By definition, most new managers arrive into a team that is not playing well and the previous manager was fired because of it. So they start out as pragmatists because they have to work with what they've got, not what they would like. And nowadays managers get the boot quite quickly if they don't turn things around. We need to wait another season or two to see what ETH is really like as a coach.
Should Ten Hag get the sack if he fails to qualify for the CL?
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By definition, most new managers arrive into a team that is not playing well and the previous manager was fired because of it. So they start out as pragmatists because they have to work with what they've got, not what they would like. And nowadays managers get the boot quite quickly if they don't turn things around. We need to wait another season or two to see what ETH is really like as a coach.
No it isn't.
This is all irrelevant. If Pep were managing us right now would he start Weghorst as a defensive number 10 or in any system? Answer: no. Would any other top manager? No.
And no, the only other option was not Martial. Since Rashford was the one playing up front. Weghorst was playing in Bruno/Sabitzer's best position.
They simply lack quality , mentality doesn't even come into equation .
Better recruitment over a period of time is the only way out , commit to a overall philosophy and make sure manager as well players are recruited accordingly .
I can't even figure out what exactly is Ten Hag and Murtough are trying to build here .
Team filled with Rashford, Fernandes ,Casemiro , Wan Bissaka ,De Gea would never work as possession based team and even as Counter attacking team it's ceiling is fairly low .
One more season for him, if he quits his damn Dutch players obsession!
I believe he should get the second season which would make things clear either way .
Anyway I believe we have bigger issues at hand than Manager at the moment .
Yes. Spot on!
Yep, 7 letters and begins with G.
Pep had the advantage of taking over a club that spent years prepping for his arrival. And he inherited a squad that had league titles under their belt but still went on to spend record amounts topping that squad up. Still only scraped top 4 that year. No cups won.
You had some city fans acting the same way as some folks on here around that time. Changed their tune pretty quickly the following season.
Perfectly valid question. Top 4 seems to be somewhat of a goal the manager has to reach.
Our form is terrible for some time now and it feels like top 4 is slipping away from us. Need Liverpool to drop points.
Scoring 49 goals is shocking, conceding 4 against Brentford is shocking, 6 against City is shocking, 7 against Liverpool is beyond shocking.
Feeling is he will still get the chance to be our manager at the start of the next season. The league cup and some strong perfomances at home might be what saves him.
Our form is terrible for some time now and it feels like top 4 is slipping away from us. Need Liverpool to drop points.
Scoring 49 goals is shocking, conceding 4 against Brentford is shocking, 6 against City is shocking, 7 against Liverpool is beyond shocking.
Feeling is he will still get the chance to be our manager at the start of the next season. The league cup and some strong perfomances at home might be what saves him.
Gerrard?
It would be bitterly disappointing, but I'd still give him another season. I do think there's a good chance that what we're seeing is significantly affected by the amount of games we've played.
No excuses if he can't do it next season though.
No excuses if he can't do it next season though.
And that’s because Weghorst has been utterly useless upfront so he found a new position for him where he deemed him more useful.
So tell me who your representation of Pep’s City’s Weghorst is?
Because ultimately Ten Hag only uses Weghorst because there’s absolutely no one else - not because he particularly think he is his fantastic player.
Ten Hag drops players soon as they have a bad performance - he did this with AWB after Spurs or Aston Villa, dropped Sancho, dropped Antony, dropped Maguire, dropped Martial, dropped Dalot, dropped Shaw, dropped Eriksen etc.
He ultimately uses Weghorst because he has to and it’s how he rotates his squad.
Not one player is the equivalent of Weghorst at City.
And then you act like every manager in the PL is Pep’s quality - acting like Pep is your average coach when he is the teacher for Ten Hag anyway.
In Ten Hag’s first season you compare him to arguably the best manager in the world fighting for a bloody treble this year
feck me. Talk about rubbish.Eddie Howe is the manager currently fighting for 3rd 4th spot with Ten Hag - would he use Weghorst if he had to? Bloody yes.
He wants to apparently buy Mctominay
He was playing behind the striker, in Bruno's position last night! You can't say with a straight face that we have absolutely no one else for that position. Bruno himself was on the fecking pitch, just shifted wide for the sake of, erm, Wout Weghorst. We had Sancho, Garnacho, Martial, Sabitzer, Fred all available - it is absolutely 100% on Ten Hag that he chose a non-footballer over all of them.
