Arse fans would like to think it was just a bad dream
Should Wenger be sacked?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I will say this, though: if the rumours are true that Arsenal are bringing Szczesny back to replace Cech, then they've lost the plot. Best case scenario, they have a bloke in goal who they already conclusively know isn't good enough.
I think you are spot on. Given the financial constraints imposed by their owners, Wenger does a good job getting them top 4 every season.
But he should still be sacked. Why? Because Arsenal is one of the biggest clubs in the country and winning feck all season in, season out, whilst ripping off the fans every year is just not acceptable and yet until he goes, nothing changes. Same old same old, every single year.
Things may very well get much worse when he goes, but if so, that's just part of the rebuilding needed and will make their owners realise how much new investment is needed.
Wenger is like a man in a leaking barn, running around putting buckets under the pouring water. Time has come - in fact is long overdue - to put down the buckets and get up on the roof.
Even the pundits who usually blindly support Wenger are saying he should go end of the season now.
Don't listen to them Arsene - we love you!
Don't listen to them Arsene - we love you!
Painful to watch him in the dugout last night. Felt for him. After 4-1 every time the camera fixed on him I wished they wouldn't.
Please don't go Please don't go
Don't you know that we love you so
WE WANT YOU TO STAY
WE WANT YOU TO STAAAAAAAAAAAY
ARSENE WENGER, WE WANT YOU TO STAY
WE WANT YOU TO STAAAAAAAAAAAY
ARSENE WENGER, WE WANT YOU TO STAY
How bizarre. I loved it.
He's a vile individual with his ridiculous hypocrisy regarding refereeing decisions & offsides etc, constant moaning, petulance and lack of respect. He deserves worse.
In the champions league it appears so. Bayern didn't thrash us under Moyes, Chelsea could beat Barcelona often. Only Arsenal are on the receiving end if these hammerings. I know they would never have beaten Barca 4-0 either. It must be a tactical thing
He's failed in both the transfer market and to create a side that can be difficult to play against. Has to have one or the other. You can fail to buy well and need to rely on half-players like the Ox, Gibbs, Iwobi and Coquelin but then you need a proper system.
Insane to think the young talent that has come out of Ligue 1 and how he's missed out on it. Few saw Mahrez and Kante (stats were there, though) coming, but Arsenal are crying out for a top class winger and Dembele just went to Dortmund, desperate for a DM who can maybe also shade right and cover Bellerin and Fabinho is exactly that and still at Monaco, a great CB to partner Koscielny and Varane went to Madrid. There are other examples, but those really stick out to me.
Where do people think he could do the best job if he doesn't want to retire but does leave this summer? I don't think he's well suited to international management. Too bad at one off game tactics. Maybe director of football for a club with some money who badly needs to look outside England. I don't think he'd want to be the sporting director at Bournemouth, but they could use him and he could mentor Eddie Howe. Marseille generally under-perform, though he might still hate them. Maybe Jardim wlll get a big job after Monaco take down Man City and win Ligue 1 and he could go back there?
Insane to think the young talent that has come out of Ligue 1 and how he's missed out on it. Few saw Mahrez and Kante (stats were there, though) coming, but Arsenal are crying out for a top class winger and Dembele just went to Dortmund, desperate for a DM who can maybe also shade right and cover Bellerin and Fabinho is exactly that and still at Monaco, a great CB to partner Koscielny and Varane went to Madrid. There are other examples, but those really stick out to me.
Where do people think he could do the best job if he doesn't want to retire but does leave this summer? I don't think he's well suited to international management. Too bad at one off game tactics. Maybe director of football for a club with some money who badly needs to look outside England. I don't think he'd want to be the sporting director at Bournemouth, but they could use him and he could mentor Eddie Howe. Marseille generally under-perform, though he might still hate them. Maybe Jardim wlll get a big job after Monaco take down Man City and win Ligue 1 and he could go back there?
Wish people would stop blaming lack of funds/not opening the chequebook. The problem with AW in the past 7 years or so is simply unable to motivate his players to have enough character to win one of the big trophies. He's gone soft, its the opposite of fergie's hair dryer in that players can consistently under-perform in big games and know they will be back in the 1st eleven the next big game.
Ozil sums it up perfectly, a player with immense talent but its almost a certainly that he will shy away in the big games when the pressure is on, because theyve been there so many times and nothing ever changes. Contrast this to at Real Madrid under Jose and he was performing far better; because he knew if he under perfromed he'd be out of the side and probably the club.
