Should Wenger be sacked?

[FacerTheRed]

Their wage bill is similar so it could be that they have a wage cap on individuals, but will pay a lot of wages across the board. In that case, Arsene needs to exercise his political power inside the club and request that they divert the wages in a way that allows them to compete. The money is there, as you can see as they have 4th highest wage bill. If they lose Sanchez because of this then.........
Last season their wage bull was the same as City's according to some sources.

Premier League Wages by team 2017

2016-17 2015-16
1 Manchester City Players salaries £225m £193.8m
2 Manchester United Player Salaries £220.8m £203 m
3 Chelsea Players Salaries £218m £215.6m
4 Arsenal Players salaries £200.5m £192m

My point exactly that money is there but there is way more in my opinion considering how much there season tickets are, merchandising, sponsorship etc. Arsenal are 5th richest club in the world, higher than Man City and Chelsea. So there is way more money in there pocket than there letting on. Arsene has a part to blame for how Arsenal are today but also part to blame is defiantly down to Kroenke who should be using some of Arsenal's revenue to build a team that can compete consistently throughout the season and bring a manager with a winning mentality and know how of the modern day football. If Wenger was at Manchester United, he would of been sacked years ago because the board expects United to be the best, but Kroenke is happy with Arsenal hitting 4th spot because the money is consistently rolling in so he's not motivated to make a change. Kroenke is Arsenal's lack of motivation to do better, Arsene plays a part of that by steering the ship but Kroenke provides the ship and that boat is continuously leaking. Instead of buying a brand new boat, Kroenke provides Wenger with duct tape and that'll keep them a float.

 

[Jacko21]

Is Wenger one of the all time greats?
I think he will go down as a good manager. Probably in the LVG class. Definitely not one of the all time greats.

Over a decade of successive failure have put paid to the idea that's he 'one of the all time greats.'

And sadly for him, this 'period' as John Cross puts it (10+ years!), has undoubtedly tarnished him and his achievements.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Is Wenger one of the all time greats?
I think he will go down as a good manager. Probably in the LVG class. Definitely not one of the all time greats.

It's difficult to say. I'd argue he was a great manager at his best and I'm sure when he's gone he'll be mostly remembered for his 1997-2005 era and the last 13 years will be largely ignored.

I don't think they can be completely ignored though and it definitely tarnishes his legacy and reputation. So overall probably more a very good manager than a true great. His record in Europe especially hurts his argument for greatness, not just that he's never won the Champions League but that in 20 years he's got close only once. That is so poor.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In the champions league it appears so. Bayern didn't thrash us under Moyes, Chelsea could beat Barcelona often. Only Arsenal are on the receiving end if these hammerings. I know they would never have beaten Barca 4-0 either. It must be a tactical thing

In the PL too. No other big team is as frequently the wrong end of a 3+ goal mauling as Arsenal. They've somehow avoided it so far this season but if they don't change their usual tactics in their upcoming Liverpool game then they'll get yet another spanking.

 

[Stacks]

My point exactly that money is there but there is way more in my opinion considering how much there season tickets are, merchandising, sponsorship etc. Arsenal are 5th richest club in the world, higher than Man City and Chelsea. So there is way more money in there pocket than there letting on. Arsene has a part to blame for how Arsenal are today but also part to blame is defiantly down to Kroenke who should be using some of Arsenal's revenue to build a team that can compete consistently throughout the season and bring a manager with a winning mentality and know how of the modern day football. If Wenger was at Manchester United, he would of been sacked years ago because the board expects United to be the best, but Kroenke is happy with Arsenal hitting 4th spot because the money is consistently rolling in so he's not motivated to make a change. Kroenke is Arsenal's lack of motivation to do better, Arsene plays a part of that by steering the ship but Kroenke provides the ship and that boat is continuously leaking. Instead of buying a brand new boat, Kroenke provides Wenger with duct tape and that'll keep them a float.

Their season ticket prices are double United's and most other top clubs. As you said, if they are 5th richest, they need to start acting like it

 

[OohAahMartial]

One of the Gooners on ArsenalFanTV mentioned the good point that Wenger will leave no good legacy behind for them as Ozil and Sanchez will leave and Iwobi is their only young player with potential. When he goes they will drop like a stone as even a new manager can't change enough in one transfer window to rescue them. And seems most have realised that Kroenke is the real one who needs to go as the acceptance of mediocrity starts there. They need to sack Wenger but that won't be nearly enough. They could do a Leeds here.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Is Wenger one of the all time greats?
I think he will go down as a good manager. Probably in the LVG class. Definitely not one of the all time greats.