If he persists in giving chances to Weghorst his competence and basic common sense will have to be called into question.
No. He has only spent 230m and has less than a year to manage this team. Considering how bad we were last season, I’d give him another season and another 250m worth of signing to make things right.
As for this season, even if we failed to finish top 4, we still won the league cup and were in 2 cup final. That should be enough to earn his stay for another season at the very least.
As for this season, even if we failed to finish top 4, we still won the league cup and were in 2 cup final. That should be enough to earn his stay for another season at the very least.
Because he was trying to get Bruno to create why?
Because Sancho & Antony don’t create chances for a forward. Never have and never will.
So he played Bruno out wide to create chances for Rashford whilst also creating for Haaland’s -oops- Weghorst’s head.
Pep does this all the time with De Bryune - move him out wide to create chances.
So that’s an example again that Weghorst was used only because he is in our squad. Bruno was used exactly how De Bryune was for them and it’s arguably the only similar level quality of player we have in such position.
And that’s because Weghorst has been utterly useless upfront so he found a new position for him where he deemed him more useful.
So tell me who your representation of Pep’s City’s Weghorst is?
Because ultimately Ten Hag only uses Weghorst because there’s absolutely no one else - not because he particularly think he is his fantastic player.
Ten Hag drops players soon as they have a bad performance - he did this with AWB after Spurs or Aston Villa, dropped Sancho, dropped Antony, dropped Maguire, dropped Martial, dropped Dalot, dropped Shaw, dropped Eriksen etc.
He ultimately uses Weghorst because he has to and it’s how he rotates his squad.
Not one player is the equivalent of Weghorst at City.
And then you act like every manager in the PL is Pep’s quality - acting like Pep is your average coach when he is the teacher for Ten Hag anyway.
In Ten Hag’s first season you compare him to arguably the best manager in the world fighting for a bloody treble this year
Eddie Howe is the manager currently fighting for 3rd 4th spot with Ten Hag - would he use Weghorst if he had to? Bloody yes.
He wants to apparently buy Mctominay
This is pure drivel. For the umpteenth time, he's not using Weghorst as a striker, there are about 10 different options in the squad and u21s for the position and role he's playing him in. And none of them are anything like as shit as Weghorst.
This still makes no sense. Sure, move Bruno to the left. It never seems to work but maybe 15th time the charm.
That still doesn't mean we need Weghorst. Why not start Sabitzer or Fred as a third midfielder? Hell, even Sancho. He was rubbish that one time we played him as a no. 10 but hey, maybe it'll be different this time.
There's no justification for putting Weghorst in there because we KNOW he's going to be utterly useless. Because he's not really a footballer. The idea that once Bruno is out of the centre our only option is Wout fecking Weghorst is pure nonsense.
Anyone voting Yes is detached from reality. Ten Hag is not immune to criticism and had definitely made mistakes in this run, but the combination of fatigue, individual mistakes and rotten luck need to be taken into account. Throwing away a manager who's made clear progress with us over one end-of-season drop-off would be madness.
Funny how quickly things change here. He is still by far the most competent manager since Fergie. Overall, he collected more points than Pep did in hos first season. Also, let us not forget what he took over and what was given to him in January.
In this season, with WC, EL, he needed a squad that he does not have. He is not flawless but to want him out is nuts
In this season, with WC, EL, he needed a squad that he does not have. He is not flawless but to want him out is nuts
Only? Supporting this club might make you think this is pocket change for a transfer window but it is still loads of money.
I would normally say yes but this is not a normal season
A- ETH had inherited a mess left by him by some amateur manager who was somehow able to get control over the club and spend 420m in mostly garbage. A big chunk of players bought by Ole are hot garbage on silly salaries and who lack the mentality to play for a big club.
B- He has to work with a DOF who simply can't get anything right. ETH asks for Timber and he ends up with Martinez, he asks for De Jong and he doesn't get it, he asks for Rabiot and he didn't get it. Every signing they get end up being ridiculously overpriced which in turn limit the amount of players he can bring. That means that he starts a season without a striker. Martial is always injured, Ronaldo kick a hissy fit and Greenwood is suspended
C- During his first season the club is put on sale which disrupts his season significantly. In January he asks for a striker and he gets a Championship level one who can make Lukaku look like prime Van Basten.
