next game, regardless of how he plays. You can't expect a new player to excel in that type of situation, he needs consistent games. This obviously isn't going to happen though, as long as Rooney is here he will be playing.
I disagree about his performances as well, he's one of our few players who consistently retains possession and who is constantly trying to get open/make space. Him and Cleverley should be played together far more often, along with Welbeck and Nani. The four of them would be capable of playing some lovely football.
Edit: Mad Winger makes a good point as well, he's competing with Young, Valencia, Nani, Rooney, and Welbeck for positions and the only two that have been close to Kagawa are Welbeck and Rooney. Young and Valencia have been mostly terrible and Nani has been hurt/not allowed to play.
To say Kagawa's been 'poor' this season is extremely harsh. Sure, he hasn't set the world alight, but he's been a hard worker, and one of the few creative sparks I feel we've had this season.
- Status