People slate Jose for freezing out players for weeks at a time and even publicly criticizing them, but when they come back in they are better and hungrier than ever. Their situation is the culmination of a soft handed manager and players who have got too comfortable.
Ozil sums it up perfectly, a player with immense talent but its almost a certainly that he will shy away in the big games when the pressure is on, because theyve been there so many times and nothing ever changes. Contrast this to at Real Madrid under Jose and he was performing far better; because he knew if he under perfromed he'd be out of the side and probably the club.
People slate Jose for freezing out players for weeks at a time and even publicly criticizing them, but when they come back in they are better and hungrier than ever. Their situation is the culmination of a soft handed manager and players who have got too comfortable.
Why should they sack him, when he finally got them playing like Barcelona?
Back in the day he had the scouting and exclusive knowledge on France but things have changed. Other sides have expanded their scouting network. He did say he "nearly" signed these players though
He doesn't deserve to be sacked so I vote NO.
1. It raises the question: is he the single decision-maker when it comes to recruit?
2.
- Varane is very big mistake IMO. He was 18 years old and played for Lens. Obvious he was a great talent. He moved for 10 millions of euros
- Kanté should have been a smart and cheap acquisition: Marseille and Lyon were extremely interested. It means he had a great reputation before he moved to Leicester.
- Mahrez? You can't blame Wenger because his progress was unpredictable.
- Dembélé? You can't blame Wenger because the competition was extremely tough.
In the early 20O0s, he was in a position to capture all the best French players (promising talents or confirmed players). Now, the competition is tougher than ever. Juventus stole Coman for instance.
3. Monaco would be the perfect place if Jardim left the club. Wenger coached that club in the early 90s.
1. It raises the question: is he the single decision-maker when it comes to recruit?
2.
- Varane is very big mistake IMO. He was 18 years old and played for Lens. Obvious he was a great talent. He moved for 10 millions of euros
- Kanté should have been a smart and cheap acquisition: Marseille and Lyon were extremely interested. It means he had a great reputation before he moved to Leicester.
- Mahrez? You can't blame Wenger because his progress was unpredictable.
- Dembélé? You can't blame Wenger because the competition was extremely tough.
In the early 20O0s, he was in a position to capture all the best French players (promising talents or confirmed players). Now, the competition is tougher than ever. Juventus stole Coman for instance.
3. Monaco would be the perfect place if Jardim left the club. Wenger coached that club in the early 90s.
For making Kieran fecking Gibbs captain, yes, yes he should be sacked.
Exactly.
It's been a shame for him the last few years.
It's amazing reading through Arsenal's transfers for the last ten years - apart from Ozil and Sanchez, it reads like a mid table teams dealings. That's not Wenger's fault - he's basically been patching up a team that doesn't exist anymore for years. Sure, they built a stadium, great achievement keeping everything ticking along during that time, but the amount spent since has been a fraction of what's needed.
It's probably time for him to go - not because he's done/doing anything particularly bad, but because the club needs a jolt. They'd get a top manager in easily - there aren't many more appealing jobs in football - but they need to commit some money.. I don't think there's any risk of Arsenal doing a United - we were being run by half-wits and SAF made a fecking arse of his retirement. SAF was holding an average team together, whereas Wenger is doing what you'd expect with average players.
He'll resign in the summer.
It's amazing reading through Arsenal's transfers for the last ten years - apart from Ozil and Sanchez, it reads like a mid table teams dealings. That's not Wenger's fault - he's basically been patching up a team that doesn't exist anymore for years. Sure, they built a stadium, great achievement keeping everything ticking along during that time, but the amount spent since has been a fraction of what's needed.
It's probably time for him to go - not because he's done/doing anything particularly bad, but because the club needs a jolt. They'd get a top manager in easily - there aren't many more appealing jobs in football - but they need to commit some money.. I don't think there's any risk of Arsenal doing a United - we were being run by half-wits and SAF made a fecking arse of his retirement. SAF was holding an average team together, whereas Wenger is doing what you'd expect with average players.
He'll resign in the summer.
Seconded. In someone elses hands Arsenal could be a lot more dangerous. Or hopefully will fall apart like we did under Moyes, but for that to happen Arsenal would have to probably appoint Alan Pardew.
