But which side would that be?
If you asked 10 posters here to name our strongest XI, I'd expect we'd get ten different line-ups.
Shinji Kagawa
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But which side would that be?
If you asked 10 posters here to name our strongest XI, I'd expect we'd get ten different line-ups.
Creative spark ? He's been neat and tidy but he's hardly been creating many chances for others or playing many through balls.
Well, he's probably been the best of a bad bunch for us in the final third.
He's the best we have at retaining the ball in tight spaces. He's caught out sometimes, holding on to it for too long and getting muscled off it but he's very unlikely to give the ball away stupidly and repeatedly, something many of our players do far more frequently than they should.
He's a modern footballer, for me, and that's something we've lacked a little bit this season in the final third. With our fondness of the more traditional winger.
No he hasn't for me. He's not created enough plus been muscled off the ball when the game was against a team having a go.
He at times has been similar to Joe Allen playing as a AM for Liverpool. Neat and tidy with good pass percentages.
Well for me, his intelligence on the ball has been impressive, he makes sure of it and sometimes he might play the safe ball but I just have a lot more confidence with him in possession then I do with Nani, Young, or Valencia on it.
Err we've played him or Welbeck as a false winger for large parts of the season on one side.
And Modern footballer in exactly what sense ? Because he's seemed less stronger and fitter stamina wise than others at times. What we need right now is a Mata/Hazard type of player who can take on a man in the final third and create something out of nothing or someone who can pick out passes for our strikers like the one Mata did for Ba last week.
Kagawa will improve next season probably, but this season at times i agree with Pogue he has looked off the pace.
Not really. That would be Van Persie.
Welbeck too, as he's got some muscle to go with his technique.
How can someone be easily muscled off the ball, yet still the best we have at retaining possession in tight spaces? That doesn't make sense.
Kagawa's a very neat and tidy footballer and his best qualities (IMO) are his intelligence and ability to spot a pass. He's got a long way to go to get up to speed in the Premier League though. So far he's flattered to deceive.
He's Asian. I seem to rememeber Park being the same for a couple of seasons. The Premier League is rough and tumble, a lot of times players come from other leagues and do get outmuscled easily. Park, De Gea, Hernandez, even Ronaldo have all had to come to terms with the physicality of the English game.
The injury hasn't helped, and the fact he hasn't been consistently picked when maybe he should have.
I've no doubt in my mind that he'll improve next season.
He's quick on the ball, has an excellent touch, a neat player, and a lovely passer in the final third.
Iniesta, Scholes etc not saying they get pushed off the ball easily but at the same time these players aren't the biggest or strongest. Part of their strengths are touch, vision and intelligence which makes them brilliant at keeping the ball in tight spaces.
Not sure he's the best we have at that but he won't be far off.
Absolutely. Another good example was playing in blue last night. I'm genuinely hopeful that Kagawa's United career will follow the same trajectory that David Silva's has for City. I think they're very similar as footballers. Silva got a lot more opportunities in his debut season, mind you, which helped him adapt a bit quicker but he didn't have as much competition for his place in the team.
Pogue is back.I understand what Pogue Mahone is saying about Kagawa, yes he hasn't been that great as some people here had hoped but I see enough potential in him for him to turn this around. He is still young and you can't expect every foreign player to come in and hit the ground running, especially in a team like United where there is likely to be limited time for newer players until they have proven themselves somewhat.
He has shown glimpses of his potential and once he tunes himself to the league (and the United players learn more about him as a player), things will changes. I am also not too sure on his grasp of the English language yet, this can also obviously contribute to performances as football is very much a team game and the few seconds it may take to translate a team mates command can make a lot of difference...
Hope it works out well for him though as he seems like a decent bloke
He has shown glimpses of his potential and once he tunes himself to the league (and the United players learn more about him as a player), things will changes. I am also not too sure on his grasp of the English language yet, this can also obviously contribute to performances as football is very much a team game and the few seconds it may take to translate a team mates command can make a lot of difference...
Hope it works out well for him though as he seems like a decent bloke
Even withstanding injuries I think Fergie has been very slow in bedding Kagawa into the side. We've probably got the largest and strongest squad in the world, certainly in the PL so I understand it would be difficult for him to get games. But I hope to see him more involved next year.