I'd put him in the "very good" category rather than "great". Judged by the very highest standards, his best teams missed their opportunities to achieve true greatness (particularly the Champions League in 2004 but also not defending their title in 2002/2003). In any case, he'll be remembered more fondly in a few years, in the same way people now think of Clough in his late 70s pomp rather than the diminished figure of his later years.

 

[Oscie]

Wenger's greatest achievement will have been to run one of the biggest clubs in European football with (sugar daddy power aside) resources second to fewer clubs than you can count on the fingers of one hand in all of Europe, and somehow convince people that finishing above the likes of Newcastle, Fulham, Aston Villa and Everton over the years has been a great, stoic achievement.

It's frankly been a masterful display in deceit and slight of hand that to this day people still talk about Wenger's achievements as if he took over West Brom and finished 2nd, 3rd or 4th every season for the past 10 years. He manages Arsenal ffs. All this beaten-wife syndrome of 'If we sack him we might not get CL football', is nonsense.

 

[AN17]

Have said it before, Arsene's time at the club should have been up when, on the back of the 8-2 defeat at Old Trafford, he went and signed: Mertesacker, Andre Santos, Arteta, Benayoun and Park Chu-Young just before the deadline.

How he has managed another six years is beyond me.

Simply because their owner gives no shit about trophies or acheivements as long as the spending is meager and revenues keeps filling their coffers.

 

[buckooo1978]

One of the Gooners on ArsenalFanTV mentioned the good point that Wenger will leave no good legacy behind for them as Ozil and Sanchez will leave and Iwobi is their only young player with potential. When he goes they will drop like a stone as even a new manager can't change enough in one transfer window to rescue them. And seems most have realised that Kroenke is the real one who needs to go as the acceptance of mediocrity starts there. They need to sack Wenger but that won't be nearly enough. They could do a Leeds here.

Or someone like Simeone could come in and have a Conte-like impact on the squad

I voted No as I think Wenger deserves the right to leave in the Summer before he is pushed.

It really depends who is appointed.....as much as I like someone like Eddie Howe and his footballing philosophy if he was hired to the role I could see another Moyes situation

 

[cyberman]

It's the brainwashing that annoys me. Neville etc preaching about qualifying for the CL like it's the be all and end all when in reality they're routinely embarassed on football's biggest stage.
They're either a massive club or not. Massive clubs don't suffer the humiliating first leg defeats year in, year out.
The biggest losers in all of this are the Bayern fans who book their tickets for the return legs over the years. It's always a fecking dead rubber.
If Arsenal are a big club then their CL exploits demands Wenger to be sacked. If they aren't then they have nothing to lose by sacking him. They have to at least try to improve.
United fell after Sir Alex because we were a title winning club. Our fallen aspirations are actually Arsenal's current objectives. If Wenger leaves and Arsenal do struggle to finish 4th and aren't in contention for top honours it means nothing has really changed.

 

[Oscie]

It's the brainwashing that annoys me. Neville etc preaching about qualifying for the CL like it's the be all and end all when in reality they're routinely embarassed on football's biggest stage.
They're either a massive club or not. Massive clubs don't suffer the humiliating first leg defeats year in, year out.
The biggest losers in all of this are the Bayern fans who book their tickets for the return legs over the years. It's always a fecking dead rubber.

They are a massive club though. The fans have just been conditioned over the years to think they're not and to think they should be thankful for finishing in the top 4 in a league where looking at their players, resources and financial muscle should see them in the top 4 by default anyway. They're conditioned to see bare minimum as an achievement and be grateful for it.

The opposite of the Emperor's new clothes. Wenger is instead dressed in his finery, dripping with the finest silks and instead convinced people he's naked and a pauper doing his best against the odds.

 

[Raees]

Wenger is not an all time great manager. Comfortably falls short on a number of fronts. Memorable manager for sure, one who gave the greatest a run for his money for a 8 year period but you'd be mad to refer to him as a top 15 manager of all time.

Tactically naive, poor man management in the sense he is too soft, lacks winning mentality and his dealings in the transfer market have got worse with time. I don't buy this bullshit excuse with the stadium and lack of funds, he simple lacks the nous to identify problem areas within the team and how to recruit effectively. All I see are excuses and nothing being done about it.

 

[cyberman]

They are a massive club though. The fans have just been conditioned over the years to think they're not and to think they should be thankful for finishing in the top 4 in a league where looking at their players, resources and financial muscle should see them in the top 4 by default anyway. They're conditioned to see bare minimum as an achievement and be grateful for it.

