Shinji Kagawa

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well we cant complain Kagawa is getting more game time, i think with Carrick around him he can only improve the team more.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I hope Valencia doesnt start. Nani offers so much more going forward.
Click to expand...
Valencia is consistently our best winger easily when in form and he is coming back to form, hope Nani gets nowhere near the right wing just now.
 
Lawman said:
Valencia is consistently our best winger easily when in form and he is coming back to form, hope Nani gets nowhere near the right wing just now.
Click to expand...

Consistently our best? When was this, two seasons back?

He's been consistently awful for a long time, and only now showing some signs of improvement. Nani has out performed him, when fit, throughout this period (which isn't saying a lot of course).
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Consistently our best? When was this, two seasons back?

He's been consistently awful for a long time, and only now showing some signs of improvement. Nani has out performed him, when fit, throughout this period (which isn't saying a lot of course).
Click to expand...

Read my post, I said consistently our best "when on form" he has had a bad fracture came back and struggled. Nani has done what in this time? Looks like Valencia's coming into form if that happens we have a real chance of winning the league as the man is a machine when on form.
 
Lawman said:
Read my post, I said consistently our best "when on form" he has had a bad fracture came back and struggled. Nani has done what in this time? Looks like Valencia's coming into form if that happens we have a real chance of winning the league as the man is a machine when on form.
Click to expand...
I read it. It contradicted itself. Being "in form" and not "out of form" is part of being consistent. He's been consistent at only one thing over the last season and almost half and that's being usually average and often poor. His consistent performances are a thing of the quite

Nani hasn't set the world alight in this time either but there's no doubt he's performed better (which isn't actually a compliment to him since hes been disappointing too).

I wouldn't say either should be well ahead of the other in the pecking order at the moment. But I'd prefer Nani to be if one was ahead.
 
Arguing over who has been less shittiest winger over the last 12 to 18 months for FFS. Thank god Januzaj has burst on to the scene and has appeared to have cemented one of the winger spots. If Kagawa is not a short, medium or long term solution to the other wide role, could do with Zaha stepping up, and putting pressure on the likes of Valencia and Nani.
 
Would love to see him in either of these formations were he can play central:

-----Carrick-------Felliani-----
-----------Kagawa------------
--Janazaj---RVP---Rooney--

or

-----Carrick-------Felliani-----
---------------Clev-------------
------------Kagawa-----------
----------RVP----Rooney-----
 
He won't play at the weekend. He'll be on the bench, which is no more than his performances has deserved.
 
I'm quite surprised people are really impressed by last nights's performance. I thought he was quite good at times and did some really nice stuff but he drifted in and out of the game at times too.
 
Brophs said:
I'm quite surprised people are really impressed by last nights's performance. I thought he was quite good at times and did some really nice stuff but he drifted in and out of the game at times too.
Click to expand...

Same old story. He was excellent as a No.10 and very average in the left wing. He won't start against Arsenal as No.10, so I think it makes more sense to start someone else (Adnan) in the left wing.
 
Brophs said:
I'm quite surprised people are really impressed by last nights's performance. I thought he was quite good at times and did some really nice stuff but he drifted in and out of the game at times too.
Click to expand...
People will look for any excuse to get excited about him.

I only caught the last 25 minutes but he did look good in the #10 role.
 
Brophs said:
I'm quite surprised people are really impressed by last nights's performance. I thought he was quite good at times and did some really nice stuff but he drifted in and out of the game at times too.
Click to expand...

That's my main pb with him, he plays with fear whereas he has the talent to be more inventive with his passing and general play.
 
He needs to start taking games by the proverbial scruff of the neck. That's what he needs to do.

Adnan Januzaj, 18 year-old nobody, does that. That's incidentally why he plays a lot.
 
marjen said:
He needs to start taking games by the proverbial scruff of the neck. That's what he needs to do.

Adnan Januzaj, 18 year-old nobody, does that. That's incidentally why he plays a lot.
Click to expand...

I thought in the short time he played behind the striker he did just that.

He got the ball, turned and ran at the defence and played some cute passes to RVP which really got the momentum going for us. He really does look so much more comfortable in that area.
 
Theon said:
Get real, Rooney is on another level.
Click to expand...


