I think that bar Welbeck he's the most hard working player in our team, when we've had those CL graphics of games he's played in, he's always topping the ground-covered charts.
Shinji Kagawa
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I think that bar Welbeck he's the most hard working player in our team, when we've had those CL graphics of games he's played in, he's always topping the ground-covered charts.
I've not seen these stats but covering ground doesn't necessarily equate to hard work. I'm not saying that you're wrong but there's so many Kagawa apologists on here that seem to think he's bit at all to blame for him being completely underwhelming for a season and a half - I disagree and think he needs to work harder to get involved in the game.
He actually took a few shots today! should definitely have scored the 2nd half chance, it would have done him the world of good the poor bugger. Played much better behind the striker as expected, but seemed to actually battle harder and imposed himself much better into the game.
I liked that he didnt keep passing whenever he had the chance, Neville criticised him for not laying it off to welbeck but I think shooting was the correct choice.
Anyway lets hope the improvement continues.
I liked that he didnt keep passing whenever he had the chance, Neville criticised him for not laying it off to welbeck but I think shooting was the correct choice.
Anyway lets hope the improvement continues.
He was poor on the left but did alright in the middle. I still don't think he looks good enough for United.
Not one of those you've mentioned and I agree with the bolded, but I'd never say that he's 'lazy'. He's a hard worker but he needs to adjust it so he benefits more from it.
Ya, he wasn't one of the best players for Dortmund, the last team to take the Bundesliga from Bayern in 2011-2012. Clearly this United team is stronger than that Dortmund. So ya, I totally agree, he just isn't good enough for this all conquering squad we currently have.
I thought he was patchy in the first half, much better in the second. He shouldn't have dicked around for that shot that was cleared, though.
He did help link things, but he frustrated a lot with his decision making and at times poor distribution, you expect more from him in those situations, you know he can do it, just do it more consistently.
Really could have laid it back to the raf but I won't hold it against them.
Why did Moyes feck around by starting him wide (before changing)? He is a No. 10 and that is that. If it limits his appearances in the team because of Rooney's presence, fine, but not only is he more productive in the centre, but is less of a liability defensively than when he plays left.
Why do people ask questions that were answered a few posts back pretty explicitly.
Again to remind you, Ferguson was the one who started playing him wide pretty much every appearance he made.
Typical that Kagawa was going to have a great second half when I was only able to see the first 25 minutes
It's good to read that Moyes wised up and switched Kagawa and Januzaj. I love Januzaj, but I just don't see him playing in the AM position yet. For all his nice shots and dribbles, he's too inexperienced and sloppy in the crucial phases of the game to have such a central role. He's doing great on the wing, so I see no need to change that for now.
I hope that Moyes finally understands that Kagawa should be bankers for the AM posistion when Rooney or RVP are out. Sometimes even when both are fit. Kagawa's been ranging from good to great 90% of the time he's been played in the AM position since March last year. Surely he deserves more chances.
It's good to read that Moyes wised up and switched Kagawa and Januzaj. I love Januzaj, but I just don't see him playing in the AM position yet. For all his nice shots and dribbles, he's too inexperienced and sloppy in the crucial phases of the game to have such a central role. He's doing great on the wing, so I see no need to change that for now.
I hope that Moyes finally understands that Kagawa should be bankers for the AM posistion when Rooney or RVP are out. Sometimes even when both are fit. Kagawa's been ranging from good to great 90% of the time he's been played in the AM position since March last year. Surely he deserves more chances.
He's shown hardly anything for United in the last 2 seasons. Berbatov got to a CL final at Leverkusen, Hargreaves was supposedly a world class midfielder at Bayern and Veron looked like one of the best players in the world at Lazio.
He looks a lot more comfortable operating centrally but that is kind of the problem, as soon as Rooney is back he'll return to the left and most likely more uninspiring performances where he struggles to make an impact.
Berbatov
Except that kagawa thrives when we play a better, quicker brand of football whereas berba thrived when we slowed our play down and played more boring football.
That is true but this season he has reminded me of Berba so much....That chance today, that was Berbatov to a tee
Good in the second half. Still think Welbeck and Januzaj do more than him and would prefer them to stay in the team once Rooney and RVP are back (which may be a while admittedly).
Yeah me too.
I'd take Rooney playing up top and Welbeck replacing Valencia down the right
Thought he was much better.
Cause he wanted Adnan to play that role in this match.
Luckily they swapped positions.
Welbeck played right before didn't he? I'd not mind seeing it again, might even have a half decent cross.