The opposite of the Emperor's new clothes. Wenger is instead dressed in his finery, dripping with the finest silks and instead convinced people he's naked and a pauper doing his best against the odds.

I acccidently posted half of my post so edited in the rest of it.
If they are massive it means their CL record is a sacking offence all on its own.
If we travelled back in time to 2004 and swapped Wenger for LVG and he had the same record we would equate the whole thing to our own collapse. Wenger is still there in name only.
Everything Neville was scaremongering about has already happened, they can't fall that much further.

 

[Raees]

They are a massive club though. The fans have just been conditioned over the years to think they're not and to think they should be thankful for finishing in the top 4 in a league where looking at their players, resources and financial muscle should see them in the top 4 by default anyway. They're conditioned to see bare minimum as an achievement and be grateful for it.

The opposite of the Emperor's new clothes. Wenger is instead dressed in his finery, dripping with the finest silks and instead convinced people he's naked and a pauper doing his best against the odds.

Agreed, historically speaking they are the third biggest side in England and the only area where they have let themselves down is Europe.

Their contribution to the domestic game has been massive but the aura of the club has taken a huge blow since 2006 and they've progressively downsized their ambition to the point they have become unrecognisable. Arsenal have always been a winning club, a club which expects the best and everyone has forgotten that.

They will go into free fall next few years but a big club like that based in London and with their fan base, in the long term they will be better off for it and a rival again - I am sure of it.

 

[AN17]

They spent in £96million this summer with few departures, 2015 they spent £101.13m with few departures. They must have money but kept buying little 17million pound players who aren't very good. Could they have not gone for Khedira on a free?

Just wasting money on players that don't enhance their team. This is £60million right there. That may have got them Aubemeyang or Higuain at one stage and finally they would've had a dangerous attack. But nope
Calum Chambers Southampton £17.20m
Danny Welbeck Man Utd £17.00m
Gabriel Paulista Villarreal CF £12.75m
Mathieu Debuchy Newcastle £12.75m

Spot on.
Chambers+Gabriel would have bought them a Bailly and look how they spunked similar anount on Mustafi.

Kante was an obvious choice to upgrade their midfield this season. And Wenger stalled on it, eventually Chelsea made the move. Instead they spunked even greater amount on a madman like Xhaka.

They never learn.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Or someone like Simeone could come in and have a Conte-like impact on the squad

I voted No as I think Wenger deserves the right to leave in the Summer before he is pushed.

It really depends who is appointed.....as much as I like someone like Eddie Howe and his footballing philosophy if he was hired to the role I could see another Moyes situation

Another one of their fans mentioned that who on earth would come and manage them with this board? I guess the answer to that would be an ambitionless mercenary. Rafa? Conte is doing well with a team of recent Champions - whoever takes over from Wenger will inherit a bunch of bottlers and risk losing his two star players and be left with dross. Its a huge challenge. Simeone in their dreams. Howe is more likely but I agree will be out of his depth.

 

[Oscie]

The game has moved on. He's got older. If you look at Fergie he reinvented himself over the years. The way we played in the 90s and the early 2000s entirely different to how we played in 2007-2011. And then in his final couple of season we adapted again, became more pragmatic. He adapted with the times and changed his approach to keep us successful. Wenger hasn't adapted, he hasn't changed.

 

[Peanut Butter]

It's a footballing crime and mystery how Wenger is still in a job.

If I owned Arsenal I would have sacked him at full time last night.

How can he just sit there looking sorry for himself when his team are getting battered 5-1? Why doesn't he change the system at half time and try to dig out a 1-1? Why don't Arsenal ever have a plan b?

This is all because of the manager. The players are not tactically or mentally prepared for big games.

 

[Stacks]

Another one of their fans mentioned that who on earth would come and manage them with this board? I guess the answer to that would be an ambitionless mercenary. Rafa? Conte is doing well with a team of recent Champions - whoever takes over from Wenger will inherit a bunch of bottlers and risk losing his two star players and be left with dross. Its a huge challenge. Simeone in their dreams. Howe is more likely but I agree will be out of his depth.

