Özil didn't even play for Dortmund, ever.
That's correct but the point still stands..... Two trequartistas in top German sides & Kagawa's stats looked far more impressive for club & for country. Case closed!!!
Shinji Kagawa
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That's correct but the point still stands..... Two trequartistas in top German sides & Kagawa's stats looked far more impressive for club & for country. Case closed!!!
No, it doesn't. Bremen weren't even that good when Özil broke into their team, Dortmund were a far better and more accomplished side during Kagawa days. Another difference is Özil has actually gone to a top club and succeeded there and he looks like he's going to prove himself once more at Arsenal.
The less this guy plays, the better he seems to get for some of you lot.
I love Kagawa and personally I think that given the chance he can do better job than Rooney as our No.10. But this is nonsense, completely ridiculous.
Despite playing with great attacking players, Ozil easily became their second best player. Kagawa has yet to displace one of Valencia and Welbeck (to be fair it isn't all his fault for that, the manager plays a big part). I don't want even to continue Asia/Europe comparison more than to mention that Ali Daei (who?) has scored only two goals for international team less than Pele and Maradona combined. By your logic, he must be at-least as good as one of them, probably better than both of them combined. Right?
Have Kagawa been English, I think that yeah, he would had more chances here and become a more important player. But he would have never cost around 80m, not unless he was modificated genetically to become twice the player he is.
If Kagawa was English he'd have about 3 caps and a nice view from the bench as James Milner got picked ahead of him.
At Dortmund, his workrate was very good and in line with the high demands required to play in the Dortmund system of movement and pressing. He then came here where he was put into a system with less off ball movement, slower passing and non-existent pressing and had to adapt to more disciplined positioning. There's no point running around like a loon trying to close down when no-one else is doing it. Also, Rooney finding himself by the byline is a waste of (counter)attacking potential and speaks volumes of the lack of dominance we often suffer in midfield.
Kagawa is overrated in here however he's better then much of the shit we've got on our flanks. Id say stick to Nani and him on the flanks and lets see if there's an improvement
And Özil played out wide quite a bit for Bremen. The only point you can pull out of Hannibal's posts is that he's got no clue what he's talking about.
If you can't see that Kagawa is a harder worker and much better finisher then I don't really know what to say here. He's had some issues defensively when he's dragged back to left back because he's a poor defender 1v1 mainly due to his physical deficiencies, but as part of a defensive setup he's very useful. He was very effective against Alonso last year for example. For what it's worth I don't think Özil would've displaced Rooney either, he would've played out wide and been less effective. Rooney shapes our team's play and the style of play is one that is tailor-made for him.
This. I don't see what harm it can do if we simply don't let Valencia and Young near the first XI. Anyone coming in for them can't be worse and will probably be better.
His creativity is overrated. He's never been a creative powerhouse - all the comparisons to Silva over the last year or so
However, he was absolutely fantastic at what he actually did for Dortmund, support the striker from deep and score goals. Thats why Dortmund want him backHis creativity is overrated. He's never been a creative powerhouse - all the comparisons to Silva over the last year or so
He's may not be a creative powerhouse however I cant believe that he can provide less creativity then simply hug the line and deliver a cross.
feck all y'all
My line of thought is pretty simple. We lack quality and creativity. Our current first teamers are struggling to provide that. Considering that we're struggling to bring new players in then why shouldn't we try to rock the boat and try new options? Kagawa did very well with Dortmund and yet Moyes seems sticking to players who shouldn't have left the mid EPL table clubs they have came from in the first place.
Am I the only one that thinks Kagawa is more suited to our play than Özil then? People make jokes about how often we play the ball out wide and get the ball in the box while they simultaneously fawn over Kagawa's glorious football at Dortmund...yet if you watch that goals and assists video you'll see he gets it out wide and then occupies a position in the box waiting for a cross or cutback just like we do. He's already accustomed to some of our attacking play that Özil simply isn't suited to, and he's already shown he can enhance some of our attacking play with stuff like this:
Even if we don't adapt our style of play at all, this is the sort of stuff that he's entirely capable of offering us every week. This last gif was pretty much a carbon copy of his cross to Anderson last week and is the sort of thing he showed he was very capable of when out wide for Dortmund.
Am I the only one that thinks Kagawa is more suited to our play than Özil then? People make jokes about how often we play the ball out wide and get the ball in the box while they simultaneously fawn over Kagawa's glorious football at Dortmund...yet if you watch that goals and assists video you'll see he gets it out wide and then occupies a position in the box waiting for a cross or cutback just like we do. He's already accustomed to some of our attacking play that Özil simply isn't suited to, and he's already shown he can enhance some of our attacking play with stuff like this:Even if we don't adapt our style of play at all, this is the sort of stuff that he's entirely capable of offering us every week. This last gif was pretty much a carbon copy of his cross to Anderson last week and is the sort of thing he showed he was very capable of when out wide for Dortmund.
No, I'd say so too. There are reasons why he hasn't been an instant hit here, though. Partly to do with our system, partly to do with him not adapting well enough to said system.
We have seen a glimpse of something, though, which I think we should try to go for as our model of choice: Kagawa left, Nani right, Rooney in the middle - and all of them drifting a bit, swapping positions. This would suit them all, I think. And it's also a model which should suit several of our other attacking/wide options.