No one is questioning his potential. He's shown his passing ability and link-up play with the other forwards and it's nothing to scoff at. Obviously, we want him to show this on a more consistent basis but then we have to leave him on the pitch with room to fail on more than one occasion before we bench him.
He's started 17 games this season. That's 3 more than Nani and the same amount as Ashley Young. In a season where he missed a large chunk with an injury.
He's had plenty of opportunities.
I really expected Kagawa to be one of those signings that would just take off and have a great first season... he's been ok-ish, but I can't say I haven't been disappointed so far.
His last two starts for us; Norwich and Sunderland, were encouraging. His link-up play and understanding with Carrick in particular in these games was very good.
He is the sort of player we should be building our system around, not trying to shoehorn him into our way of playing.
He is the sort of player we should be building our system around, not trying to shoehorn him into our way of playing.
Yeah, Van Persie is also good, so is Scholes. Welbeck... very erratic in this sense. And in every other sense, too.
Kagawa's not often muscled off though because usually he moves the ball on quickly enough. He's quick, nimble, has a good touch so it's not easy to take it off him. And he's a better passer than most of our players.
So yes, it does make sense: he sometimes struggles in physical games but is still better at retaining the ball than the vast majority of our players who have a tendency of giving it away stupidly and who just don't have the technique to keep it in tight spaces, regardless of their size and strength.
I agree that his first season has been underwhelming though.
He's the bloke who gets paid to do it, he just needs to settle on it. I understand a need to juggle teams when you have the CL and cups going on but now theres nothing left just put out what he thinks is he best side each week and watch them flourish.
I don't think anyone would argue that he's had a disappointing year given how the hype was so high after his Premier League debut that people could get away with saying this...
Kagawa and Sir Alex have both said that they expect to see a different Kagawa next year which is just a nice way of saying he's underwhelmed. I don't agree at all that he's had a poor first season though and it's hardly outrageous to want him in the first team ahead of Young, Valencia and Welbeck. Welbeck has the exact same problems of doing a lot of nice stuff in the build-up without much end product, Young's been pretty much the same this year and Valencia's barely even done that for much of the season. I'd have put him in there ahead of them for at least one of the recent big games myself. The main thing he should be looking to improve on next year is his goals tally in my view. He's a great finisher and gets in nice little pockets of space so he should be making more use of that. And he needs to stop falling over under minimal pressure. I think he actually copes fairly well with the physical contact but he falls over on his own far too often.
Kagawa and Sir Alex have both said that they expect to see a different Kagawa next year which is just a nice way of saying he's underwhelmed. I don't agree at all that he's had a poor first season though and it's hardly outrageous to want him in the first team ahead of Young, Valencia and Welbeck. Welbeck has the exact same problems of doing a lot of nice stuff in the build-up without much end product, Young's been pretty much the same this year and Valencia's barely even done that for much of the season. I'd have put him in there ahead of them for at least one of the recent big games myself. The main thing he should be looking to improve on next year is his goals tally in my view. He's a great finisher and gets in nice little pockets of space so he should be making more use of that. And he needs to stop falling over under minimal pressure. I think he actually copes fairly well with the physical contact but he falls over on his own far too often.
The thing is though we are one of the biggest clubs in the world and we only build teams around one player, if that player is of the absolute top notch level to get optimum performance out of them like we did with Ronaldo where even Rooney was sacrificed for a while.
These sort of players usually first have to prove their worth in Our way of playing and force the hand though.
I think his end product has been great. It's a lot of the other stuff that's lacking.
Although in recent games he's given the ball away less than in his earlier performances, which has coincided with him being less dangerous in the final third. He just needs to get the balance right. You can see him developing. Which is encouraging.
Although in recent games he's given the ball away less than in his earlier performances, which has coincided with him being less dangerous in the final third. He just needs to get the balance right. You can see him developing. Which is encouraging.
Contrary to popular belief, Kagawa is actually relatively effective in terms of goals and assists(assists should be included, as they are just as important as goals). He actually almost has the same ratio as he had in Dortmund!