Chelsea are also bottlers too. Last season was a joke. Champions to relegation battlers is unacceptable. Their players showed a terrible mentality. Also their leaders are no longer features (terry, ivanovich, drogba). This is a refreshed team with some unstable players (Hazard, Cesc, Costa). already this season Costa has created beef with the manager

 

[OohAahMartial]

Chelsea are also bottlers too. Last season was a joke. Champions to relegation battlers is unacceptable. Their players showed a terrible mentality. Also their leaders are no longer features (terry, ivanovich, drogba). This is a refreshed team with some unstable players (Hazard, Cesc, Costa). already this season Costa has created beef with the manager

Do you think though that if Conte took over Arsenal instead of Chelsea that Arsenal would be top of the league with such a clear lead? I think Conte has done fantastic but I think he had a good inheritance.

 

[CM]

It seems strange for anybody to consider Wenger an all-time great. How can that be possible when the period of time without a title is longer than his period of success at Arsenal?

 

[giorno]

Do you think though that if Conte took over Arsenal instead of Chelsea that Arsenal would be top of the league?

Yes

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I think that is his greatest strength. He's been found that he can't keep a team. But he's a tactical Manager.

Tactically he's been found out time & again. Fergie took the piss playing 7 defenders against him and still win comfortably. Mourinho made him his bitch the day he came to England.

 

[mav_9me]

Arsenal have every reason to worry when Wenger leaves. This is the most competitive it's ever been for the top 4 with all the competition having great managers. They need to get a top manager or they risk going out of top 4. Given the ultra competitive state, once you're out of it might be so difficult to get back in.

I don't know what to do either. Wenger has to go but the risk of it going pear shaped is so high with changing managers.......

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Do you think though that if Conte took over Arsenal instead of Chelsea that Arsenal would be top of the league with such a clear lead? I think Conte has done fantastic but I think he had a good inheritance.

Conte would have made the signing necessary so that they could be realistic title contenders. Just as he did at Chelsea. Kante, Luiz have been really good signings and Marcos Alonso feels like a new player. I'm sure he would have done something similar at Arsenal.

 

[Jig1234]

Probably deserves the sack. However, I don't think things will suddenly improve I don't know if another manager can keep a club like Arsenal in Europe as Wenger has they might slip outside the top 4 a few times after he leaves, squad clear outs and churning of players is possible. Change is needed but it will be a long road back if they don't get the right man and also adapt the way the are run as a football club.

If you look at United many things changed once Fergie left. Joining Twitter milking social media etc the spending increased because of the that season under Moyes and attitude and our approach has completely changed and we're still not where we want to be yet.

It will take time for Arsenal i think

 

[ManRed]

Conte would have made the signing necessary so that they could be realistic title contenders. Just as he did at Chelsea. Kante, Luiz have been really good signings and Marcos Alonso feels like a new player. I'm sure he would have done something similar at Arsenal.

Arsenal are not 2 signings away but I would say 4-5 signings away from challenging for the title. Chelsea had a good team who had just won the league a season ago. Arsenal on the other hand need a top quality striker, 2 CM, winger, left back and possibly a goal keeper.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Arsenal are not 2 signings away but I would say 4-5 signings away from challenging for the title. Chelsea had a good team who had just won the league a season ago. Arsenal on the other hand need a top quality striker, 2 CM, winger, left back and possibly a goal keeper.

But they also have players that are not playing to their potential or being benched for no reason. I think Conte would probably get an extra 10% out of some of them players.

Why hasn't Wenger sorted this striker problem out? It's been there ages but he refuses to do anything about it. You're not going to challenge for the league with the main two strikers being Welbeck and a donkey.

 

[Zoo]

Is Wenger one of the all time greats?
I think he will go down as a good manager. Probably in the LVG class. Definitely not one of the all time greats.

John Cross lol.

 

[jackofalltrades]

He deserves fair treatment I'd say. He's been long-serving, loyal and did bring them the PL, albeit many years ago. Won the FA a few times too, 9 major domestic trophies plus 6 CS. He has earned the right to "retire" at the end of the season but he should leave with dignity then imo.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

I hope he doesn't get Sacked, rather just leaves at the end of the season with Arsenal falling to sixth place!!

He like SAF is the one who has build Arsenal FC with his football in the late 90's and early 00's . He has in place the foundations for Arsenal to be big again, so huge respect for him. But his race is run and just hope he goes gracefully. But make no mistakes ,Arsenal will miss him big time and hope they go through a transition seasons like Us and struggle for 3-5 Years. Some of their smug fans need a slap in the face of reality!

 

[Randall Flagg]

I hope he doesn't get Sacked, rather just leaves at the end of the season with Arsenal falling to sixth place!!

