Shinji Kagawa

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm still convinced he can be a great player for us. The ability is clearly there.

My hope is that we feck Moyes off and bring in a manager who can appreciate and use Kagawa effectively. Though I fear he'll be sold if Moyes is gifted another season :(
 
He should just leave. I don't think that he's completely blameless for his performances since he's come, but when you throw a player like him into a team that just wants to get the ball out wide to the most unproductive and uncreative wingers ever, you can see why he'd want to bugger off.
 
Nights said:
It's been pretty much like that for almost every game. Yet people still complain that he doesn't influence the game enough. Pretty hard to influence the game when no-one passes you the ball unless you're on the touchline.

He shows for the ball time and time again in the middle and gets ignored. Notice how it always goes to the wing, even if he's in an acre of space in the centre. And it's not just for Kagawa either. In that game, the same happened to RVP as well, where he'd call the the ball to his feet in the middle, and inevitably it'd be punted to the wing and then a hopeless cross or Young/Valencia would lose it before they even got the cross off. It's like the area between midfield and attack is the Bermuda Triangle and our players have strict instructions never to play the ball in there.

Look at the sequence at 1:20 - Welbeck receives the ball with time to turn and get his head up. Kagawa is in TONS of space in that danger zone where he's thru the midfield but far out enough for the defence to not be able to cover him, a perfect spot to set up a through ball or have a long range ping. Yet Welbeck passes it 5 yards to Young, who's then incapable of getting a cross in and runs into the defender and we lose the ball. Or the sequence at 0:58 where Rio had a clear window to get a quick pass off. Instead he dawdles and Shinji has to run back virtually into our own half to collect it off him, yet still with a simple give and go with Carrick, is able to create space and get the ball to Evra with the defense backpedling.
Click to expand...
I think the issue is that passing out wide is too ingrained in our current players. It's almost as if they automatically look to pass out wide as soon as they touch the ball. If you look at our players and style of play for the past few seasons, we haven't really had players who thrive when surrounded by opposition players like Kagawa, or who runs off the ball to create space. The fact that Ferguson pursued Kagawa/Hazard/Moura in recent years suggests that he was looking to change our style of play. Then in comes Moyes. It's so depressing to see Young looking down at the ball the entire time he has the ball and not up at who's available for a pass. Our wide players are simply not United quality and the sooner we replace them, the better. A lot of the players simply don't want the ball or are hiding (Cleverley especially). The way our players are set up at the moment, they are too far apart for any chance of one-twos, something which Kagawa/Mata thrives at. Instead, because there's huge gaps between defence, midfield and attack, the players have no choice but to hoof the ball.

It still baffles me why Moyes opted for that lineup of Young/Valencia after we played CP with Januzaj/Mata.
 
Kaos said:
I'm still convinced he can be a great player for us. The ability is clearly there.

My hope is that we feck Moyes off and bring in a manager who can appreciate and use Kagawa effectively. Though I fear he'll be sold if Moyes is gifted another season :(
Click to expand...
Totally agree.
 
Some interesting footage of both Kagawa's impressive substitute appearance as well as why he, and the rest of us, must be frustrated with a lot of our play.

 
If Moyes stays for another season we might as well as sell Shinji. Kagawa has no place in a Jurassic offense.
 
walsh said:
Some interesting footage of both Kagawa's impressive substitute appearance as well as why he, and the rest of us, must be frustrated with a lot of our play.

Click to expand...
1:22 is the worst bit, when you consider passing to a player who's marked on the byline over one who isn't marked by anyone 30 yards from goal then something is drastically wrong with our style of play.
 
walsh said:
Some interesting footage of both Kagawa's impressive substitute appearance as well as why he, and the rest of us, must be frustrated with a lot of our play.

Click to expand...


Great footage of Ashely Young only looking at the ball.... desperately trying to make a fluke pass....what does Moyes see in him and Cleverley is truly baffling! And bet your mortgage Young and Cleverley will start in the next home game!
 
The sad thing is that believe it or not, it's still possible to go on a very good run with a

---------Striker---------
Januzaj - Kagawa - Mata
-Valencia-Carrick/Fellaini-

type set up.

Oh, wait. We're out of all the other comps that would have meant enough games to keep players from getting unhappy. Forget it. Carry on, Braveheart.
 
While the message is trying to say is spot on, it's not the best video. Kagawa isn't even a great passing option in some examples and one example where he's ignored leads to our best chance.
 
The Taurean said:
Its mind boggling at times. Now that we are reaching the extremes of being in a back against a wall position, I just hope some life is infused in our game play.
Click to expand...
I was actually excited by the prospect of Saf's successor bringing some new ideas to the table. Ha!
 
hungrywing said:
The sad thing is that believe it or not, it's still possible to go on a very good run with a

---------Striker---------
Januzaj - Kagawa - Mata
-Valencia-Carrick/Fellaini-

type set up.

Oh, wait. We're out of all the other comps that would have meant enough games to keep players from getting unhappy. Forget it. Carry on, Braveheart.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting we play Valencia in CM? I'v heard he plays there for Ecuador but never seen it and just can't even envisage it. His technical ability on the ball is horrible for a speedy winger even let alone a CM.
 
Mel_F said:
The fact that Ferguson pursued Kagawa/Hazard/Moura in recent years suggests that he was looking to change our style of play..
Click to expand...

i think he made that change. Even going back the late 90s we brought in players like Blomquist (very under-rated) to play on the inside left who could come inside and make up the numbers in the middle of the park. Jordi Cruyff (not under-rated) was a similar idea.