Is Bale worth £86m? Would Madrid pay £86m for Bale if he was born in Osaka?
Great attacking players? Ozil is easily the second best attacking player at Madrid. None of Di Maria, Benzema, Higuain, etc can come close. This was as clear as daylight during the world cup(even before Ozil moved to Spain). Besides, Ozil played with Ronaldo. A player who has scored 206 goals in 204 games for Madrid. It means more than half of Ozil's passes to Ronaldo would likely result to an assist for Ozil and more than 90% would result in a chance created. For Kagawa, probably only 10% of his passes would be converted to goals cos we don't have a goal machine like Ronaldo in our ranks.
I just hope we are patient with him because he is clearly getting more and more accustomed to our system and team. We were patient enough with Anderson, after all.
Dont think hes a better fit than Ozil, no. But if Welbeck can get into the box and get some goals from the left there's no reason Kagawa shouldn't. So I'd like to see him straining every sinew to get into the box from the left like he did from central
Just let him have a run in the team. If we had other players playing better than it would be fair enough to keep him out but literally in that wide spot we've seen some bright stuff from Nani but other then that no one bar Januzaj has looked particularly good but for the odd game/part of a game. If we're not gonna give Januzaj a run then let Kagawa have a go. We know what Valencia brings, we know what Young brings, but we've yet to see over a sustained period how much kagawa can bring to the team. If he doesn't perform over the run than we can take stock, but there's no point giving him say half a game and then taking him off. He's not a guy who's gonna be involved in everything, he'll probably fade in and out of games, but when he does come in to the game he could make a real difference. If not than at least we could say we tried it.
There's never been a more overrated player at United than Kagawa.
Still, hope Moyes does the right thing and starts him today. He's too good to be sitting on the bench
Still, hope Moyes does the right thing and starts him today. He's too good to be sitting on the bench
I want kagawa to get a run of games as much as anyone, but some of this stuff is just hilarious.The bits about kagawa replacing Ozil at Dortmund and Dortmund now being back in the wilderness without kagawa are brilliant
If this won't result in a tag line nothing will.
Kagawa is one of the most overrated players I've ever seen.
Rooneys been pretty overrated. Someone thought he was better than iniesta.
Kagawa isn't that overrated. It's just a case of a fantastic player taking time to adapt to his new club. All this praise won't look so silly when he starts reaching his Dortmund levels.
Just because he's not settled into his new club as well as he could. It's happened to a lot of top players.
The whole " he's so overrated" stuff is getting bandwagonish now. Whatever happened to giving players from different leagues time and patience to settle in? People should remember what happened with Drogba.
Also, wasn't kagawa quite productive last season?
Also, wasn't kagawa quite productive last season?
No Kagawa wasn't quite productive last season, I think given the chance he will shine though!
When I said "overrated", I meant the select few fanbois who do it are really painful to read. Overrated by them, is what I was precisely talking about.
people should also remember what the likes of Oscar, Mata and Aguero did? didnt take too long for them to settle in so relative to that he hasnt done well. He should have done better. But we will be patient with him and hope he will come good just like we have been patient with Anderson, hopefully the end result will not be different.
We're not being patient though - 45 minutes vs West Brom and we pulled him off, we're doing quite the opposite.
Hannibal, you absolute plonker, you had me go check which German club Ozil played for TWICE with the amount of times you were banging on about Dortmund!! You've left yourself with a proper red face there. What a spanner.
He may be as good as Ozil is some peoples minds, or have the potential to be but at least get the bloody teams right.
You've left yourself with a proper red face there. What a spanner. He may be as good as Ozil is some peoples minds, or have the potential to be but at least get the bloody teams right.
He had a pretty sweet goals/assist ratio, though. Only RVP, Rooney and Hernandez did better in that aspect. The next player on the list is faaaaaar behind Kagawa.
In fact, Kagawa and Hazard had almost the same goals/assist ratio. One can only imagine what would have happened if Kagawa didn't get injured for 30-40% of the season and got a nice run of games. He'd arguably have been even more consistent then.
Madmen perhaps.
At his current levels he's massively overrated. I am not questioning his quality but he's not as good as Ozil or even Rooney.
The people who rate him highly arent judging him on "current level". It's not everything. Taking time to adjust to a new league isnt unusual. If rooney went to barca and struggled to fit in, would he suddenly become average?
No but I doubt Barca fans would be calling for Iniesta to be dropped or played wide left and the entire team to be built around Rooney despite him not looking all that good
I simply don't accept that he's capable of reaching the required standard on our wing, he doesn't have any of the characteristics to be a success wide. Judging his time here on that basis is unfair. Also saying he should just adapt is crazy, no one thought Scholes should shut up and adapt when he was stuck wide for England.
I'd rather keep Nani and Valencia and just accept Kagawa is backup to Rooney.
I'd rather keep Nani and Valencia and just accept Kagawa is backup to Rooney.
Which means he'll start less than half as much as he did last season, unless Rooney gets injured long-term...
If we're not gonna use him, then sell him back to Dortmund. He's far too good to be on the bench.
Hopefully he gets a start centrally today.
For 50m please. Apparently their fans and manager think hes a better player than Ozil.
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