Shinji Kagawa
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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I watched 2 minutes of it. Reminded me of why I wanted him on the team so bad for a year or so before he finally came.
Completely wasted by Moyes at this point.
Formations we can play to get the best out of Kagawa, while also getting the best out of the team as a whole:
Offensive 4-3-3:
4-2-3-1(Rooney or RVP on the bench):
Offensive 4-3-3:
4-2-3-1(Rooney or RVP on the bench):
I think that second one above is what lots of us would want to see. We don't need to start RVP and Rooney in every single league fixture, especially if neither of them are in particularly good form like now. Why he hasn't given that 4-2-3-1 a shot, I don't know.
The offensive 4-3-3 gets my vote, although both are obviously better than what we are employing on the field at the minute.
When you look at that Dortmund side and you're reminded he has 45 minutes in the PL this season...
When you look at that Dortmund side and you're reminded he has 45 minutes in the PL this season...
Klopp and Kagawa must be crying in sync
There's actually very little between those two formations in reality - the midfield (including Kagawa) are basically doing the same thing, and while the 4231 theoretically offers more width, Nani would end up playing his own game, which involves both going wide and cutting inside in either formation. So really it's pretty much just Januzaj's wing play vs Rooney playing more like a centre-forward.
I have to say, the 4231 looks better to me, even though I don't buy into the idea that either RVP or Rooney should be dropped because of form. It's only taken about 1.5 matches off the boil for people to denounce Rooney as off-form, despite him being excellent for most of the season (and for England just a week ago today). RVP's not been at his best, but (again, with help from the internationals) he's starting to get amongst the goals again, and I'm pretty sure he's not far off.
I'm not averse to them sharing the role, and we can always mix it up with the 433. The most annoying thing for me remains the lack of opportunity for Hernandez.
That is partly why i preferred the 4-3-3, as the 4-2-3-1 would effectively leave him thrid in line for his best position.
Let's put this another way, i can't see a majority on here being dissatisfied with the general thrust of those proposed formations/XIs.
4-3-3 for me, more fluid
I don't think he's suggesting dropping Rooney or RVP based on form. I think it's more because we can't have both in the same team if we want to move to more of a 3 man midfield, but because we have both and both are world class, in a way it's holding us back in that we can only keep using a 4-4-2 (especially in Rooney now demanding to play up front).
Formations we can play to get the best out of Kagawa, while also getting the best out of the team as a whole:
Offensive 4-3-3:
4-2-3-1(Rooney or RVP on the bench):
Would love to see the second one. Probably with Rooney up front atm as RvP has been in a bit of a shit form lately.
That video. Wow. I wish he played for United.
The midfield around him in that looked a lot more mobile than what we're currently working with, and it looks like those spaces and interplay are what those passes thrived on. Much different than getting the ball and seeing Fellaini/Carrick static 10 yards behind you.
I hate to say it but it looks like he'd slot in nicely with Arsenal.
The midfield around him in that looked a lot more mobile than what we're currently working with, and it looks like those spaces and interplay are what those passes thrived on. Much different than getting the ball and seeing Fellaini/Carrick static 10 yards behind you.
I hate to say it but it looks like he'd slot in nicely with Arsenal.
Barcelona too..
His coach back in Japan even said that he was disappointed that Kagawa ended up in United, and not Barca.
Pfff
Yeah feck that guy, Barca didn't go for him and he's one of us now! Also feck Kagawa's fanboys, if they want to watch Dortmund with shinji they can download his dortmund games or actually watch Dortmund and get the feck out!
Formations we can play to get the best out of Kagawa, while also getting the best out of the team as a whole:
Offensive 4-3-3:
4-2-3-1(Rooney or RVP on the bench):
Those both look good to me. No way we should be playing Fellaini and Carrick at the same time.
Carrick ---- Cleverley
Kagawa
Would be a nice midfield three but Moyes isn't going to drop Rooney or shift him to the wing so it seems a waste of time hoping for it (though I must enjoy wasting my time as I posted it in the matchday thread )
)Yeah, feck people for wanting a quality player on the squad to be used instead of rotting on the bench.
What a bunch of asshole.s
Carrick-Cleverley axis to support Kagawa seems to be the our best combination. Maybe Anderson on a good day can subs for Cleverley. Looking at how Dortmund play, it seems that the one of the two midfielder behind Kagawa is very mobile (Gundogan, Sahin). This is logical considering Kagawa does his best work in the final third, they will need someone to link the play from the DM to Kagawa.
Which is why the signing of Fellaini, probably the most immobile midfielder in the league, all more stupid
Which is why the signing of Fellaini, probably the most immobile midfielder in the league, all more stupid
feck the people who say this sort of thing and attack people for defending kagawa's decision, and seeing that good form and training gets one a place.
What a bunch of arseholes.
It's not something I see getting suggested much, if at all, but...