Anything to get Kagawa a proper run at the 10 spot.
I wish Moyes would just give him a run of games in the 10 spot. He might not have much choice the way injuries are going
Only has himself to blame for his record in front of goal. It's amazing how he can do such good work and set himself up so nicely only to fluff his lines every time. That one on one chance. When he beat the defender, you just knew he would stuff it up somehow. It's a shame because he really deserves to score when he plays like that and the fans would love it.
He said this recently:
It's a bit of a cliché but hopefully one goal will open the floodgates for him because he gets into some good positions to open up space and get his shots off. He scored 17 in his last season for Dortmund iirc so despite his current struggles in front of goal, we know he has it in him.
Best thing about him is that he tried to shoot and tried to play more positively in the second half. Again it's mostly psychological his issues, he has the technique, the intelligence but for whatever he hasn't been performing that great and that takes into account when he plays behind the striker.
I do have a feeling that once he gets one, they'll start coming easily.
Besides a few good moments from Shinji in the second half I thought he again flattered to deceive - someone who plays regularly on the left for his country looks completely out of his depth on that side of the pitch. The reason he looked better in the second half was just due to the whole team starting to function well as soon as the goals went in very early in second half. Confidence was the key factor.
I really like him playing down the middle. He's technically such a class player and really thrives in those pockets of space where he can turn and link up. Him in the centre with Januzaj wide is perfect.
I agree, he plays on the left for Japan and is amazing for them, but for us he is lacking.
I think the set up of Japan is quiet different, he is their key man and everyone around him seems to work for him and be available. Here, it's a bit different, he's almost and out and out winger who is expected to beat the RB and to cross the ball. That's not his game and in the first half, it showed as he seemed a bit lost at what to do. I hope he finds his perfect position/role soon at United
You think he was good to great when he played there against Everton and Shaktar? I've no idea how reliable the WhoScored ratings are but Kagawa was given the lowest rating in the team in both of those games and I don't remember him being good there at all. He was ok and certainly not the worst player, but not good enough to be an automatic starter in such a key position. If we'd have played him there from the start yesterday I could easily have seen him giving a similar performance to the Shaktar team. Kagawa started playing better because the team started playing better. For 15 minutes before the second half he was just as peripheral in that #10 role. When he's played out on the left no-one is expecting him to stick to the touchline and whip in crosses, but what he should be doing is drifting in-field and playing clever passes to Evra. I don't think he did that once in the game, yet Januzaj had already done it a handful of times 15 minutes into the first half.
I don't get the Shinji love.
Out of everyone in our team - he's probably done the least with the options handed to him. He's been awful in a few positions for us. People keep saying "He needs to be in x position" but if you can only cut it when you play in one position where our other best players are, I'm sorry but you're in trouble.
I think Mockney said something earlier. There is a massive hype around these frail little number 10's at the moment. Almost as if a whole generation of football fans at once realised that having big bulky bruisers playing up front weren't the way forward, so as a result we have to latch on to all these little miniature number 10's.
It's all well and good saying "He thrives off quick football" but before the second half yesterday he'd gone over 500 minutes without creating a chance for United. That's ridiculous for a player as advanced as him. So if he isn't creating chances, he isn't getting back (yesterday he gave Evra no help at all) and he isn't scoring where does this reputation come from?
Yes I realise Kagawa is associated with a type of football that is currently in fashion. 2 million short passes before a great finish from a forward but it's clearly not working for us. People are complaining he might not play against Chelsea. Who out of Rooney/Welbeck deserves to be dropped for him on this seasons form? Or do you want to see him on the left again.
Out of everyone in our team - he's probably done the least with the options handed to him. He's been awful in a few positions for us. People keep saying "He needs to be in x position" but if you can only cut it when you play in one position where our other best players are, I'm sorry but you're in trouble.
I think Mockney said something earlier. There is a massive hype around these frail little number 10's at the moment. Almost as if a whole generation of football fans at once realised that having big bulky bruisers playing up front weren't the way forward, so as a result we have to latch on to all these little miniature number 10's.
It's all well and good saying "He thrives off quick football" but before the second half yesterday he'd gone over 500 minutes without creating a chance for United. That's ridiculous for a player as advanced as him. So if he isn't creating chances, he isn't getting back (yesterday he gave Evra no help at all) and he isn't scoring where does this reputation come from?
Yes I realise Kagawa is associated with a type of football that is currently in fashion. 2 million short passes before a great finish from a forward but it's clearly not working for us. People are complaining he might not play against Chelsea. Who out of Rooney/Welbeck deserves to be dropped for him on this seasons form? Or do you want to see him on the left again.
