Shinji Kagawa

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Klopp shove Gotze on the wing to accommodate Kagawa in the centre? Was he crying for Gotze then?

His comments are fine in the self-serving sense that he's saying to his players: The grass isn't greener on the other side. But it's not a comment that has any actual relevance to how we should be utilizing Kagawa.
 
If Kagawa hadn't have gotten such a knock in the Champions League, I think he'd have been one of our star players in the 2nd half of the season. That injury really took a hit on him settling in with us. Still, I do think he's been one of our better players in our run in, and a delight to watch. even though the electronic formation shows him starting on the left, he really doesn't play there at all, and seems to have been granted alot of freedom to do whatever he wants, and it works well. I hope we see more of that in the new season. Moyes seems to grant the same sort of freedom to Pienaar on the left, and he usually roams all over the attack, so he's certainly the tyle of player who could fit into a Moyes team.
 
People in this thread are also acting like SAF is the only manager to play people out of position. Or that Kagawa is the only victim of it. Rooney and Welbeck have all been played out of position On numerous occasions this season. Welbeck in particular is a concern as his goalscoring form has seriously regressed playing out wide (to the point that Büttner has more PL goals than him this season). It's not like Kagawa was playing wide to accommodate Young or something either, it was and is Rooney's position. The same Rooney who scored 34 goals for us last season in that very position behind Hernandez/Welbeck. Yes Kagawa got 17(?) goals for Dortmund last season but he was never going to just walk into our side and displace our best player just like that. Some of you are so short-sighted and because everybody hates Rooney now and wants him gone there is a common belief that he's shit all on a sudden.

And it's irrelevant whether Klopp was asked about Kagawa or not, I don't think his comments were necessary. I saw a press conference with Wenger a couple of weeks ago where he was asked about Alex Song's comments about being unhappy at Barcelona and he diplomatically advised him to stay and give it another year before thinking about leaving. Not crying because Barcelona have played him in defence sometimes.

I do like Klopp, I voted for him in that next manager thread and understand he is probably frustrated about losing his best players year after year because Dortmund can't compete with wages or the lure of 'big clubs' like Us, Madrid and Bayern, but I still don't think those comments were necessary. Kagawa knew Rooney (who had just had a good season in his position) was here when he came, and that he'd have to work his ass off to displace him, and he chose to come here anyway. On occasions he has displaced Rooney but not all that often. Sometimes when Rooney hasn't been in the team RvP played behind Chicharito with Kagawa still on the left so its just a case of what SAF saw best for our team.
 
Shark22 said:
Many posters on here have been saying what Klopp has said basically all season, so I don't know why some people are being so defensive. He's exaggerated it a bit, as Kagawa has been recently playing in his preffered position. However, I think that we can all agree that he shouldn't have been shunted out wide as much as he has been this season.
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You've answered your own question there. I don't know about defensive, but I think his comments are misguided. We haven't been playing Kagawa out of position this season because we don't rate him, or because we think he's a winger. We've done it because he's been injured and settling into the team and we already have Rooney, on form one of the best players in the world, in that position. But clearly the last couple of months have shown that the intention is to eventually be playing Kagawa there.
 
You guys really read too much into it.


What did Klopp exactly say? That Kagawas best position is by far in the centre. Thats it. Everyone knows. Klopp knows. Kagawa knows. Ferguson knows. And Moyes surely knows as well.

So what he is saying that its sad that Kagawa isnt playing on his best position and therefor can't show his full potential. Yet he never critizes Ferguson for playing Kagawa out of position.


Where is the problem? You guys are just assuming that he is implying. Kinda weak as an foundation for discussion if you ask me.
 
I think there's too much talent in this guy for him not to have a breakthrough season the next time around.

Preferably in a more central role. The big question mark this summer is Wayne Rooney.
 
Considering Klopp is the one who got the most success out of Shinji, I think he's more than qualified enough to comment on what I think is plainly obvious - Kagawa is not a winger

BTW, the interview at The Guardian is a great read
 
Of course he isn't, but he can play there. Even SAF said few times that his best position is behind the striker, but it's hard to play him there when we have Rooney there, and even Welbeck and van Persie look great in that position. Plus, Fergie likes to play with two "strikers".
 
Amar__ said:
Of course he isn't, but he can play there. Even SAF said few times that his best position is behind the striker, but it's hard to play him there when we have Rooney there, and even Welbeck and van Persie look great in that position. Plus, Fergie likes to play with two "strikers".
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He's the reason I think it's time to cash in on Rooney (abroad). Him playing off van Persie.
 
There is an intimation that Fergie doesn't know what he's doing by playing Kagawa wide. I'm not saying it in a top red-ish 'no-ones allowed to criticise Fergie' type of way either it's just Rooney was off the back of a good season in that number 10 position, Kagawa and Klopp knew that, he's not automatically going to come and immediately displace Rooney who had scored more goals from that position last season than RvP has from further forward this season, he had to take his chances when he got them in that position and I don't think he did that early on. He was getting used to a new league and his new team mates and a new way of playing and we had issues with form and injuries of our natural wingers so most of his chances came on the wing. Saying Kagawa is not a winger is beyond obvious. Silva and Mata aren't wingers either but they play as Kagawa has done too and still manage to affect games drifting in fom wide areas. It's not some travesty that Kagawa was shunted out wide. I'm sure I saw someone imply that it was like playing Cristiano Ronaldo at left back which is a ridiculous comparison.
 
It's not as if we've asked Kagawa to hug the touchline and whip crosses in with his left foot.
 
