Yeah, pretty much why a few of us are always desperate for Nani to pick up form and get games. He showed during those 2 years before he went on his run of injuries that he can be a world class winger, he just needs time to pick up form and get confidence back. He's capable of playing in the middle, out wide, drifting in, and is technically excellent and works very well with 1 touch passing. He makes good runs in behind the defence and you can't even say he doesn't work hard defensively.
Shinji Kagawa
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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we know that city will choke the midfield and they like to have their strikers peel off into wide areas to offer quick outlets to counterattack. if it's not their strikers doing it, at least one of nasri, navas and silva is. akash said we shouldn let the other team dictate our tactics. of course not. but at the same time, it's important you prepare the team in a way to deal with these well-known strategies otherwise, we're just needlessly allowing ourselves to be exploited. with welbeck and kagawa drifting in, good teams would immediately target the flanks.
while the fbs still offer width, if we have welbeck and kagawa already drifted in, where's the advantage in that? imo, if welbeck and kagawa are to play i would rather have welbeck stick more to the wing and let kagwa drift more. but in terms of balance, i'm not sure of the best answer because of what you say about young/valencia. if nani were both fit and had good match sharpness, it'd be a no brainer but this will be an issue for moyes. it's easy saying "let's go out all attack" but when the opposition blow you away, people say we should have been less gung-ho.
Pretty sure that City will play Navas against us. Would bet money on it infact.
Still, I'd love Kagawa to start - pretty sure he won't though.
Still, I'd love Kagawa to start - pretty sure he won't though.
under pellegrini, man city have struck a good balance of using width and overloading the middle. it doesn't matter who is playing where from when i've watched them this season. plus he instructs the strikers to on occasion peel into the wide areas in the event to ensure numbers arent overloaded in the middle.
for me, i would love to start welbeck and kagawa together and it'd be easy to say our season is lost and we might as well attack. but since we know city have the potential to line the score up, it's important to make sure we are balanced on both fronts.
if moyes has a tactical scheme to keep the team balanced while welbeck,kagawa, rooney and mata are our attacking quartet then beautiful. i'm just not sure i see one at this point
here is kagawa's pass to hernandez from yesterday http://gfycat.com/ColorfulInsignificantBear
a couple people said kagawa lacked end product yesterday but i'd bet they wouldn be saying that if hernandez finished the chance. he can take more shots but if youre playing a probing pass and your teammate does not finish the chance you have provided, what can you do?
a couple people said kagawa lacked end product yesterday but i'd bet they wouldn be saying that if hernandez finished the chance. he can take more shots but if youre playing a probing pass and your teammate does not finish the chance you have provided, what can you do?
We need to get back to the basics of playing decent football. That starts with picking Kagawa, Mata and Rooney every game we can.
here is kagawa's pass to hernandez from yesterday http://gfycat.com/ColorfulInsignificantBear
a couple people said kagawa lacked end product yesterday but i'd bet they wouldn be saying that if hernandez finished the chance. he can take more shots but if youre playing a probing pass and your teammate does not finish the chance you have provided, what can you do?
Maybe not overhit the pass in the first place?
I thought Kagawa was great yesterday. Not fussed about end product. On another day he could have scored or created two or three goals. It was an influential performance regardless. Exactly what we've been looking for. Made a mockery of the idea that he has to be played centrally to be effective.
It was the last minute or two of injury time when Wham! had all but stopped playing and 7 of their side were within touching distance of each other. It was nice vision, but not all that special under the circumstances. It would have been good if he'd done that whilst the match was still a contest.
Yeah, it's always been the type of system he's played in, and the speed at which we pass the ball around mainly rather then where he plays. Also helps having like minded players around him. No doubt that he improved a lot himself and actively looked to influence proceedings rather then let the game pass him by, which he has been guilty of doing on occasion, but it was a very good performance.Maybe not overhit the pass in the first place?
I thought Kagawa was great yesterday. Not fussed about end product. On another day he could have scored or created two or three goals. It was an influential performance regardless. Exactly what we've been looking for. Made a mockery of the idea that he has to be played centrally to be effective.
indeed. i think it showed how much of a team player kagawa is. the linkup and understanding between kagawa and mata was very goodMaybe not overhit the pass in the first place?
I thought Kagawa was great yesterday. Not fussed about end product. On another day he could have scored or created two or three goals. It was an influential performance regardless. Exactly what we've been looking for. Made a mockery of the idea that he has to be played centrally to be effective.
whether or not it was in injury time, it would still qualify as a good pass, wouldn't it? Just because it's no longer a contest doesnt mean you necessarily have to let up. Otherwise he might as well not have made that pass and just kept possession.
Look at the shape of the back four and midfield. You could have thrown a blanket over 7 of their players. That wouldn't have happened earlier in the game. Not to mention the fact that none of them could arsed to make a challenge.