In Becks last two seasons for us he spent a lot of time drifting into the middle trying to be a centre mid. (Probably didn't suit him though)

When Ronaldo finally fulfilled his promise we moved to a kind of 4-3-3, often with Park on the other side so that Park could come narrow and make up a three man midfield. Either that or we played a 4-5-1 with Rooney wide left and Ronaldo up front.

Nani played a lot on the left when Tony V was playing well on the right. He probably spent half his time drifting towards the edge of the penalty area.

He also played Wellbeck wide left at times, who would again drift forward and play one two with the deeper striker.

Man United under SAF were like a swiss army knife in the later years. We had lots of ways to beat a team - one striker, two, three, two wingers, three in the middle, one winger one inside left, whatever. The team sheet could often look like 4-4-2 but it was very very fluid and resembled 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 as much as 4-4-2.

Not often seen under David Moyes, though the last 10 minute against Stoke at home when we played a kind of freaky 4-1-2-3 gave me hope at the time.
 
How mental is it when fans on forums and social media see what he has to offer the team and David Moyes, the manager, persists with crap like Young and Valencia? How does he not realise that Kagawa is an intelligent player who can help the team vary their style of play.

It's head-wrecking. Moyes isn't anti-football, there hasn't even been a fecking term invented yet for what the clown is.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
While the message is trying to say is spot on, it's not the best video. Kagawa isn't even a great passing option in some examples and one example where he's ignored leads to our best chance.
Click to expand...
? the rvp chance? i believe he played the ball to smalling
 
REDMULLERS said:
Excellent article, reinforcing much of what has been said above. [credit to livelifeunited blog, ][apologies if previously posted].

http://livelifeunited.com/shinji-kagawa-qualities-intelligence-positional/

Can someone post to Carrington c/o David Moyes.
Click to expand...
Read it. A bit too damning of Rooney. I'm one of those who thought we should have sold Rooney but he's still a great player. Not the archetypal #10 but he produces great numbers, year in and year out. Kagawa is NOT going to fix our attacking issues but I've always felt he was a step in the right direction for progressive football
 
amolbhatia100 said:
While the message is trying to say is spot on, it's not the best video. Kagawa isn't even a great passing option in some examples and one example where he's ignored leads to our best chance.
Click to expand...

You're wrong. He played the pass to Smalling in that move.
 
Whilst the video is depressing (and it's bloody grim), it's proof that a tweak in our play (probably under a new manager in fairness) could transform us.

I wonder if it was Mata would the players still have ignored the pass so much. Kagawa doesn't seem to have the trust of his teammates, which is funny when your teammate is Ashley Young.
 
Hypothetically speaking, if you're Ashley Young/Valencia, etc. and you want to keep getting selected, you might want to not pass the ball to someone who you know is going to make you pale in comparison.
 
Kagawa interview on the Olympiakos game:

"I thought we needed to build some rhythm. We have a lot of goal scoring finishers, but we hadn't been able to build up to a goal scoring opportunity. So I went in thinking I'd like to win back our rhythm, but it was harder than I imagined. The manager just told me to go out and get on the ball. And I was confident I could create opportunities if I could just get on the ball, but the ball wouldn't come my way, as we resorted to many long balls. There were so many more situations where I was available to receive the ball, but... Well, it's done and over, so what can I say.

I thought I might get an outing today. It's vexing that I couldn't contribute results, but I have to carry on day by day. My given situation isn't going to dramatically change, so I'll just keep plugging away. Whatever the situation, you've got to keep on trudging. I'm not taking it negatively. I get more freedom in the CL anyway(as opposed to league), and my abilities are more useful (in the CL). We still have the return leg. I've got a good 'image' in my mind of what we need to do to win the return leg, and we definitely have a shot at turning this around at home, so I'll prepare for that."
Click to expand...

Just depressing...
 
Shane88 said:
How mental is it when fans on forums and social media see what he has to offer the team and David Moyes, the manager, persists with crap like Young and Valencia? How does he not realise that Kagawa is an intelligent player who can help the team vary their style of play.

It's head-wrecking. Moyes isn't anti-football, there hasn't even been a fecking term invented yet for what the clown is.
Click to expand...

I believe Hodgson's tenure has enlightened me a bit on the inscrutinable logics of fearful managers.

Kagawa floats. That's not how to keep a structured and disciplined midfield. It doesn't even matter if your wingers aren't that great at getting stuck in. But they sure as hell need to keep their positions and make the right runs defensively. Someone could break on the counter and leave you exposed with that sort of stuff.
 
Bape said:
"I thought we needed to build some rhythm. We have a lot of goal scoring finishers, but we hadn't been able to build up to a goal scoring opportunity. So I went in thinking I'd like to win back our rhythm, but it was harder than I imagined. The manager just told me to go out and get on the ball. And I was confident I could create opportunities if I could just get on the ball, but the ball wouldn't come my way, as we resorted to many long balls. There were so many more situations where I was available to receive the ball, but... Well, it's done and over, so what can I say.

I thought I might get an outing today. It's vexing that I couldn't contribute results, but I have to carry on day by day. My given situation isn't going to dramatically change, so I'll just keep plugging away. Whatever the situation, you've got to keep on trudging. I'm not taking it negatively. I get more freedom in the CL anyway(as opposed to league), and my abilities are more useful (in the CL). We still have the return leg. I've got a good 'image' in my mind of what we need to do to win the return leg, and we definitely have a shot at turning this around at home, so I'll prepare for that."
Click to expand...

Poor Shinji. :(:(
 
I can understand managing his minutes in the league where he's been poor holding onto the ball, not yet strong enough to withstand a challenge. But not starting him in Europe is crazy, as he says he's performed well with more space & the added protection of referees.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.