Very good sir.
Should Wenger be sacked?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
If he does get sacked England should do whatever it takes to get him.
Maybe then England could actually pass the ball around and have some kind of identity.
Maybe then England could actually pass the ball around and have some kind of identity.
Yeah right.
Campbell and Cole were his, in fairness, but the rest of his great defenders were all Grahams. After they went, he never rebuilt a true one of his own, he just adequately masked it.
That's kind of true but the "Invincibles" defence was 100% Arsene signings, no?
I always think you can trace their decline to the departure of Gilberto. As well as a penchant for signing crap defenders, Arsene is second to none at signing defensive midfielders who flatter to deceive. It's amazing the way players like Flamini and Coquelin so quickly go from looking like the missing piece in the jigsaw to grossly incompetent. Which may be more of a reflection on the coaching they get after arriving at Arsenal than Wenger's eye for talent tbf.
Arsenal have not been good enough to win the title much less the Champions League for quite some time.
If he should be sacked for that or not depends on what the boards expectations have been.
He may decide his run is done and just retire.
If he should be sacked for that or not depends on what the boards expectations have been.
He may decide his run is done and just retire.
Keown?
I know it sounds silly to say their unbeaten league defence wasn't 'great' but they were always more a "score more than you" team, than a solid impenetrable unit. That's partly why their style was so feted.
Some good points in this thread but some information is way off base for reality. There is literally zero chance of Howe taking over. That was complete hype rubbish from english journalists doing what they do. Wenger is still one of the 4 highest paid managers in the world and as conservative and money hungry the board is, there is zero chance of Howe getting appointed. Arsenal is probably the English side that cares least about the Proper Football Man English manager clique. Zero chance of Howe. Allegri, Sampaoli, Sarri, Tuchel, etc would all make a lot more money at Arsenal than where they are now.
Also while the Board arent sugar daddys , it is Wenger who is choosing not to spend rather than Wenger being restricted.Summer 2015 conclusively proves this fact. i even believe Wenger did not want to buy anyone at all that summer but circumstances forced Cech on him.
Also while the Board arent sugar daddys , it is Wenger who is choosing not to spend rather than Wenger being restricted.Summer 2015 conclusively proves this fact. i even believe Wenger did not want to buy anyone at all that summer but circumstances forced Cech on him.
I think he only played a few games. Their back four was usually Lauren, Campbell, Toure and Cole.
They conceded 26 goals in that season. Fewer than anyone else, so they were definitely hard to break down (although not sure that compares to the norm for champions?) I do think Gilberto gets most of the credit, though. They've never had a central midfielder anywhere near as solid as him since.
FacerTheRed said:
You seriously think Arsenal is richer than Chelsea the club whose owner shoveled a billion pounds into the club and is paying for their new stadium or City whose owners give them whatever "commercial income" they need? im not denying that Arsenal could be spending much more efficiently, less socialist wage structure and overall spend a little more but unless the Arsenal boards lets 30% owner Usmanov put money in, no way is Arsenal going to be as rich as the oil clubs.
Fair enough
On a completely random tangent re goal tallies, was listening to Jonathan Wilson talking about Leicester's woes. I knew City were the only champion ever to have been relegated but didn't know that they went down after scoring more goals than any other team in the league. Which is very Arsenalesque.
More of a team effort that, though. I mean, Lauren was a bang average player, kolo was good but not really great either. It's just that the combination of physicality, pace and skill across the entire team made them very difficult to score against them. I mean, think about Pep's barcelona, a team that could play yaya as a CB in a CL final, with silvinho as LB, and concede little to a great man united side. Defence is always more of a collective effort than an individual one
Apart from the bit about being Champions.
Probably counts for naught seeing that they didn't win it, but Arsenal's run to the CL final in 2006 was done on the back of a defense that conceded only 2 goals in the group stages and none in the knockout stages. No surprise that the team approach that year was as cynical as I've ever seen Arsenal been (that's grammatically incorrect somewhere...)
I think so too. It was never as tight between 2nd and 6th as it is now. And while Arsenal always got their Top4 finish, we shouldn't forget that they also had a bit of luck that other teams were just worse. In the end they had 2,3 points more than us last year and we played an absysmal season. If they don't step it up in the next weeks and play like they did last year for example they will finish 5th or 6th imo.
For 9 years?
weak characters in that team. It'll be gutted apart when Wenger does go
I think he made a mistake last night in not playing Welbeck away from home. He wouldn't have let the Bayern players settle for a minute, pressing from the front.
A new manager could come in and set them up to be harder to beat. Sign a goalscorer. And theoretically Arsenal could win the league next year.
Alternatively a new manager could come in and Arsenal could drop out of the top 4, especially with the competitiveness of the league at the minute. A few bad appointments and they could be in a real mess.
What bugs me about the hysterical Arsenal fans is that they want him out, not because they want a change in 'philosophy', but because they think they deserve to win the league and Champions League, over teams like United, City, Chelsea, Barca, Real, Bayern. They don't seem to have the slightest inclination of how bad it could get before it gets better. I wonder how many of them would take 5 years of poor football, finishing below Tottenham and no Champions League football, just to get that new manager they crave so much. Would anyone be surprised if that's how it went?