Here's a list of the goals/assist ratio of our strikers, AMs and wingers in the Premier League and Champions League:
1. Hernandez: one goal/assist every 75.5 minutes.
2. Rooney: one goal/assist every 79 minutes.
3. RVP: one goal/assist every 84.5 minutes.
4. Kagawa: one goal/assist every 121 minutes.
5. Nani: one goal/assist every 162 minutes.
6. Welbeck: one goal/assist every 268 minutes.
7. Young: one goal/assist every 279 minutes.
8. Valencia: one goal/assist every 369 minutes.
Note that 2 of the 3 players that have done better than Kagawa are goal poachers. Rooney is also more of a striker than a typical AM, really. In terms of effectivity, Kagawa is far ahead of Nani, Welbeck, Young and Valencia.
Extra fun fact:
Evra's goal/assist ratio in the PL/CL is 297 minutes. That's way better than Valencia, and roughly around the same level as Young, and even Welbeck! Pretty impressive for a soon 32 year old fullback
Kagawa does have several problems right now and is still in the middle of his adaption process, but the speed of the PL should not be an issue. He excelled in a system, which sets a higher pace than any current PL team. The moments he did look promising were mostly situations, when the ball moved quickly and he could use his fast thinking and one touch passes to make plays.
This!
Kagawa definitely hasn't lived up to expectations this season but that doesn't mean he's been poor. He's definitely shown his class at times and looked a classy player but he's also faded out of games and not gotten completely up to speed with the premier leagues...speed (actually physicality but speed sounded better).
Despite not adapting yet to the premier league I'd still play him ahead of the likes of Valencia and young who have been totally inept this season.
As to why he hasn't shone yet, first and foremost it takes a lot of foreign players some time to adjust to the premiere league but more importantly he's not actually best suited to our system I think. He seemed to revel in that high tempo, quick passing interchange style of dortmunds and ours is just the complete opposite. We play using width and tend to not play those short passing interchanges through the middle that he likes. Hopefully he gets used to how we play and adapt to the league but I'd rather us change our style of play for the selfish personal reason that I love that kind of football.
Despite not adapting yet to the premier league I'd still play him ahead of the likes of Valencia and young who have been totally inept this season.
As to why he hasn't shone yet, first and foremost it takes a lot of foreign players some time to adjust to the premiere league but more importantly he's not actually best suited to our system I think. He seemed to revel in that high tempo, quick passing interchange style of dortmunds and ours is just the complete opposite. We play using width and tend to not play those short passing interchanges through the middle that he likes. Hopefully he gets used to how we play and adapt to the league but I'd rather us change our style of play for the selfish personal reason that I love that kind of football.
Kagawa will get a lot of playing time next season. Most of it hopefully in the right position.
I'm of the same opinion as the people saying that just because Kagawa hasn't reached the awfully high expectations we had of him, certainly doesn't mean that he's had a poor season. The praise he was receiving on here the summer gone was completely justified anyway, as he did look like a bordering world class talent at Dortmund last season. I also have little doubt that he'll look even better at United in the next three or so seasons.
If Kagawa has had a poor season, what has the likes of Valencia or Anderson had? he's looked better than either of them IMO.
If Kagawa has had a poor season, what has the likes of Valencia or Anderson had? he's looked better than either of them IMO.
Nah. Dyu think?
It's not really that bizarre at all. Anybody with a notion of knowledge of the game would know that he's an excellent talent and that's why a lot on here particularly like to see him in the team. He's not lived close to expectations, but on paper he's still one of our best players.
To the people who are convinced he'll not ony be better next year, but will play in his "correct position", how do you see that working? Surely we won't leave Rooney or VP out too often?
Surely you're not suggesting Fergie puts a reputation earned in a different club/league ahead of the evidence of his own eyes?
The only way to get him to that level we expect from him is to play him. With the season nearly over I think it's time to try him in his favoured position and see how he does.
Yeah, I read that before. It's sort of misleading given over half of his goals in all competitions have come in one game. Last season he scored in 15 different games from 39 starts, this season he's scored in 3 of his 15 starts. He's a good enough finisher and intelligent enough player to be scoring every three games or so no matter where he's playing, IMO.
He's already been played in his "favoured position", to limited effect. If we are going to risk sacrificing the effectiveness of the team in order to help one player settle then the worst possible time would be the next few games. Obviously, when the league is done and dusted I hope he starts every game.
He must miss his old team in terms of playing style.They play proper football
With the players we have we should be able to play more intricate football with a focus through the middle. It just seems it's drilled into the players that the ball has to be switched out wide at every possibility.
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