I still maintain he should have left after the last FA Cup win.
They just lack any fight or aggression. Wenger has 1 game plan and that's to try and outpass the other team. At 1-1 they should have sat back and countered with the pace they have. Instead he had muppets like Ozil strolling along doing nothing, Lahm and Robben had it so easy!
Yeah there was in the 11/12 season. The 6-1 was a decade earlier, if I am not mistaken
shouldn't be sacked but he should leave, its sad for him that he can't bow out the way SAF did and a winner. All that is down to Wenger tho, really is an odd case where he seemed to have the perfect foundation every summer to build a title winning team but instead didn't invest and has come up short every time
what is Einsteins quote, insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different outcome. Seems relevant here.
what is Einsteins quote, insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different outcome. Seems relevant here.
They spent in £96million this summer with few departures, 2015 they spent £101.13m with few departures. They must have money but kept buying little 17million pound players who aren't very good. Could they have not gone for Khedira on a free?
Just wasting money on players that don't enhance their team. This is £60million right there. That may have got them Aubemeyang or Higuain at one stage and finally they would've had a dangerous attack. But nope
Calum Chambers
Southampton £17.20mDanny Welbeck
Man Utd £17.00mGabriel Paulista
Villarreal CF £12.75mMathieu Debuchy
Newcastle £12.75mThat isn't all on Wenger, that's on the owner and chairman. Managers don't deal with contracts and financial side of the club, he gives names of who needs and then the chairman decides weather or not to pursue the player(s). Wenger is too blame on the football side as it is clear he is out of his time because the game has become more tactical now. Even though Wenger does play nice attacking football, there comes a time when your team needs to be more athletic & defensive than stylish & attacking and Wenger just cant get his head round that side of the game. The club as a whole from the owner to the manager have no motivation to change, to invest and strengthen from the previous season and that's why they still hit the same level season after season.
So Wenger has some blame but its not fair to put the whole blame on him from lack of investment into the squad which is the owners and chairman's duty to do so. Football has turned into a business and most players are more interested in moving to clubs that offer more money, its sad to say that but it's a reality that we have to deal with and Arsenal hasnt dealt with that and its costing them dearly to achieve big prizes like the premier league and champions league.
Gunners will be calling for his head now. Then in the 2nd leg, Arsenal will somehow win 2-0 or something and the Arsenal supporters will talk about how they could have progressed if they had played as well in the 1st leg. Arsenal will then win a few games in a row and all the confidence will be back among the fans. There will be this belief that all they need is one top player in a particular position for them to challenge for the title again(it was GK 2 seasons back, DM last season and now striker).
It could go two ways after he leaves. They could get a good manager and it might turn out that with their resources some level of competitiveness can be achieved, on the other hand they might struggle for a few years and not make CL anymore on a regular basis like they have done.
The question is: are they happy with being in CL year in year out without any actual chance of winning it, or any other major trophy for that matter? Because that's what's going to happen if they stick with Wenger, he will not win anything serious for them. On the other hand permanent lack of CL football, which could happen without him, could pull them back a bit in the short term. Long term they'll be better off if they make a quick decision now and just go for a new manager because as a club they have the potential to be big - good, large stadium, plenty of fans, good location.
The question is: are they happy with being in CL year in year out without any actual chance of winning it, or any other major trophy for that matter? Because that's what's going to happen if they stick with Wenger, he will not win anything serious for them. On the other hand permanent lack of CL football, which could happen without him, could pull them back a bit in the short term. Long term they'll be better off if they make a quick decision now and just go for a new manager because as a club they have the potential to be big - good, large stadium, plenty of fans, good location.
I would think that there could be two reasons. Firstly, he might have missed Kante intentionally. I always loathe Wenger for his inflexibility, that is, he plays the same style against different opponents. I remember Wenger freezing out Gilberto Silva, one of the crucial pieces of his Invincible team, when Wenger decided to transition the team to one that plays attractive and low-tempo football. Wenger replaced Gilberto with Denilson and played Denilson and Fabregas in the middle of the pitch. I thought that was the start of his decline and he has been sticking stubbornly to this approach ever since. Even if Kante were to be presented to him, Wenger might have thought that he did not fit into his style.