So excuse me for not wanting him out.
A- ETH had inherited a mess left by him by some amateur manager who was somehow able to get control over the club and spend 420m in mostly garbage. A big chunk of players bought by Ole are hot garbage on silly salaries and who lack the mentality to play for a big club.
B- He has to work with a DOF who simply can't get anything right. ETH asks for Timber and he ends up with Martinez, he asks for De Jong and he doesn't get it, he asks for Rabiot and he didn't get it. Every signing they get end up being ridiculously overpriced which in turn limit the amount of players he can bring. That means that he starts a season without a striker. Martial is always injured, Ronaldo kick a hissy fit and Greenwood is suspended
C- During his first season the club is put on sale which disrupts his season significantly. In January he asks for a striker and he gets a Championship level one who can make Lukaku look like prime Van Basten.
So excuse me for not wanting him out.
We have a discussion about sacking one of the few in this club that can take us forward? Madness.
There’re so many layers of problems that ten Hag has to deal with.
1. Lack of quality.
2. Injuries.
3. Fatigue.
4. Players with weak mentality.
5. Playing two times a week for five months. No time to properly prepare, implement his methods and train on details.
6. Losing our first choice striker in the middle of the season without getting a proper replacement.
He can’t publicly trash our best GK after a very disappointing loss even if the answer is obvious. Keeping the moral high is extremely important when we only have a couple of games left.
‘Without our first choice CBs, our first choice LFB, has limited opportunities to rotate our two best midfielders, having limited options in our forward line, having a striker totally without desire and confidence, having our two best forwards sometimes playing out of position to cover our lack of quality, having a GK who can’t control the air space in front of him, can’t use his feet’s and on top of that is making crazy mistakes.
Take Arteta and Arsenal as an good example. (I hate to admit this)
Have trust in the process. You can’t change nine years of miss management in only one season. Give our manager at least three more transfer windows to strengthen our squad with quality and warriors.
Don’t lose faith. When we finally has a natural born leader, similar to Sir Alex when it comes to keeping high standards we must keep him at all cost. We need him more then he needs us, that’s the brutal reality.
There’re so many layers of problems that ten Hag has to deal with.
1. Lack of quality.
2. Injuries.
3. Fatigue.
4. Players with weak mentality.
5. Playing two times a week for five months. No time to properly prepare, implement his methods and train on details.
6. Losing our first choice striker in the middle of the season without getting a proper replacement.
He can’t publicly trash our best GK after a very disappointing loss even if the answer is obvious. Keeping the moral high is extremely important when we only have a couple of games left.
‘Without our first choice CBs, our first choice LFB, has limited opportunities to rotate our two best midfielders, having limited options in our forward line, having a striker totally without desire and confidence, having our two best forwards sometimes playing out of position to cover our lack of quality, having a GK who can’t control the air space in front of him, can’t use his feet’s and on top of that is making crazy mistakes.
Take Arteta and Arsenal as an good example. (I hate to admit this)
Have trust in the process. You can’t change nine years of miss management in only one season. Give our manager at least three more transfer windows to strengthen our squad with quality and warriors.
Don’t lose faith. When we finally has a natural born leader, similar to Sir Alex when it comes to keeping high standards we must keep him at all cost. We need him more then he needs us, that’s the brutal reality.
Right so Kane plays as a CAM.
He bought Weghorst deeper to help him hold the ball and make passes away from the defensive line because he has no ability on the defensive line except pressing and heading which he can do from deeper anyway.
And again, even if he did make mistake - which he did because Weghorst is shit, he used Weghorst because he is United’s only traditional striker with some physical or heading ability and is the 2nd best player we have who naturally plays centrally as a forward anyway.
City has Haaland and Alvarez who are two different styles of strikers used in different ways and at different times and in different positions and sometimes even in the same team. Where? One sometimes playing behind the striker anyway.
What’s our equivalent? Weghorst, Martial are our central strikers whilst our best left winger is being made to play centrally because none of our central players are in any sort of form or arguably have any goalscoring ability.He used Rashford the only player with some finishing ability in our whole squad as the striker because he is the only player that can beat the defensive line in our whole squad, so instead of starting as a LW he starts as a ST doing what? The same bloody thing just playing at a different angle.
Ten Hag ultimately makes a mistake because Weghorst is in his textbook - Pep doesn’t make the mistake because he doesn’t have it in his textbook.