Don't get me wrong, it was a nice spot but really not that noteworthy given the context.
Don't get me wrong, it was a nice spot but really not that noteworthy given the context.
we dont know this. defensive lapses can happen at any time during the game
An individual can have a lapse. That was an "I don't give a feck" moment from the entire side hoping for a final moment of glory.
Kagawa makes passes like that for Japan nearly every game. Whether they're playing a friendly against a weak Asian nation or Italy in the Confederations Cup, he'll pull this shit off, at any stage of the game.
People always compliment Kagawa on his movement, technique and intelligence, which is fine because those are his biggest strengths. But his passing is also really good. It's definitely an underestimated part of his game. His role in the national team is a bit different than the role he's been playing for Dortmund(and us for that matter). His passing skills are therefore more apperent when you watch Japan play on a consistent basis. Understandibly most people don't do this, and thus it gets overlooked.
People always compliment Kagawa on his movement, technique and intelligence, which is fine because those are his biggest strengths. But his passing is also really good. It's definitely an underestimated part of his game. His role in the national team is a bit different than the role he's been playing for Dortmund(and us for that matter). His passing skills are therefore more apperent when you watch Japan play on a consistent basis. Understandibly most people don't do this, and thus it gets overlooked.
Garbage. If Young did it you'd be salivating
Fair dues...I'm not a Young "fan", just like I'm not a Kagawa "fan". I want them both to do well. If somebody made the point that Kagawa was unremittingly shit, I'd disagre. But on individual pieces of plays or the odd game, I'll call it how I see it. I don't rate either Young or Kagawa, fwiw, though both have shown glimpses at United.
Keep twisting yourself into knots trying to explain why Kagawa isn't good. It's not ridiculous to read at all.
The defending there was not Premier League standard. It was hardly pub team standard. If you think that's indicative of the quality that Kagawa can produce, you're missing the wood for the trees.
I'm not a Young "fan", just like I'm not a Kagawa "fan". I want them both to do well. If somebody made the point that Kagawa was unremittingly shit, I'd disagre. But on individual pieces of plays or the odd game, I'll call it how I see it. I don't rate either Young or Kagawa, fwiw, though both have shown glimpses at United.
Yeah thats true. Neither have been completely convincing but I think Kagawa clearly shows more in his game and this week put in the kind of performance he needs to put in more often, creating plenty and being involved. Too often this season he's played, been neat and tidy but hasnt created much of anything.
On the other hand like you said in the Young thread, at least Young put the ball into the 6 yard box. It needed to be defended, it was done poorly and Rooney scored. I didnt like his performance, but that part was decent. Hopefully next time he puts it on a plate for our striker instead though
here is kagawa's pass to hernandez from yesterday http://gfycat.com/ColorfulInsignificantBear
a couple people said kagawa lacked end product yesterday but i'd bet they wouldn be saying that if hernandez finished the chance. he can take more shots but if youre playing a probing pass and your teammate does not finish the chance you have provided, what can you do?
I keep watching this and it seems that both Hernandez and the goalkeeper are trying to do outdo each other in levels of retardation.
Himself and Mata seem to naturally gel and we already knew that he had a good understanding with Rooney too. I seriously think that he should get another start vs City and we might see some of continuity from the trio.
Kagawa worked really well in the counter-attacking setup that we employed against West Ham. It really seems to suit him.
As well as this, he also played well when we weren't on the break. He combined excellently with Fletcher, Fellaini, Mata, and Rooney, and he always provided Mata with an option whenever Mata received the ball in the hole.
Our players played at closer distances to each other against West Ham and didn't just get as far away as possible. This suited Kagawa really well, and I think his style of play is much more suited to a more fluid and free system rather than the rigid, stretched system we have played for much of this season.
As well as this, he also played well when we weren't on the break. He combined excellently with Fletcher, Fellaini, Mata, and Rooney, and he always provided Mata with an option whenever Mata received the ball in the hole.
Our players played at closer distances to each other against West Ham and didn't just get as far away as possible. This suited Kagawa really well, and I think his style of play is much more suited to a more fluid and free system rather than the rigid, stretched system we have played for much of this season.
He had quite a unique role in Dortmund where he would be a sort of link between counter-attack and possession football. They are primarily a counter-attacking team but with him they found a good balance that they might not have found since Kagawa left.
Kagawa has Tiki-taka possession football nailed down beautifully as his natural style and the high-pressing defense that Dortmund uses. Mata of course plays for Spain and there he has performed the high-press and tiki-taka as well even if he has mainly done it from a RAM position at the bigger games.
But still, Mata already has 6~years of training in tiki-taka and the high press.
I think Kagawa has taken another step though in his ability to control the tempo since he came to United. He has to force the other players to start playing quicker passing, and it has taught him to be more imposing.