Alternatively a new manager could come in and Arsenal could drop out of the top 4, especially with the competitiveness of the league at the minute. A few bad appointments and they could be in a real mess.
What bugs me about the hysterical Arsenal fans is that they want him out, not because they want a change in 'philosophy', but because they think they deserve to win the league and Champions League, over teams like United, City, Chelsea, Barca, Real, Bayern. They don't seem to have the slightest inclination of how bad it could get before it gets better. I wonder how many of them would take 5 years of poor football, finishing below Tottenham and no Champions League football, just to get that new manager they crave so much. Would anyone be surprised if that's how it went?
I thought playing Welbeck, one of their best player was a no brainer. Guess not. Their problem is They play the game as if they were playing against Sunderland. They were not defensive enough and they gave the ball away too many times. I bet Jose would have done a lot better with that team if he was their coach.
He's won 2 UCLs compared to Wenger's none. Both with teams who worked their socks off against better opposition at times
I think they just had enough of this old man and they want someone different, not necessarily better but different.
With him they know they'll never win anything significant and they'd rather take their chances with someone else than stick with Wenger. We'd probably feel the same if we were in their shoes.
Literally no Arsenal fan thinks we "deserve to win the league and CL" . Literally none.
What you see is frustration at the lack of any sort of ambition or progress. All Arsenal fans want is a decent title challenge every few years and a run into the CL. Perfectly reasonable considering Juventus, Atletico and Dortmund all reached a CL final recently spending less than Arsenal on transfers amd wages. All perfectly reasonable. And I remember Arsenal's 1994-95 season so I feel I am far more clued in to how bad it can get than you experiencing 6th place. Go look up Arsenal league position in 1994-95.
You are basically getting annoyed at your own imagination.
I don't know the full story surrounding the Suarez stuff during summer 2013, but Wenger really screwed up missing out on him.
I think they'd have a couple more league titles by now if they'd signed him.
I think they'd have a couple more league titles by now if they'd signed him.
Not just him apparently. There was Ronaldo among others
Naw not with Wenger managing. Suarez didnt bring you the title and if we had signed Suarez we wouldnt have signed Ozil and guarantee we also would have sold after 1 year after the biting incident. Higuian was the real signing we missed out on.
Frankly I enjoy everytime Arsenal lose but I do admire the way Wenger goes on around sticking to his footballing principles. In all our rivals, Arsenal will have the most respect even though they are laughing stocks at times. And that is down to Wenger. In 3 years after Sir Alex, we have realized how hard is it to be in top 4. We have changed managers, spent crazy amount of money and still it is a fight. That shows the amount of appreciation Wenger deserves. He may be outdated and stubborn but his teams still have those runs now and then. Last year they finished second. He always reminds me of that era 10-12 years back when Sir Alex had to fight him and Mourinho, change the way we play, build a new team. And what came after that was magnificent. These footballing rivalries produce that. So I wouldn't mind seeing him for sometime.
It's over.
I would like to say I avoided the media reaction to last night's match and ignored all the messages concerning the result or that I felt angry or even numb to the result.
But I didn't do any of that or feel either of those emotions. 8-2, 6-0, 5-1, 4-0, 6-2 and 3-0. I've grown accustomed to these type of results. I felt disappointed more than and anything and disgusted at myself for not being angry at last night. But when it happens every season, there are only so many times you can go through the same range of emotions before you mentally check out.
That is what I feel the players have done and I feel bad for Wenger. Forget tactics or instructions, to a man, none of them looked like they gave a monkey's arse about what was happening and I saw that against Chelsea and Man City. I can expect that from the players who came to the club in their mid 20s and have no affiliation with Arsenal outside of being a paid employee, but from the likes of Walcott, Gibbs, Coquelin and the rest? Who have been here since their teen years? I think their lack of effort has been blatantly disrespectful to the man who made them footballers.
There is this malaise running through the club at the moment where I think only one man wants to win and that's the manager, but he doesn't know how to do it anymore. Or if he does, he refuses to buy the right players to execute his vision because he's too close to the crop of players we have now and not ruthless enough to cull them, for example he didn't buy Kante because we had Coquelin. Wenger is also responsible for this malaise because there are no consequences for our players. They play badly for two weeks, its a gurantee that they will be selected for the third game. Whereas our bench players, who play well when given an opportunity either off the bench or in a cup game, find themselves on the bench again.
Most of our players talk a good game in the media, but none of them are captain material. Not a single one, it amuses me when I hear someone exclaim how great of a captain Mertesacker is for example, yet when a collapse happens on the pitch, he is nowhere to be seen, but after the game the first person to give an interview talking about how we will set it right and other niceties. Walcott is much the same.