Agree. Too much emphasis is being put on the tactical set up when the real change Moyes made at half-time was to the mindset of the players. I think Januzaj is more effective on the flank than Kagawa but the real change in both of them was a shot of confidence, which must have come from Moyes' half time team talk. From the hesitant, scared to try anything out of the ordinary Shinji Kagawa that we saw in the first half we saw a more determined, less risk averse Shinji Kagawa in the second half. That may have led to Kagawa spurning the chance to put the game beyond doubt, and maybe he should've whacked it when he received Rafa's pass, but the silver lining to that cloud is that he felt comfortable enough to express his true self by trying the dink. Hopefully that comfort and confidence stay with Shinji because until Rooney and Van Persie are back we are going to need him to keep performing.
As always, when he was given more of a free role after he had swapped with Januzaj, Kagawa looked far more threatening. Should have scored at least one goal, but general performance after he was moved to a central position was once again excellent.
People still call for Kagawa to be on his way out, that he is underperforming and needs to buck up his ideas, yet every time I see him play through the middle, our entire attack looks completely different - more fluidity, better tempo etc.
It is unfortunately evident that Shinji is simply not as effective on the left, and his performances show that. The thing I don't understand is why everyone assumes that if someone can play as an attacking midfielder, they must also automatically be able to play as a winger? Kagawa is obviously wasted out wide, I would sooner see Januzaj or even Rooney out on the left if it meant Kagawa playing centrally.
At the end of the day though, I think we just want a fluid front four with Rooney, Kagawa and Januzaj - on the right ideally I would like to see Nani but he needs to start earning his place.
Failing that we could even look at a Christmas tree formation with Rooney spearheading, Kagawa and Januzaj behind him and then a midfield three;
----------------Rooney
--------Kagawa ---- Januzaj
---Cleverley* - Carrick - Fletcher*
*For a more attacking lineup we could even play the likes of Young or Valencia instead of Cleverley and Fletcher.
People still call for Kagawa to be on his way out, that he is underperforming and needs to buck up his ideas, yet every time I see him play through the middle, our entire attack looks completely different - more fluidity, better tempo etc.
It is unfortunately evident that Shinji is simply not as effective on the left, and his performances show that. The thing I don't understand is why everyone assumes that if someone can play as an attacking midfielder, they must also automatically be able to play as a winger? Kagawa is obviously wasted out wide, I would sooner see Januzaj or even Rooney out on the left if it meant Kagawa playing centrally.
At the end of the day though, I think we just want a fluid front four with Rooney, Kagawa and Januzaj - on the right ideally I would like to see Nani but he needs to start earning his place.
Failing that we could even look at a Christmas tree formation with Rooney spearheading, Kagawa and Januzaj behind him and then a midfield three;
----------------Rooney
--------Kagawa ---- Januzaj
---Cleverley* - Carrick - Fletcher*
*For a more attacking lineup we could even play the likes of Young or Valencia instead of Cleverley and Fletcher.
Much better everytime he plays as a Number 10? Have you not watched us this year?
I feel like everyone who is bigging up dropping Welbeck and moving Rooney out of his position this year in favour of Kagawa are literally doing so ignoring every bit of evidence we've seen this season.
I would play him down the middle with Rooney and Welbeck out wide. With Kagawa in the middle we had a much more compact midfield unit which Swansea found much harder to play through and we're going to need that against Chelsea. Welbeck has had some great games from out wide which a lot of people have forgotten just because it's associated with his poor goal return, but with the confidence he has now he'll be burying some of the chances he missed last year from that position. He was MOTM v Chelsea from the wing when he was on loan at Sunderland.
I would ask you the same question.
Yes, whenever Kagawa has played centrally I think he has done well.
I saw another post earlier though which summed up Kagawa very well - he is a multiplier. When the team is doing well, he can take us from 7/10 to 9/10, however when the overall team performance isn't any good, he looks anonymous. There is no right or wrong as far as I am concerned with this, as you cannot have a team full of Ronaldo's who will try to win the game by themselves. But Shinji is not a primary creator imo, Dortmund always had other players who were also creating chances, and Kagawa added to that very effectively.
Either way though I hope he never plays out wide for us again. I would rather him stay on the bench and give the gametime to Nani or someone else. He needs to play in the middle with some creative players around him. Again, a front three of Kagawa, Rooney and Januzaj I could see being very effective, an in-form Nani would be the perfect addition too.
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