I think this is one of the reasons Dortmund aren't doing as well as they used to with Kagawa/Gotze in their team. They don't have the player who can keep the ball well, in the middle, and keep play ticking (other than Gundogan, who's very injury-prone) when the counter-attack isn't available. This should be perfect for us as we now have a player who can fit into two different styles and allow us to change the way we play when appropriate (i.e. impose upon the opposition or counter-attack them).
I haven't noticed this. I'll have to observe him more carefully, in the future.
@mazhar13 I've been looking through the thread but ended up finding the clip deleted.
It is the build-up to the 0-3 goal from Welbeck against WBA is a great example of it. He has primarily always been a player who does the difficult plays and often further up the pitch most often with his eyes towards goal and never his back.
At United he has added the quality to pass a simple pass, request the ball back as he moves in to space, pass another player and request the ball again. This way he controls the tempo and affects it positively.
He also has the ability to do the exact opposite by playing it cool in a situation that would naturally stress almost all other players. But that is nothing new though but rather his natural ability and maybe most prominent feature.
If he just gets more confident I believe he will have a very important role in the silent at controlling the tempo. Calm us down when we are stressed, but also be the one to raise the tempo when we are too calm.
It is the build-up to the 0-3 goal from Welbeck against WBA is a great example of it. He has primarily always been a player who does the difficult plays and often further up the pitch most often with his eyes towards goal and never his back.
At United he has added the quality to pass a simple pass, request the ball back as he moves in to space, pass another player and request the ball again. This way he controls the tempo and affects it positively.
He also has the ability to do the exact opposite by playing it cool in a situation that would naturally stress almost all other players. But that is nothing new though but rather his natural ability and maybe most prominent feature.
If he just gets more confident I believe he will have a very important role in the silent at controlling the tempo. Calm us down when we are stressed, but also be the one to raise the tempo when we are too calm.
I see what you mean, and I think those are signs that he's becoming more imposing to his teammates and more able to direct play. However, with Mata in the team, he won't be the only one to rely on doing this. Plus, he'll have someone who can work well with him like he when he had Gotze at Dortmund.
His latest match also has many moments of Kagawa taking jogs towards his own midfielders or defense to start pushing tempo and add creativity to the build-up.
Yeah, after the signs they showed in their debut it is above expectations. Mata is less prone to fall so deep and is has better dribbling and final-balls. Kagawa has the better control of the tempo though so they complement each other well.
Actually never thought they'd be this good so fast, even if it was obvious they'd like playing together.
You do wonder what moyes sees in training when he hasn't even tried them together ever before. Everyone could see them working together, except moyes and his bunch of clowns.
Team balance, defensive duties and yadda yadda.
And yet the midgets showed how football should be played against a team filled with physical donkeys whose gameplan was to pump it up to their king donkey at every opportunity.
As it turned out, West Ham's tactics actually made Kagawa's life easier from a defensive perspective.
With West Ham determined to punt the ball long at every opportunity Downing and Jarvis were fairly peripheral. If they'd kept it on the deck a bit more we might have seen Buttner and Rafael needing a lot more protection than they got.
Re Mata, the main reason he hasn't been played at 10 before now is obvious and nothing to do with "team balance, defensive duties and yadda yadda".
EDIT: It also helped that Fletcher and Fellaini both did a great job helping out our back four. Again, this isn't something we've seen a lot this season because of our perennial problems in selecting a functioning central midfield.
Because Rooney would cry and probably not have signed a new contract?
Well if you believe his previous comments on the matter he's actually happier as a number 9.
So no, it wasn't Rooney's tears that would have been the major issue.
Think the issue was more Moyes not being ballsy enough to drop one of Rooney/RVP or play them out of position on the wing, so he just put Mata there. Don't think Rooney has any problems playing up front, it's just not in midfield or on the wing, which to be fair is perfectly reasonable considering how good he is up front and him being completely wasted out wide or midfield.
Maybe not overhit the pass in the first place?
I thought Kagawa was great yesterday. Not fussed about end product. On another day he could have scored or created two or three goals. It was an influential performance regardless. Exactly what we've been looking for. Made a mockery of the idea that he has to be played centrally to be effective.
Getting same impression from this gif as I've got during the game - Chicharito just might have tried to use his head to either provoke a foul from the keeper who was going mindlessly at him or to knock it in other direction and go through on goal. Easier to say than do of course but I do think he might've done differently there.
Having said that, not fussed about it either. Kagawa and Mata's partnership against WHU was fantastic and I'd absolutely love to see more of it.
Not saying it's all cause of him like, but anytime we've looked good going forward, kagawa was on the pitch. Get him on for cleverley who is just bad.
Another one that can go at the end of the season.
Struggled to have an impact after coming on
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