What the problem is not that Weghorst started deep - the problem is Weghorst is shit centrally both as a player & Striker because if he was good centrally in the box scoring goals then we wouldn’t have this conversation.
We talk about this because he is shit with no sort of ability on the ball.
And why does Ten Hag use him? Because he is in his squad and the only physical/heading/pressing forward he has and he thought those tactics were right against West Ham - not that Weghorst was the best player in the world for it.
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I am not saying he should get the sack, but he deserves a lot of criticism. There are managers who have done a lot more with a lot less. But a combination of losing 0-7 and then bottling top-4 will look really bad on his CV.
For me it comes down to this for the current form..
United 57 games this season.
Arsenal 46 games
About same depth in squad. More injuries for us. Ten Hag needs one more season to build.
United 57 games this season.
Arsenal 46 games
About same depth in squad. More injuries for us. Ten Hag needs one more season to build.
Because he thought a physical/ heading forward is how to beat West Ham who are a quite a physical team anyway.
Just because a player starts at number 10 doesn’t mean they play there all game.
Playing Sabitzer or Fred at CAM or even Bruno would be a completely different tactic each to utelising a physical forward in our set up.
If we had a better quality one then they would do better than Weghorst - doesn’t particularly mean the tactic was wrong, he just had a shit player for it.
Again if he had Kane, he would be dropping deep, has heading ability, has hold up play, has the ability to play in Rashford - all the things he wants tactically from yesterday’s set up but all he has is bloody Weghorst at his disposal.
He either goes with the tactic he thinks is best to beat West Ham as he did yesterday or he goes and plays his best possible team no matter who the opposition is.
This is why he has done great in cup competitions so far and even at Ajax in the CL because he changes the tactics to outsniff the opposition- not just build the best team and stick to it 24/7 like Pep does with the quality he has with players like De Bryune, Haaland, Mahrez, Grealish and would be shit anyway in Ten Hag’s first season when he has arguably just had one transfer window & players like Weghorst and Sabitzer were forced on him because he had to loan such players from the glazers wallet rather than actually purchase anyone.
He went with what he thought was the right tactic with the wrong player - a player that is arguably not even his.
Anyway, we lost yesterday’s match down to De Gea’s howler and what happened then? West ham sat back with 34% possesion and got even more physical playing on the counter.
No - he’s still in the black for this season even if the lustre has faded since February. As for next season, it’s difficult to set objectives given the uncertainties surrounding the ownership situation. If United are to move forward (and assuming new ownership), then the following needs to happen:
- significant transfer funds made available
- Ten Hag has input into transfer targets but is not the sole or dominant voice
- a new goal keeper is the top priority along with a striker
- United find a better balance in terms of competing on several fronts (playing full strength teams in the FA Cup was a mistake and the element of complacency in messing up the EL group stage also created problems down the line)
- Ten Hag improves his in-game management (the tendency towards second half no shows cannot be totally down to fatigue)
At this stage, we wait to see how next season is going (again assuming the Glazers are not still stinking out the place and starving the squad of funds). If we are not markedly improving in terms of results and performances by the second half of the season, then serious questions need to be asked.
- significant transfer funds made available
- Ten Hag has input into transfer targets but is not the sole or dominant voice
- a new goal keeper is the top priority along with a striker
- United find a better balance in terms of competing on several fronts (playing full strength teams in the FA Cup was a mistake and the element of complacency in messing up the EL group stage also created problems down the line)
- Ten Hag improves his in-game management (the tendency towards second half no shows cannot be totally down to fatigue)
At this stage, we wait to see how next season is going (again assuming the Glazers are not still stinking out the place and starving the squad of funds). If we are not markedly improving in terms of results and performances by the second half of the season, then serious questions need to be asked.
Had to laugh at that sorry.
Almost everybody was in agreement last summer that this season was about building and improving. If we don’t get top 4 (I still think we will), it’s a shame, but it’s not the end of the world. This is a long process and it was never going to be an instant fix.
I voted yes because I think he's earned the right to have a 2nd season.
But I'm losing faith in some of his decisions. Weghorst is a millstone around the team's neck. And whatever about playing him as a CF "because we have no one else", there is zero justification for playing him as a 10 and shifting our most creative player to the wing, where he's been shown to be almost completely ineffective, just to accommodate him.