Should Wenger go? Yes, for his own sake and the club's. We need a bunch of new players and a new way of playing because we're making the same failings every year. Also we need a new coaching staff, Wenger's kept the same people year after year and they care clearly failing at their jobs. We should have freshened up the coaching personnel every few years. However I fear that the new coach will be forced to keep the likes of Boro Primorac etc because the club will have an eye on what happened to United when Moyes brought in his own people, without analyzing the differences between the two situations or why our coaching staff should be retained/removed.
I would like to say I avoided the media reaction to last night's match and ignored all the messages concerning the result or that I felt angry or even numb to the result.
But I didn't do any of that or feel either of those emotions. 8-2, 6-0, 5-1, 4-0, 6-2 and 3-0. I've grown accustomed to these type of results. I felt disappointed more than and anything and disgusted at myself for not being angry at last night. But when it happens every season, there are only so many times you can go through the same range of emotions before you mentally check out.
That is what I feel the players have done and I feel bad for Wenger. Forget tactics or instructions, to a man, none of them looked like they gave a monkey's arse about what was happening and I saw that against Chelsea and Man City. I can expect that from the players who came to the club in their mid 20s and have no affiliation with Arsenal outside of being a paid employee, but from the likes of Walcott, Gibbs, Coquelin and the rest? Who have been here since their teen years? I think their lack of effort has been blatantly disrespectful to the man who made them footballers.
There is this malaise running through the club at the moment where I think only one man wants to win and that's the manager, but he doesn't know how to do it anymore. Or if he does, he refuses to buy the right players to execute his vision because he's too close to the crop of players we have now and not ruthless enough to cull them, for example he didn't buy Kante because we had Coquelin. Wenger is also responsible for this malaise because there are no consequences for our players. They play badly for two weeks, its a gurantee that they will be selected for the third game. Whereas our bench players, who play well when given an opportunity either off the bench or in a cup game, find themselves on the bench again.
Most of our players talk a good game in the media, but none of them are captain material. Not a single one, it amuses me when I hear someone exclaim how great of a captain Mertesacker is for example, yet when a collapse happens on the pitch, he is nowhere to be seen, but after the game the first person to give an interview talking about how we will set it right and other niceties. Walcott is much the same.
Should Wenger go? Yes, for his own sake and the club's. We need a bunch of new players and a new way of playing because we're making the same failings every year. Also we need a new coaching staff, Wenger's kept the same people year after year and they care clearly failing at their jobs. We should have freshened up the coaching personnel every few years. However I fear that the new coach will be forced to keep the likes of Boro Primorac etc because the club will have an eye on what happened to United when Moyes brought in his own people, without analyzing the differences between the two situations or why our coaching staff should be retained/removed.
Yeah you kind of just made my point. All you want is improved results. Which this season would have meant keeping pace with Chelsea winning 13 in a row, something Mourinho at United, Pep at City, Klopp at Liverpool were unable to do and beating Bayern in the Champions League, as well as whoever they would have got in the next few rounds. My point is a new manager doesn't guarantee that. In fact most people would say that the situation as it is now, it's likely to go the other way.
Additionally I would also be extremely sceptical that the fans would stick by a new manager who came in and in three years challenged once, got to one Champions League final and finished outside the top four for the next two years.
I agree 100% that I would want to roll the dice too. But I would be fully be prepared for 3, 4 maybe even 5 seasons of no Champions League football or title challenges. Guy on Arsenal FanTV saying he grew up with Arsenal winning and he didn't want his kids getting "cussed out" at school. Do you think he is prepared for those years? Or is he expecting (demanding) a Conte like reaction?
He's leaving, imo.
Should he go back to Monaco while Jardim joins Arsenal?
Yeah as Pogue pointed out, they apparently were actually quite good. It's weird that I just instinctively don't think of them as a classic defence.
He gets it right quite often, tbf.I think the journalist knows nothing
I don't understand this, how can it be mutual, when they have offered him a contract with terms etc and all Wenger needs to do is sign it?
A better course, albeit an empty gesture, would have been to remove the offer from the table and then state that discussions will be had at the end of the season unless Wenger announces he is leaving before the season ends.
This just seems like empty rhetoric and a continuation of the story that the board wants Wenger to stay but its up to him.
I feel like Wenger and the board have been playing games with the supporters for years now. This constant 'will he/won't he?' contractual stuff, when everyone knows that Arsene, the owner & board are perfectly happy to carry on playing at being accountants; 'the board won't let him spend'/Wenger watching the pennies like Henry VII in his counting-house etc etc - is a charade that should be transparent to all. Even the achievements have an underlying mordant note and are glossed over (for example, the regular implosion of other top-four rivals, allowing Arsenal to make the CL time and again)...
It's long been time for a change but don't count on Kroenke, Wenger and the board to make it; and, again, the opinions of disgruntled fans won't be heard or acknowledged for fear of upsetting the gravy train.
It's long been time for a change but don't count on Kroenke, Wenger and the board to make it; and, again, the opinions of disgruntled fans won't be heard or acknowledged for fear of upsetting the gravy train.
I wonder if Wenger will apologise to the fans at the next home game, like our Jose did after we were outplayed and hammered off Chelsea?