He was our second best player in the first half and best attacking player overall. He looked confident in areas he usually struggles in. Was he injured? It's disappointing to see him go off when he was one of our better players, and it's no surprise that we decided to play in a low block for the rest of the game.
Shinji Kagawa
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I don't know I'm biased coz I like the guy, but can someone explain why he was subbed? I honestly thought he was having a good game. Was a bit surprised.
He seemed to be tiring and I think Moyes brought Valencia on for defensive reasons. Worked great.
He was the best attacking player but you just know he would sub him for the sake of it. Huge mistake
Should never have come off. Seems to the be the fall guy if things aren't quite working.
Played really well and seemed up for the game. Great 1st half but he faded in the 2nd half. He needs to boss the game for 90mins before people will believe he's good enough
Like he did against Leverkusen and Sociedad? Or against Norwich, West Ham, Aston Villa and Everton last season?
Also, it's hard to boss a game for 90 minutes when you get subbed off despite playing well. This is far from being the first time Moyes does this. In fact, he seems to have a specific problem with Kagawa. He just doesn't seem to rate him at all.
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He definitely dipped slightly, but he still shouldn't have come off.
I thought in the first half he played some nice stuff and I liked his movement with Welbeck. Strange decision on the face of it to sub him off.
I thought in the first half he played some nice stuff and I liked his movement with Welbeck. Strange decision on the face of it to sub him off.
We finally agree on something(we just disagreed on Nani though).
I am not sure I understand Moyes' subs, it's pretty much identical decision like earlier in the season when he was one of our better players vs WBA, IIRC, and he subbed him off at half time. Weird.
Surprised he came off, he was playing really well, and making chances. Him and Januzaj were our only 2 players with any technical ability and both playing well together. We would have won the game if he stayed on and we took off Welbeck or Hernandez. He should go though, Moyes clearly doesn't rate him and he should go for his own good and become a class player in a team more suited to him.
Whoscored is your friend, but you don't need them if you watched the first half.
The sub in the WBA game was actually worse than the sub today, so it goes to show that Moyes is rather mental.
It all boils down to his preferences, really. He likes to keep things safe and predictable, and grind out results from there. That's what he did with Everton, and that's what he's been trying to do with us. In terms of points collected, this season is pretty much identical to his past seasons with Everton. Smalltime philosophies all around.
He wasn't doing anything in the second half. We were better when Valencia came on.
Would he play with Mata or
Does rate him? Thats because he aint no leon osman ....even if he tried.
Did you even watch the game?
Sure, Sunderland was starting to get more possession in the beginning of the second half, but it wasn't before Kagawa went off that they started to completely run over us. Apart from a magical Januzaj moment or two, our level dropped significantly in the last third of the game(+ extra time). We actually deserved to lose.
We were completely overwhelmed when Valencia came on.
He's been well below average for the last 18 months. Today was no different.
Valencia did okay when he came on, it was a good decision to bring him on, his pace created problems on the counter and Sunderland had to push on. The mistake was taking Kagawa off and leaving Hernandez, who had failed to control anything all evening, on, that was crazy.Did you even watch the game?
Sure, Sunderland was starting to get more possession in the beginning of the second half, but it wasn't before Kagawa went off that they started to completely run over us. Apart from a magical Januzaj moment or two, our level dropped significantly in the last third of the game(+ extra time). We actually deserved to lose.
Go look at the man of the match thread. You're biased to the point you aren't watching the game clearly.
Yeah, I'm not saying it was a mistake to take Valencia on. It was a mistake to take our best attacking player off, though.
I agree that Hernandez would have been a better choice to take off. Welbeck even better. I barely saw him out there.
And we weren't before that?
Nice to see the only player not needing 5 touches to control a football getting subbed off after a decent performance
Yeah, I agreed with Valencia coming on but it was shocking to take off Shinji, he was probably our best attacking player in the first half, him and Januzaj were linking up really well and making chances. We lost all control once he came off and since that moment we were completely under pressure, and going forward relied on Januzaj to do everything. Chicharito and Welbeck were both terrible IMO, the only notable thing Welbeck did all game was miss the net on a peno.
That's possible. I'll try harder next game.
No, we weren't. We started to fade a bit at the beginning of the second half but once Welbeck went into the 10 position, we were completely pushed back. No one to retain possession and it showed.
He was neat and tidy with a couple of ideas and Carrick and Fletcher seemed to fall to pieces without having another player coming central. Still underwhelming but not bad
Is it me or does it seem the mods/caf-staff have all agreed to fall into a certain band of the spectrum when it comes to Kagawa.
They are pack animals.
Valencia in was the right sub. We were getting pummeled on the right flank by Borini and Alonso. But Moyes chose the wrong player to take out, in my opinion. Kagawa was in the centre of many good moves the team had. Taking him out placed more burden on Januzaj who started getting a little erratic after that. Kagawa would not have offered the kind of individual brilliance Januzaj is capable of but he'd make our play more cohesive.
He was invisible when he moved to the number 10 position. He looked okay on the left, but still not good enough imo - nor was anyone else to be fair, but it's becoming a worrying habit for Shinji.
If/When we sign Mata, Kagawa is one of the players who will probably be off.
Fine by me. Mata is a massive upgrade on what Kagawa has given us and he's never showed enough to be a first team regular for United.
Fine by me. Mata is a massive upgrade on what Kagawa has given us and he's never showed enough to be a first team regular for United.
He had a quiet start but got better and looked like our only creative player. To take him off was a horrible decision as first of all Valencia is just poor and 2nd, there were other players on the pitch who were so much worse.
i'm not sure he has the pace, strength or bravery to really succeed in this league. He's not been a total flop but he's been no more than average for the most part imo
Should Mata come in I would happily offer him as a makeweight in any deal for a number of dortmund players
Should Mata come in I would happily offer him as a makeweight in any deal for a number of dortmund players
I dont know which game people were watching. Kagawa was by far our best player offensively. Some brilliant through balls and an assist if fletch or welbeck would have burried it. The goal came from the resulting corner - so he was the vocal point of our game. I can see why Moyes took him off though as Valencia brings more strenght and he thought we have to make it tight, but imo it was the wrong move. We should have gone for the second - the united way.
I just think Moyes doesn't like him that much, or rate him...don't think he's ever said anything particularly positive about him..
Has anyone discuss/give opinion on the future of Kagawa if we indeed get Mata? Will Mata slots into Kagawa's territory (i.e. Attacking Mid/Attacking Mid Left)?
EDIT: I see a few already in here.
I think he'll be off. Shame. For me.
I hope we can get some money for him. 25mil? Too much? He's still a very good player and will be great for Asian market.
EDIT: I see a few already in here.
I think he'll be off. Shame. For me.
I hope we can get some money for him. 25mil? Too much? He's still a very good player and will be great for Asian market.
Lets hope we can use him as a swap deal with Dortmunt.
It could make or break his career here. Having a more authoritative creator in the team might allow him to get by in just keeping it simple and feeding him the ball. It seems that's where he flourished at Dortmund, according to what the Dortmund fans have written on here.
Maybe he's just been a bit of a flop, it happens. I don't remember anyone blaming the manager/tactics when Forlan and Veron were here.
Actually both Forlan and Veron contributed more than Kagawa has so far, if they were considered flops that says a lot.
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