Secondly, I agree with what @Downcast said - other teams have caught up. Remember when Wenger first came to England, no one else was signing foreign players except for Chelsea. The Premier League was filled with British and Irish players with some Dutch and Scandinavian players. Wenger pioneered the trend of bringing players from big footballing nations. Chelsea bought Italian nationals like Casiraghi and di Matteo, but they were always injured. Chelsea's foreign imports (e.g., Hassellbaink, Zola, Poyet) were not on the same level as Arsenal's (Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Vieria). However, other clubs caught up. Jose's mainly Portuguese imports outshone Wenger's. Later, Benitez's Spanish imports outshone Wenger's as well. Now, almost every EPL clubs are being run by a foreign manager, and Wenger's ability to scout the markets of big footballing nations is no longer a standout ability of his anymore.
They spent in £96million this summer with few departures, 2015 they spent £101.13m with few departures. They must have money but kept buying little 17million pound players who aren't very good. Could they have not gone for Khedira on a free?
Just wasting money on players that don't enhance their team. This is £60million right there. That may have got them Aubemeyang or Higuain at one stage and finally they would've had a dangerous attack. But nope
Calum Chambers
Danny Welbeck
Gabriel Paulista
Mathieu Debuchy
It's not about how much transfer fee but how much the player weekly payment cost. Top players ask for too much which Arsenal owner and chairman are too stingy to pay which force Wenger to look else which resorts Wenger to grab players like Welbeck and Chambers who get between 10,000 or 75,000 a week. The highest paid player is Ozil who gets 140,000 a week. Compared to Manchester United who the likes of Pogba get paid at around 290,000 a week! So its not about the transfer fee but about weekly payment that these top players ask for which results Arsenal looking else because the owner is so stingy!
Wenger will not be sacked - he will stand down and then move up into board level. When this will happen is anyone's guess though but it's looking more and more likely it will be at the end of this season.
Any Arsenal fan wanting him to stay is simply crazy.
I would still like their league position, and Sanchez. We should try to get both.
You should have changed the channel.
No P.L trophy for more than 12 years, and knocked out of last 16 for about 6-7 seasons. He is so lucky he is still in charge maybe if he fails to qualify to the C.L next year he will be out.
Could SAF survived all this time?
Could SAF survived all this time?
Their wage bill is similar so it could be that they have a wage cap on individuals, but will pay a lot of wages across the board. In that case, Arsene needs to exercise his political power inside the club and request that they divert the wages in a way that allows them to compete. The money is there, as you can see as they have 4th highest wage bill. If they lose Sanchez because of this then.........
Last season their wage bull was the same as City's according to some sources.
Premier League Wages by team 2017
2016-17 2015-16
1 Manchester City Players salaries £225m £193.8m
2 Manchester United Player Salaries £220.8m £203 m
3 Chelsea Players Salaries £218m £215.6m
4 Arsenal Players salaries £200.5m £192m
Have said it before, Arsene's time at the club should have been up when, on the back of the 8-2 defeat at Old Trafford, he went and signed: Mertesacker, Andre Santos, Arteta, Benayoun and Park Chu-Young just before the deadline.
How he has managed another six years is beyond me.
How he has managed another six years is beyond me.
So you are saying we should give them a free ride after they capitulate comically from Europe like they've done for.. well, as long as we can remember.
There's a difference between us and them. We've declined, struggled to get back for a couple of years and now seems to be in the right path to recovery.
They've been in this state of comatose for far too long without any sign of progress.
He achieves the bare minimum required every season, it is quite remarkable how he is stuck at that level consistency.
A bad season is 4th and or going out of the CL at group stage whilst a good season is 2nd - 3rd and or a minor trophy.
The money men see him as a safe pair of hand but it kills the fans.
A bad season is 4th and or going out of the CL at group stage whilst a good season is 2nd - 3rd and or a minor trophy.
The money men see him as a safe pair of hand but it kills the fans.
Now you're being silly. When has he ever done any of those?
Is Wenger one of the all time greats?
I think he will go down as a good manager. Probably in the LVG class. Definitely not one of the all time greats.
I think he will go down as a good manager. Probably in the LVG class. Definitely not one of the all time greats.
You're harsh. He's a classy manager who respects everybody.
However, he likes to moan by regularly saying "We, Arsenal, haven't a lot of money to spend so the competition with wealthier clubs is unfair. We have values".
Of course, when it comes to steal young players like Anelka and Flamini who are about to sign their 1st professionnal contract with their very 1st clubs, there is no scruple.