We might have to sacrifice van Persie to facilitate Kagawa. I know the majority would rather see Rooney shafted, but that's not gonna happen. I mean, wasn't that the original plan? Kagawa behind Shrek.
Rooney has clearly been given a role as a striker, and I don't think Moyes has the bottle to start moving around his position again. Which brings us to the thirty year old van Persie... He hasn't been great this season, but he's probably the best striker in the league. It's a possibility.
We might have to sacrifice van Persie to facilitate Kagawa. I know the majority would rather see Rooney shafted, but that's not gonna happen. I mean, wasn't that the original plan? Kagawa behind Shrek.
Rooney has clearly been given a role as a striker, and I don't think Moyes has the bottle to start moving around his position again. Which brings us to the thirty year old van Persie... He hasn't been great this season, but he's probably the best striker in the league. It's a possibility.
The teams fecked then if we're gonna persist with 4-4-2.
If Moyes came in with a view to playing players on merit, then they should both be starting ahead of Kagawa. RVP hasn't been great by his standards, but he's scoring. Rooney has put in some of the best individual performances so far this season.
Kagawa will probably start tomorrow so we could do with him to put in a good display and start to show what he can do once again.
He'll be played on the left again though, won't he? Moyes is gonna have to grow some bollocks and drop one of Rooney or van Persie if this is gonna work.
Really hoping to see this soon
- Carrick Cleverley
Nani Kagawa Januzaj
----- Striker
- Carrick Cleverley
Nani Kagawa Januzaj
----- Striker
We need to start deploying this system.
In the eight games so far Moyes two striker system has not worked.
RVP with Kagawa behind him, its so simple. There's just one huge elephant in the room and his name is Wayne Rooney. And he doesn't even want to be here.
I hope RVP and Kagawa get a few games together to see if they can strike up a partnership fast, before Kagawa moves on and we never gave him a go with our best striker.
I hope RVP and Kagawa get a few games together to see if they can strike up a partnership fast, before Kagawa moves on and we never gave him a go with our best striker.
Nope. Since the plan was sign RVP and win the league, which happened by the way. In RVP and Kagawa behind we have enough for life after Rooney but we'd obviously spend money too.
Why can't Kagawa play wide on the left for United? What about Kagawa is so special that he absolutely must play a central role for United? Numerous other attacking midfielders and playmakers occupy wide roles, why can't Kagawa? Why must the club drop one of two world class players in Rooney and van Persie to accommodate the unproven Kagawa? What makes Rooney playing behind van Persie fundamentally different to Kagawa in that role? Why can't Kagawa operate on the left, with license to drift inside? The 18 year-old Januzaj has managed to impress and secure a role in this position in less than a handful of games, a similar player to Kagawa, yet Kagawa, despite being heralded as world class by many on this forum, is apparently incapable of playing this position. He plays on the left for his national team to accommodate Honda, yet many United fans think the clearly superior Rooney or van Persie should be dropped to accommodate Kagawa, despite Kagawa being perfectly capable of playing a wide role.
Kagawa only has himself to blame for failing to establish himself at United. His apologists need to stop looking for excuses and need to stop insulting proven quality in the team. The player is approaching a near mythical status, the answer to all our woes despite showing only brief glimpses of quality in over a year at the club. It is particularly damning that an 18 year-old kid in his first few appearances of first team football has shown more desire and application of talent than Kagawa ever has at United.
Kagawa only has himself to blame for failing to establish himself at United. His apologists need to stop looking for excuses and need to stop insulting proven quality in the team. The player is approaching a near mythical status, the answer to all our woes despite showing only brief glimpses of quality in over a year at the club. It is particularly damning that an 18 year-old kid in his first few appearances of first team football has shown more desire and application of talent than Kagawa ever has at United.
It seems like we have been having this same conversation since he arrived..
Tells me how much you know about Kagawa
This.
Kagawa can play wide left, but he's going to be a lot less influencial than he is able to be in the middle. He doesn't have the pace some of our wide players have, which I assume is the only reason Young and Valencia get starts, and Kagawa most importantly isn't as free to do the big, outstanding thing he did for Dortmund and what Klopp was talking about when he said he was dissappointed by how we've used him. He's not able to get forward and support the striker from midfield as much which is how he scored his goals for Dortmund
It's common knowledge the original plan was to play Shinji behind Rooney. Later, however, van Persie became available and it was an opportunity we couldn't pass up.
What is fundamentally different about Kagawa playing on the left as opposed to Januzaj? If anything, Januzaj should suffer more, a more creative player, but he's thrived and is playing with an enthusiasm and confidence Kagawa has never shown.
If Kagawa was as good as is being suggested, he too would find a way to thrive starting from wide areas.
I do agree that Moyes has treated him unfairly, and he should be used more often, but there is no reason why he should not be able to perform to a suitable level if played out wide in a similar manner to Januzaj.
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