Eriksen would be better in the 10 role than Weghorst, at least he could pick out a pass.
And the outlay on Antony may well become the ice berg that sinks Ten Hag if things go tits up again next season. Unless this greedy, visionless show pony starts delivering big, and I mean right f**king quick, then Erik will continue to face more and more questions about his judgement of players. This was not a player foisted on him by an incompetent DoF or a megalomaniac owner, this is a player ETH knew inside-out and back-to-front and got the club to fork out a fortune for.
But I'm losing faith in some of his decisions. Weghorst is a millstone around the team's neck. And whatever about playing him as a CF "because we have no one else", there is zero justification for playing him as a 10 and shifting our most creative player to the wing, where he's been shown to be almost completely ineffective, just to accommodate him.
Eriksen would be better in the 10 role than Weghorst, at least he could pick out a pass.
And the outlay on Antony may well become the ice berg that sinks Ten Hag if things go tits up again next season. Unless this greedy, visionless show pony starts delivering big, and I mean right f**king quick, then Erik will continue to face more and more questions about his judgement of players. This was not a player foisted on him by an incompetent DoF or a megalomaniac owner, this is a player ETH knew inside-out and back-to-front and got the club to fork out a fortune for.
I think i've seen enough to want him here for a longer period.
The amount of games we played, while having a squad that is at least 50% untrustworthy means we were always at risk of running out of steam.
Give him the tools he needs, and let him have a proper go.
The amount of games we played, while having a squad that is at least 50% untrustworthy means we were always at risk of running out of steam.
Give him the tools he needs, and let him have a proper go.
City had 78 points in Pep's first season. We're on 63. They had a goal difference of +41 and we're on +8.
I think he deserves another season. I know it’s not the cool opinion to have, but he’s been hamstrung by a threadbare squad.
Do I want Weghorst up top? No, but it’s not like Martial has set the world alight, and what were his other options? People question the line ups and subs, but frankly we’ve got a handful of decent players, not a starting xi full of them and nowhere near a squad full.
Do I want Weghorst up top? No, but it’s not like Martial has set the world alight, and what were his other options? People question the line ups and subs, but frankly we’ve got a handful of decent players, not a starting xi full of them and nowhere near a squad full.
Sure, it's not the end of the world in the context of, I dunno, a nuclear holocaust, but make no mistake, in a footballing context it's a f**king disaster for this football club.
We can forget about getting Kane or Osimhen without CL football, so God knows where we're going to recruit a half decent CF from. City are not going anywhere, Newcastle will invest heavily, Arsenal have a young squad who will only improve, plus Chelsea and Liverpool are never going to have worse seasons in the league than this one.
Plus we're left with the prospect of Thursday night Europa League football which has been an absolute curse for us for years. If we "qualify" for that wretched competition again I'd rather we play the reserves/youth teams, and if they get papped out in the group stages, so be it. Better that than flogging our squad for most of the season only to be inevitably knocked out by some mid-table Spanish shithouses.
123 votes to sack him his bonkers and to me sums up modern fans and a pot noodle nation in general.
Who on earth would you bring in that would have done better this season, whilst dealing with the Ronaldo tantrum and long injury list, along with Casemiro missing so much through suspension? The squad is paper thin and needs building but it takes time, 1 summer transfer window isn’t enough.
Who on earth would you bring in that would have done better this season, whilst dealing with the Ronaldo tantrum and long injury list, along with Casemiro missing so much through suspension? The squad is paper thin and needs building but it takes time, 1 summer transfer window isn’t enough.
That stat on Ten Hag's points total being better than Pep's didn't look right but it never dawned on me to check if it was true!
Thanks for looking it up, I think it shows people on this forum pull statistics out of their arse!
You have 3 super easy home games left and the 1 away game is Bournemouth, who are already in holiday and are so shit even we beat them.
If he does feck it up at this stage, he should not just be sacked but put in the stocks so Man United fans can throw rotten fruit and veg at him.
If he does feck it up at this stage, he should not just be sacked but put in the stocks so Man United fans can throw rotten fruit and veg at him.
He should be sacked for keep playing that 7ft waste of space!
90m on Antony was shocking. That’s down to ETH. He could have used that money much better!
Of course he should. Just cause he spent more than our previous managers, doesn’t mean that the already low standards should lower even more.