Shinji Kagawa

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Rossa said:
I agree and I forgive - should I forgive if I agreed in the first place?
Imo, Rooney's technique and passing is great for a striker and works even as a central midfielder, but as a No 10, then he is too sloppy for me. Kagawa and Mata are better suited to a fast flowing game than Rooney, imo of course.
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Couldn't agree more
 
Also agree with @Rossa in regards to Rooney being suited infinitely more to the striker position. He isn't quick enough for the #10 role, and this season he relies too heavily on playing the ball out to the wings.
 
Blue always red said:
Also agree with @Rossa in regards to Rooney being suited infinitely more to the striker position. He isn't quick enough for the #10 role, and this season he relies too heavily on playing the ball out to the wings.
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Well, he wants to score goals, so of course he's going to pass it out to the wings to give himself time to make a run into the box.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
Well, he wants to score goals, so of course he's going to pass it out to the wings to give himself time to make a run into the box.
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Is that necessarily the best way for him to score goals though this season especially? With our crosses being so poor this season, I would have assumed that he has grown tired of the ball sailing harmlessly over him and opted for another strategy. The big problem is, as you said, he wants to score goals and because neither him or Van Persie can be dropped our team suffers from having two similar players in the most advanced roles. It means that we have a gaping hole between midfield and attack, which is remedied only when Rooney dropping deep. However, he's not going to score there, so he then plays the ball out wide and makes a run into the box hoping to get on the end of it.
 
One more problem we're seeing (for Kagawa anyway) is that since Mata has come in Moyes has always looked to pick someone who is going to stay wider on the opposite wing. And Mata is obviously the chosen one for the player who is going to look to come into the middle and keep the ball.

I can completely understand the thinking, in fact I agree that if one of your wingers is coming off his line and looking to get involved in the middle you rarely want your other winger doing the same clustering the midfield and making it impossible to find openings. However, is it just me who thinks its quite simple to say "Hey Shinji, Juan is going to come into the middle from the right so I want you to stay wide on the left until we get into a position to put the ball into the box. Then I want you to dart into the box and try and score" ?

If wingers are picked for United purely because they will spend a lot of the time standing still in a wide position then sign me up. I can do that. And it should be a really simple conversation with the likes of Kagawa and Nani to ask them to do that a bit more.
 
Ekeke said:
One more problem we're seeing (for Kagawa anyway) is that since Mata has come in Moyes has always looked to pick someone who is going to stay wider on the opposite wing. And Mata is obviously the chosen one for the player who is going to look to come into the middle and keep the ball.

I can completely understand the thinking, in fact I agree that if one of your wingers is coming off his line and looking to get involved in the middle you rarely want your other winger doing the same clustering the midfield and making it impossible to find openings. However, is it just me who thinks its quite simple to say "Hey Shinji, Juan is going to come into the middle from the right so I want you to stay wide on the left until we get into a position to put the ball into the box. Then I want you to dart into the box and try and score" ?

If wingers are picked for United purely because they will spend a lot of the time standing still in a wide position then sign me up. I can do that. And it should be a really simple conversation with the likes of Kagawa and Nani to ask them to do that a bit more.
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Kagawa's issue is that we almost exclusively play Rooney in the hole. We haven't even entertained the idea of doing something different since he came here so he cannot play to his ability.

I reckon we didn't expect van Persie to come here when we moved for Kagawa. It would have been a different story if van Persie hadn't come and Kagawa would be a regular behind Rooney, probably thriving in the role. As things stand there is no use for him in this team because it is not suited to wide players who are effectively attacking midfielders rather than wingers.
 
Sarni said:
Kagawa's issue is that we almost exclusively play Rooney in the hole. We haven't even entertained the idea of doing something different since he came here so he cannot play to his ability.