Rooney is, at this stage, a better player, no doubt. But in the number ten position, I think Kagawa has more to offer. His technique and short passing is superior to that of Rooney. Also, he is better at linking up and varying the play in and around the box than Rooney. Rooney is a better striker and will get you more goals, even as a number ten, arguably more assists also - but look beyond the stats, and I think Kagawa makes for a more fluid game than Rooney, whom I consider to be best as a striker.
 
The thing is, besides now, look 3-4 years down the line. RvP likely won't be first choice, Rooney either won't be here, or likely winding down, and Kagawa will be in his prime. If he's still here, he should be a star, and one of our most important players, of course that all depends on getting him the game time now.
 
Earthquake said:
The thing is, besides now, look 3-4 years down the line. RvP likely won't be first choice, Rooney either won't be here, or likely winding down, and Kagawa will be in his prime. If he's still here, he should be a star, and one of our most important players, of course that all depends on getting him the game time now.
Click to expand...

Its hard to imagine him hanging around that long without being a regular starter unfortunately. Its difficult to escape the sense that signing RVP in the same summer coupled with a lack of versatility might have done for his chances here.

Good performance from him yesterday but not enough to elevate him above Januzaj for the left wing position yet, and certainly not enough to displace Rooney. Good to see him getting game time though. Ideally I;d always like to see either him or Adnan on the pitch as we need that additional guile and ability to pick a pass. Given that we can't play Januzaj every game then that would mean Kagawa gets plenty of playing time if he produces.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Its hard to imagine him hanging around that long without being a regular starter unfortunately. Its difficult to escape the sense that signing RVP in the same summer coupled with a lack of versatility might have done for his chances here.

Good performance from him yesterday but not enough to elevate him above Januzaj for the left wing position yet, and certainly not enough to displace Rooney. Good to see him getting game time though. Ideally I;d always like to see either him or Adnan on the pitch as we need that additional guile and ability to pick a pass. Given that we can't play Januzaj every game then that would mean Kagawa gets plenty of playing time if he produces.
Click to expand...
Yup, it's not hard to imagine the plan for him was bigger before RvP was on the cards.
 
As soon as he moved into the middle he looked a lot more comfortable and thus a lot more threatening, can't expect him to do the same on the left. Some players can play well in multiple positions and some can't, Kagawa can't seem to from what I have seen and you can't hold that against him as his position is in the hole. I doubt we said to him "you will play left wing because we already got Rooney" when we bought him.

I can see him doing really well if given a run in the hole but with Rooney's form this season, that looks unlikely... Its difficult to see what will happen with Kagawa unless Rooney or RVP leave.
 
Rossa said:
Rooney is, at this stage, a better player, no doubt. But in the number ten position, I think Kagawa has more to offer. His technique and short passing is superior to that of Rooney. Also, he is better at linking up and varying the play in and around the box than Rooney. Rooney is a better striker and will get you more goals, even as a number ten, arguably more assists also - but look beyond the stats, and I think Kagawa makes for a more fluid game than Rooney, whom I consider to be best as a striker.
Click to expand...

Are you basing this on his time at Utd?

If so I honestly don't know where you've been able to draw those conclusions.
 
I still don't think it's quite as simple as "stick him in the middle and he'll be pure gold". It depends alot on his ability to play a slightly different game from the one he's most comfortable with, i.e. with lots of movement around him and whatnot (we've been over this a thousand times, it seems). But he is obviously more at home in the middle, of that there can be little doubt.

The problem is obvious. He won't simply walk in and take up Rooney's position. Which means that the first step for him is to transfer some of what he showed - still only in glimpses, for me, be it said - in the middle last night in a wide-ish role to the left. I think he can do this: He looked more at ease last night as the match progressed - even before he was moved into the middle. He needs regular game time - I think (or at least hope) it's not more complicated than this. If he can find some consistency and form on the left his chances of being employed in the middle whenever that opportunity arises will be all the greater. Then all he has to do is show the world he is indeed a world beating No 10 - and Rooney will have to move up front on a regular basis. But we are far from that point as we speak.
 