The interview on the Guardian is great, everytime I think Klopp cannot be even more cool, he says something to change my mind.

Ina few words he said about Kagawa 'He is one of the best players in the world, and he plays for Manchester United about 20 minutes a game... in the left wing'. Nothing wrong about what he said, Kagawa is excellent and has been underused this year. Anyway, this was more about his other players to understand that going into an another club (a big club than Dortmund) doesn't necessarily mean that it will be good for their career. Try to not think as a United fan, if Kagawa wouldn't have signed for us, he would have been in UCL final playing all the games in his favorite position.

In long run things can change of course, cause I'll bet my house than in the enxt 5 years United will be more successful than Dortmund and very likely Kagawa would be an important player for us.
 
FCBarca said:
Considering Klopp is the one who got the most success out of Shinji, I think he's more than qualified enough to comment on what I think is plainly obvious - Kagawa is not a winger

BTW, the interview at The Guardian is a great read
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I wonder why that is so hard to see. He knows him very well and knows where he can produce his best football. I am sure Fergie knew that too but put him in a different position in order to play him
 
Devil may care said:
feck Klopp, having an opinion, outrageous bastard! I liked his comments about the tabloids. :lol:
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It is interesting that he knows about British newspaper culture. A closet Anglophile perhaps?

Personally I think that we signed Kagawa because he is a good player who happened to be cheap. I don't think that SAF had a cohesive plan in his mind as to getting that best out of the Kagmeister. That is unless SAF was always thinking about putting a bullet in Rooney's head and moving Kagawa into his place.
 
Escobar said:
I wonder why that is so hard to see. He knows him very well and knows where he can produce his best football. I am sure Fergie knew that too but put him in a different position in order to play him
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Once we signed Van Persie, he was never going to play in the hole instead of Rooney. I think had we signed Van Persie before the Kagawa signing, that we wouldn't have ended up signing Kagawa, because there wouldn't be a need for him. I'm glad we did because now he's had his settling in period, and Rooney looks to be on his way out so Kagawa can take his position.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Klopp himself played Kagawa out position several times. Even in the German cup final in which they murdered Bayern last season.
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Those are accurate:

11/12
10/11

In the cup final they played with Großkreutz and Blaszczykowski on the left and right.

Rowem said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Klopp shove Gotze on the wing to accommodate Kagawa in the centre? Was he crying for Gotze then?

His comments are fine in the self-serving sense that he's saying to his players: The grass isn't greener on the other side. But it's not a comment that has any actual relevance to how we should be utilizing Kagawa.
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That's different. Because Götze is a lot more versatile than Kagawa: he can play any position in the front three of a 4231 with ease and in theory as a striker too. He was Dortmund's best player in the first half of the 11/12 season, playing on the right. Also Dortmund play a different system than United. Their outer midfielders play very narrow when on the attack, they have the freedom to roam towards the center, often you see all 3 of their offensive midfielders in the center (or overloading one side) while the fullbacks provide width to their attacks.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Klopp himself played Kagawa out position several times. Even in the German cup final in which they murdered Bayern last season.
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I don't recall Kagawa being out of position in the Cup Final.

I thought he was in the middle of a three behind Lewandowski: Blaszczykowski, Kagawa, Grosskreutz.
 
Klopp is just sending out a message why players should stay at Dortmund. So don't get your knickers in a twist.
 
do.ob said:
Also Dortmund play a different system than United. Their outer midfielders play very narrow when on the attack, they have the freedom to roam towards the center, often you see all 3 of their offensive midfielders in the center (or overloading one side) while the fullbacks provide width to their attacks.
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That's how Kagawa plays when we have him on the left. He's hardly hugging the touchline. He plays extremely narrow. Valencia+Rafael give us width on the right, and Evra gives us width on the left. It's a very lopsided formation. We've rarely played with two proper wingers in recent seasons.
 
Absolutely nothing wrong with what Klopp said there. We've barely played Kagawa in his best position and he hasn't got that many chances indeed. Of course we can argue that it's more difficult to get games at United and that he hasn't adjusted to the league yet but Klopp only stated the facts there. He's probably a little pissed because in his side Kagawa would still be getting games behind Lewandowski with Reus, Götze and Błaszczykowski rotated on the wings.
 
If anything his comments should bring hope to people that the best of Kagawa is still yet to come. We've probably only seen a fraction of what he can potentially do here at United.

There is no reason people should hate Klopp. From what ive seen and read about the guy, he is awfully similar to a young, passionate, and emotional Alex Ferguson. We need more emotional managers around.
 
anything about now said:
If anything his comments should bring hope to people that the best of Kagawa is still yet to come. We've probably only seen a fraction of what he can potentially do here at United.

There is no reason people should hate Klopp. From what ive seen and read about the guy, he is awfully similar to a young, passionate, and emotional Alex Ferguson. We need more emotional managers around.
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Has anybody expressed any hate for Klopp?
 
I don't think Kagawa is one of the best players in the world personally

Decent squad player
 
Klopp is right though. And as mentioned earlier, Dortmund do play narrower, so them playing Kagawa on the left still made sense. We've played Kagawa as a central midfielder and touchline hugging midfielder a lot, which doesn't suit his strengths.
 
Pronewbie said:
Klopp is right though. And as mentioned earlier, Dortmund do play narrower, so them playing Kagawa on the left still made sense. We've played Kagawa as a central midfielder and touchline hugging midfielder a lot, which doesn't suit his strengths.
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Kagawa hasn't gone near the touchline when played out wide.
 
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