I reckon we didn't expect van Persie to come here when we moved for Kagawa. It would have been a different story if van Persie hadn't come and Kagawa would be a regular behind Rooney, probably thriving in the role. As things stand there is no use for him in this team because it is not suited to wide players who are effectively attacking midfielders rather than wingers.
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I felt that way before but Kagawa has now had a bunch of matches in the hole and a couple were good. At least half of them he didnt do enough though and when you're competing with Rooney thats not going to be good enough to cement your place. There is no reason whatsoever why Kagawa can't play a role like Pienaar at Everton from that wide role. The only difference is that Shinji still seems so lightweight, he needs to learn to hold off the challenges in this league
 
Ekeke said:
I felt that way before but Kagawa has now had a bunch of matches in the hole and a couple were good. At least half of them he didnt do enough though and when you're competing with Rooney thats not going to be good enough to cement your place. There is no reason whatsoever why Kagawa can't play a role like Pienaar at Everton from that wide role. The only difference is that Shinji still seems so lightweight, he needs to learn to hold off the challenges in this league
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Well he's not as good as Rooney so obviously there is no way he will displace him to have a run of games sufficient to get the grip of things.

He could perform that role off the left or right but he has not shown enough there. No one except Januzaj has been good enough out wide this season to be fair though so there is no reason why he couldn't get an extended run.
 


I mean really, is there any reason why Kagawa cant get that extra strength/power in his game to be a bit more resilliant with the ball at his feet like Pienaar?
 
Sarni said:
Well he's not as good as Rooney so obviously there is no way he will displace him to have a run of games sufficient to get the grip of things.

He could perform that role off the left or right but he has not shown enough there. No one except Januzaj has been good enough out wide this season to be fair though so there is no reason why he couldn't get an extended run.
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That's probably my biggest issue with this whole Kagawa thing. Nobody is claiming that Kagawa has played really well. He's been decent most times when he's played, but he's never been really crap either, like Valencia and Young to a lesser extent have been plenty of times. He's still had his moments, and created plenty of chances. I think a reason why most people would rather see him on the pitch and give him chances, is because he has the potential to be a fantastic footballer and has shown before how good he is or can be. Also him succeeding would obviously mean that we are playing great, exciting football as well, whereas with Valencia and Young its just more crosses.
Our other wingers have all been pretty shit for the most part yet Moyes kept giving them all runs in the team to try and pick up form. All of them except Nani and Kagawa. Give either of those two extended runs in the team and I'm pretty confident that they'd perform a lot better, simply because they are both much better players then Valencia or Young.
 
Sarni said:
Well he's not as good as Rooney so obviously there is no way he will displace him to have a run of games sufficient to get the grip of things.

He could perform that role off the left or right but he has not shown enough there. No one except Januzaj has been good enough out wide this season to be fair though so there is no reason why he couldn't get an extended run.
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Sometimes balance in the team is more important than an individual player's performance.
 
Moyes is making a huge mistake ... but with Mata it was quite clear that he doesn't rate him
 
Can't believe Moyes won't play him. Doesn't even make the bench, I mean come on, how is Fellaini on the bench ahead of Kagawa?
 
Gutted.

It'll be a shame to see him go, even if we use him as a bargaining chip with Dortmund.
 
Wasnt his last game for us the one vs Swansea where he did very well after being moved infield?

It really is sad to see a player like him frozen out totally.
 
Shocking. Mad Winger might be a bit obsessed but Kagawa deserves a chance. Not even on the bench which is just shocking.
 
Terrible man management really. Of all the things Moyes has messed up this season, this has to be the worst. He has a potentially fantastic player here and not only is he not giving him chances, he's ruining him and diminishing his value. You just know that next season he'll have a fantastic season and then people (Moyes) will say stuff like why couldn't he reproduce that in the premier league, when the answer is very clear that Moyes never gave him a proper chance. It was always an occasional start and sort of like unless you score a hattrick, then you're coming off at half or in the 60th minute, no matter how well you play.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Wasnt his last game for us the one vs Swansea where he did very well after being moved infield?

It really is sad to see a player like him frozen out totally.
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He started the semi final vs Sunderland, and played for 50 minutes or so where we were on top, he made a few chances and was our best player. Then Moyesie took him off of course since he was making chances through the middle and doing give and go's instead of running to the byline, and put on Valencia, and we lost all control.
 
bosnian_red said:
He started the semi final vs Sunderland, and played for 50 minutes or so where we were on top, he made a few chances and was our best player. Then Moyesie took him off of course since he was making chances through the middle and doing give and go's instead of running to the byline, and put on Valencia, and we lost all control.
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Oh yes, I remember that. He was involved in most of our good play that night through the middle. Lots of balls through the defence or over the top that just didnt get to the strikers.