He was ok most of the game. He looked a different player when Rooney went off and he moved inside. Was much better.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
The problem is obvious. He won't simply walk in and take up Rooney's position. Which means that the first step for him is to transfer some of what he showed - still only in glimpses, for me, be it said - in the middle last night in a wide-ish role to the left. I think he can do this: He looked more at ease last night as the match progressed - even before he was moved into the middle. He needs regular game time - I think (or at least hope) it's not more complicated than this. If he can find some consistency and form on the left his chances of being employed in the middle whenever that opportunity arises will be all the greater. Then all he has to do is show the world he is indeed a world beating No 10 - and Rooney will have to move up front on a regular basis. But we are far from that point as we speak.
Click to expand...


Rooney won't be dropped from the 10. He is already inconsistent and should be at least fighting for his position.. For a player in his prime, the number of games he has like yesterday are far too many.

Rob Smyth had this to say during the minute b minute yesterday and I agree.

Mind you, Moyes and the imposters also went for Herrera. The problem for Kagawa is simple: Rooney and the cult of the English footballer.
Click to expand...

Rooney's problem is between his ears. For all the talent he has, we see way too many games like yesterday. I'd like to see Kagawa get a few starts in the position just to light a fire under his ass. Or Januzaj. Right now he thinks he deserves it no matter what he does. And so do many on these boards.

I also believe he's gone in the summer, so I don't like the idea of stunting our younger players development when we aren't going to win the title, and that clearly factors into my thinking.
 
You're really going to dispute Nani offering more than Valencia going forward?
 
When I say that I want Rooney out of the no.10 position, it's by means an attack on him as a player. I genuinely think that the team and Rooney himself would benefit from this. He'd have to battle it out with RVP, which obviously sucks for him, but I think that his general performance would be a lot better when plays.

The "problem" with Rooney, is that he's a striker. When he plays well, he usually fulfills the role of a striker by scoring goals and being present in the attacking play. Just like that, he manages to conceal his lack of "AM skills". "He ran a lot and scored goals": what more can we expect from him?

But when Rooney fails to score or assist, that's when his flaws are highlighted more than anything. Those misplaced passes are suddenly very easy to notice. His lack of creativity and constantly pumping the ball towards the wingers start to get annoying. And the way he just manages to lose possession, even under slight pressure, is just mind-boggling for a player of his quality. But it happens!

But would this happen if he was allowed to only focus on scoring and moving around on the opponent's half? I don't think so. I think Rooney would flourish as the main striker with a proper AM behind him. And so would the team. I know it's against the Football Manager religion to put a world class player on the bench, but sometimes it's the necessary move. In our case, I think it is.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
Rooney won't be dropped from the 10. He is already inconsistent and should be at least fighting for his position.. For a player in his prime, the number of games he has like yesterday are far too many.

Rob Smyth had this to say during the minute b minute yesterday and I agree.



Rooney's problem is between his ears. For all the talent he has, we see way too many games like yesterday. I'd like to see Kagawa get a few starts in the position just to light a fire under his ass. Or Januzaj. Right now he thinks he deserves it no matter what he does. And so do many on these boards.

I also believe he's gone in the summer, so I don't like the idea of stunting our younger players development when we aren't going to win the title, and that clearly factors into my thinking.
Click to expand...

Yeah - look, I for one can see a point or two there. Especially about him leaving. But as long as we don't know that he is, there is not a great deal we can do. He produces more often than not, in terms of what people call end product. And whether Kagawa can become a consistently brilliant playmaker in the CAM role for us is still an X factor. I maintain that an in-form Rooney can be devastating behind RVP in that role of his IF we can get some stability and solidity behind 'em AND get both wide men to perform consistently well. The imminent task for Kagawa is to make himself first choice as one of those wide men. And then we can take it from there.

The cult of the English footballer part implies that we should alter our basic approach, really - and start playing a more "continental" kind of football with a "proper" CAM. Perhaps we should. But I'm not entirely convinced about that, actually. As I've said many times, Rooney in his somewhat irregular role could actually give us an edge if the rest of the set-up works. He is far more deadly than your standard No 10 - and IF we can get him and RVP to finally click properly on a regular basis we could be sitting on something our rivals don't possess. Lots of ifs at the moment, admittedly. But Kagawa in the hole for us, given our present CM situation, is another big if.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
But Kagawa in the hole for us, given our present CM situation, is another big if.
Click to expand...