He like SAF is the one who has build Arsenal FC with his football in the late 90's and early 00's . He has in place the foundations for Arsenal to be big again, so huge respect for him. But his race is run and just hope he goes gracefully. But make no mistakes ,Arsenal will miss him big time and hope they go through a transition seasons like Us and struggle for 3-5 Years. Some of their smug fans need a slap in the face of reality!

He was great for them


But Arse won a league and the cup winners cup not that long before he took them over. He also had in place one of the best ever English defences and Bergkamp in his prime. It was a very nice position he got them in. Although his predecessor Bruce Rioch did a terrible job, there was a great foundation to build upon


Fergusons job was far harder when he took over Utd

 

[tangent]

I voted No but I think he should resign.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

It is mad to think there were genuine debates years ago as to who was the better manager Wenger or Fergie. It shows how good Wenger was back then that it was up for debate and it shows how far he's fallen since that the idea of rating Wenger as better than Fergie is completely laughable now.

 

[Mockney]

Wenger is not an all time great manager. Comfortably falls short on a number of fronts. Memorable manager for sure, one who gave the greatest a run for his money for a 8 year period but you'd be mad to refer to him as a top 15 manager of all time.

Tactically naive, poor man management in the sense he is too soft, lacks winning mentality and his dealings in the transfer market have got worse with time. I don't buy this bullshit excuse with the stadium and lack of funds, he simple lacks the nous to identify problem areas within the team and how to recruit effectively. All I see are excuses and nothing being done about it.

Agreed. It's understandable why his style of football gets praised, but he wasn't even the finest practitioner of it, and certainly not the most successful. Three league titles in the last 20 years, none of them back to back, and not a single European trophy in his entire career, isn't a remotely good enough record to be considered an "All Time" great. George Graham won 2 titles in 8 years (and a European trophy) and was probably just as responsible for Wenger's early defensive solidity, having actually assembled that famous backline.

There's definitely a lot of context, including his early team building, it's impact on the league, the Invincibles, and his post-Emirates frugality, but it's still a very low bar for GOATness.

 

[SaradM]

I think Arsenal and AW needs to part company. Whether he is sacked or he resigns, it does not matter. His achievements in his early years has let him carry on this far. But the humiliation he gets in Europe again and again and refuse to learn from past mistakes is good enough reason to sack him. Funny how some Arsenal fans were even comparing him to SAF not so long ago.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

He was great for them


But Arse won a league and the cup winners cup not that long before he took them over. He also had in place one of the best ever English defences and Bergkamp in his prime. It was a very nice position he got them in. Although his predecessor Bruce Rioch did a terrible job, there was a great foundation to build upon

Yes, but Bergkamp's prime had a lot to do with him. It was the kind of player that needs a certain style to excell. In an Allardyce team it would be a mediocre midfielder and I don't think a manager like Mourinho would have him shine like that. He had had Arsenal playing great for about 10 years and the club moved up a significant step since he took over. If I remember correctly, before Wenger Arsenal wasn't a regular title challenger nor a regular top 4 finisher.

I don't know the money situation exactly, but this new stadium was expensive and it's been a club that had to sell it's best players, even if they weren't world class. So to me they've always been an underdog against Europe's best and they in fact on average punched above their weight a little, both in the PL and the CL. They might be rich in the CL, but so are all English clubs and to be fair when a continental top side starts really playing most English clubs get outplayed and must fear for a hammering. Arsenal has often made it very hard work for Europe's best and was only outplayed by exception. So I think Wenger had done well in the CL too.

He certainly doesn't deserve to sacked. The problem is that in the last 10 years they have become stuck in the situation that they will do well but no one expects them to win something. Their highs and lows are too close to eachother. The fans would prefer to have a bad season from time to time, if it meant that they could have a really good season too. They really need a change of manager to shake that up and make silverware possible, but it will be quite hard to find a manager that will do a better job.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

As a United fan, I really want him to stay..

 

[OohAahMartial]

Agreed. It's understandable why his style of football gets praised, but he wasn't even the finest practitioner of it, and certainly not the most successful. Three league titles in the last 20 years, none of them back to back, and not a single European trophy in his entire career, isn't a remotely good enough record to be considered an "All Time" great. George Graham won 2 titles in 8 years (and a European trophy) and was probably just as responsible for Wenger's early defensive solidity, having actually assembled that famous backline.

There's definitely a lot of context, including his early team building, it's impact on the league, the Invincibles, and his post-Emirates frugality, but it's still a very low bar for GOATness.

I rate George Graham much higher than Wenger tbh and Wenger owes a lot to him.