Its a pity how things have turned out for him but once we got Mata, it was unlikely that Moyes would be the one to get them all working together.

He'l be gone in the summer. I hope he goes to a good team though, one that suits him because I think he's an absolute top player.
 
Well, I have given up hope he'll be here next season. Moyes clearly talks shit when he says he wants us to play a different way
 
When Moyes' is sacked, I hope by some miracle he has to play whatever team Kagawa is then playing for...and I hope Shinji rips him team to shreds so bad, that all the sponsors abandon that club, they have no money and the club collapses.
 
I don't get the logic. Why buy him, and then buy RVP? What was the point? Why play him out of position? Why? Why can't Rooney and RVP compete for the striker position, Mata/Kagawa for the number 10 position, and Januzaj/Nani/Valencia/Young jockey for the 2 wide positions? Why can't we play players in their proper positions, instead of trying to fit the best players into the team just because, and stick out Kagawa out wide just because, and play Valencia at right back just because, and Rooney in midfield just because? Why?

Can we just sell him already? For his sake? Wrap the signing up before the World Cup, and give him an extended break or something.
 
Sometimes you have to lose a good player in order for the team to improve and be better as a whole. On this occasion I suspect we'll lose a good player and not improve.
 
adexkola said:
I don't get the logic. Why buy him, and then buy RVP? What was the point? Why play him out of position? Why? Why can't Rooney and RVP compete for the striker position, Mata/Kagawa for the number 10 position, and Januzaj/Nani/Valencia/Young jockey for the 2 wide positions? Why can't we play players in their proper positions, instead of trying to fit the best players into the team just because, and stick out Kagawa out wide just because, and play Valencia at right back just because, and Rooney in midfield just because? Why?
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Because RVP is the better striker leading the line for the team. And you can't not pick Rooney. Its probably in his contract
 
Of course he's going to leave. No player in their right mind would stay beyond this season when he knows he could well play for a CL side and be a regular there. Dortmund will gladly take him back.
 
Moyes is an idiot. I'm not allowed to use the f-word any more on here, so "idiot" will suffice.
 
We all moaned when Klopp made that quip about Kagawa slogging it out on the wing. I understand his sentiment now.

Watch Mata be shoehorned into a similar role, reducing his effectiveness. Just because RVP and Rooney have to play where they want.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Oh yes, I remember that. He was involved in most of our good play that night through the middle. Lots of balls through the defence or over the top that just didnt get to the strikers.

Its a pity how things have turned out for him but once we got Mata, it was unlikely that Moyes would be the one to get them all working together.

He'l be gone in the summer. I hope he goes to a good team though, one that suits him because I think he's an absolute top player.
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It's not even that they didn't reach the attackers. Fletcher hit the post from one of his crosses, amongst other chances. He's just been incredibly unlucky not to have any assists this season because he's set up more sitters then anyone. Just look at the video above!
 
It is an insult to the player that the club didn't facilitate a January loan.

Thanks for everything Shinji, however Fergie's retirement has impacted upon you in particular.
 
I really don't see the problem with forcing RVP and Rooney to pick one spot.

In 2006 RVN was probably our best striker. Yet we shunted him out and made Rooney play behind Saha, in a balanced system. Lo and behold, it worked. You don't shoehorn all the best players into one side and expect greatness. Look at the origina Galaticos in Madrid. All that talent, skill and money. They kick Makelele out and don't win another La Liga or Champions League until 2007.
 
I feel for Kagawa. He's just wasting his career here. There's a potential world class player somewhere in there, but we'll never get to see him. At least not in a Man United shirt.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's not even that they didn't reach the attackers. Fletcher hit the post from one of his crosses, amongst other chances. He's just been incredibly unlucky not to have any assists this season because he's set up more sitters then anyone. Just look at the video above!
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Which brings up a question. Should a manager actually have to look at the assists chart to decide who to pick and who not to?

I actually dont want him to go back to Dortmund. I want a good PL club to come in for him and him to do great there to stop all this bullshit about him being too weak for the prem. He'd be great at Arsenal but they are rivals and also they dont need him. Everton? Think he'l be great for them under Martinez. He's just so obviously a good player that its really irritating to see him frozen out like this.
 
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