It really is the exact opposite. Kagawa arguably drops deeper than Rooney, and his off-the-ball movement is also superior. Maybe not in terms of distance, but definitely when it comes to clever possitioning. This is one of Kagawa's greatest strengths, and it's a massive help for the CM to have a player like him there to tie things together. It's also a relief to have a player who wont squander possession easily. It will allow our CMs to actually make offensive off-the-ball movements, something in which have been totally non-existent these days.

Kagawa will score fewer goals than Rooney in the AM position, but he'll fix our general attacking play, which again will lead to better football and more chances(and goals) created. I'd much rather have that.
 
Mad Winger said:
When I say that I want Rooney out of the no.10 position, it's by means an attack on him as a player. I genuinely think that the team and Rooney himself would benefit from this. He'd have to battle it out with RVP, which obviously sucks for him, but I think that his general performance would be a lot better when plays.

The "problem" with Rooney, is that he's a striker. When he plays well, he usually fulfills the role of a striker by scoring goals and being present in the attacking play. Just like that, he manages to conceal his lack of "AM skills". "He ran a lot and scored goals": what more can we expect from him?

But when Rooney fails to score or assist, that's when his flaws are highlighted more than anything. Those misplaced passes are suddenly very easy to notice. His lack of creativity and constantly pumping the ball towards the wingers start to get annoying. And the way he just manages to lose possession, even under slight pressure, is just mind-boggling for a player of his quality. But it happens!

But would this happen if he was allowed to only focus on scoring and moving around on the opponent's half? I don't think so. I think Rooney would flourish as the main striker with a proper AM behind him. And so would the team. I know it's against the Football Manager religion to put a world class player on the bench, but sometimes it's the necessary move. In our case, I think it is.
Click to expand...

I've said it before and I'll gladly say it again: Try Kagawa in the hole behind Rooney whenever this is possible - and if it makes us a better team, well, presto. Even if it means dropping RVP - or dropping Rooney in favour of RVP. Or Chicharito. But there are many things which at the moment make it difficult to go for this set-up as plan A.
 
Mad Winger said:
It really is the exact opposite. Kagawa arguably drops deeper than Rooney, and his off-the-ball movement is also superior. Maybe not in terms of distance, but definitely when it comes to clever possitioning. This is one of Kagawa's greatest strengths, and it's a massive help for the CM to have a player like him there to tie things together. It's also a relief to have a palyer who wont squander possession easily. It will allow our CMs to actually make offensive off-the-ball movements, something in which have been totally non-existent these days.

Kagawa will score fewer goals than Rooney in the AM position, but he'll fix our general attacking play, which again will lead to better football and more chances(and goals) created. I'd much rather have that.
Click to expand...

Rubbish, and Rooney's off the ball positioning is brilliant, I don't know how you come up with these conclusions.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I've said it before and I'll gladly say it again: Try Kagawa in the hole behind Rooney whenever this is possible - and if it makes us a better team, well, presto. Even if it means dropping RVP - or dropping Rooney in favour of RVP. Or Chicharito. But there are many things which at the moment make it difficult to go for this set-up as plan A.
Click to expand...
Thing is it's such a long season I don't see why we can't rotate in favor of it. I mean does Rooney need to play every single game whether it's premier league or champions league where we have 9 points out of 9? I'd love to see Kagawa play in the no.10 position once in awhile behind either of those (preferably rvp).
 
Mad Winger said:
It really is the exact opposite. Kagawa arguably drops deeper than Rooney, and his off-the-ball movement is also superior. Maybe not in terms of distance, but definitely when it comes to clever possitioning. This is one of Kagawa's greatest strengths, and it's a massive help for the CM to have a player like him there to tie things together. It's also a relief to have a palyer who wont squander possession easily. It will allow our CMs to actually make offensive off-the-ball movements, something in which have been totally non-existent these days.

Kagawa will score fewer goals than Rooney in the AM position, but he'll fix our general attacking play, which again will lead to better football and more chances(and goals) created. I'd much rather have that.
Click to expand...

That's a major assumption, mate. He will be playing in front of a CM pairing that...well, we certainly haven't got a brilliant CM pairing at the moment, do we? And he'll play with wingers on either side of him over whom huge question marks hang: The one to truly rely on at the moment seems to be a lad of eighteen.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.