Huh?
Should Wenger be sacked?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Huh?
You're arguing against straw men. Most of us who still support Wenger do so because we think he is the best man for the job (among realistic targets), not because he won something a decade ago.
You all deserve him. Deluded.
I think that the way United's board handled Ferguson departure has actually scared Arsenal's board about Wenger's exit and that's why they keep on keeping him.
As someone who doesn't like Arsenal much, it's quite funny to see this situation unfold.
As someone who doesn't like Arsenal much, it's quite funny to see this situation unfold.
Do you really think the Mourinho comparison is fair? Jose has had 7 months at United. It has been mentioned multiple times but the reason Wenger has gotten so much grief is because he has struggled for a number of years.Im a big Jose fan too but if he went through similar struggles here after so many years then I would question him, and rightly so.
For me it seems there is a level of fear that some Arsenal fans have is with change. They think that giving that giving Wenger more money will solve the ills. But will that fix the many times Arsenal have been tactically outwitted many times under Wenger, even by weaker teams?
Yes he is one of the most successful managers in your history but shouldn't be be judged by his perfomances in the job he is paid to do at the end of the day? He can't live on goodwill from 13 years ago.
True.
They have seen how we have had to spend and it probably keeps them up at night.
But Wenger is no longer a shoe in for top 4 in an ever challenging league so their guaranteed golden goose of 4th is under threat.
Some questions regarding this article:
1) There are no sources provided for the claim that Gazidis was willing to finance bigger deals for Higuain and Suarez but Wenger was the one who demurred. Is there any evidence for this claim?
2) The whole article seems to be whitewashing Gazidis and Kroenke's share in the responsibility and pointing the finger for every mistake at Wenger. Do you think its a fair and unbiased perspective?
P.S. thanks for the article, was a good read.
Wenger is definitely consistent.
Consistently getting top 4, but not winning the league.
Consistently making it to the last 16 (CL), but not any further.
Meanwhile LCFC, in 2 years, win the league and make the last 8 (CL). AFC have been trying to achieve this for over a decade.
Wenger's consistency should not be looked as something positive, unless you are the AFC board, who only care about money (not trophies) and see Wenger/AFC as a cash cow. Nothing more...nothing less.
ok thanks guy. good talk
Good to see Giroud come out in support of Wenger
No other manager will keep him as team's no 1 striker
No other manager will keep him as team's no 1 striker
So you're telling actual Arsenal fans (People who care about the club and are far more emotionally invested than you) they are wrong in wanting what they want? That's a bit ridiculous.
I don't think there is definitive proof of that but reading between the lines of interviews from both Wenger and Gazidis over the past 4 years I think its a pretty fair claim. Arsene has consistently moaned about rising transfer costs and made comments about value for money in the market. Of course that never stopped him from overpaying squad players over market wages due to his idealist wage structure. He would definitely balk at RM raising Higuain's price out of principle. Gazidis, if we take him at his word, would be willing to spend more.
To me the convincing evidence of that theory is summer of 2015. We clearly had at the bare minimum 50-60M to spend having bought Alexis and Ozil the previous two summers. But Wenger insisted on not spending repeatedly saying in interviews that he was happy with his squad. Wenger has continually given contracts to his favored players with seemingly no one questioning that decision. It certainly wasn't Gazidis handing Diaby contract after contract to lie on the injury table season after season. Especially for Higuain since he went for less in the end than Ozil did so clearly we could have made that purchase and Wenger does have final say on all transfers.
Mostly yes. I don't think it whitewashes Kroenke so much as Gazidis but all other biographers and insiders I have read, its pretty much accepted Wenger has the final word and more power than Gazidis so Wenger must bear more responsibility. I don't think Kroenke even pays any attention at all. He follows Arsenal like an investor follows the stock index not like a fan that cares about the club.
As long we keep churning profit, I doubt Kroenke cares or even knows if the fans support Wenger or not. And latest report was we turned 12M profit this year after spending 100M in the summer. So in that sense we could certainly spend within our means better than Wenger has because Wenger is attached to his philosophies like socialistic wage structure and also giving his favored players contracts far past their sell-by.
The way I see it Wenger has to go to really determine how much ambition Gazidis really has but by interviews he seems hungrier than Wenger at the very least.
Cheers and good grief indeed.
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Yup, completely agree.
It's nice to see you back by the way, haven't been around here for some time have you?
Fair point about Higuain costing less than Ozil. I guess my doubt is whether the interviews represent the truth or Wenger is set up as the fall guy for the board. If Gazidis comes out and says we don't need to spend there will be outrage but when Wenger says it it's more acceptable to the fans (at least until now). It also mirrors United a bit under Sir Alex's last years with 'no value in the market' and then when both Fergie and Gill go there's suddenly money to burn. United fans are still conflicted over who was really responsible for that approach.
However, in Arsenal's case you guys did spend a decent amount last summer, and if a new manager came in now and spent a bunch, there'd be absolutely no doubt left that Wenger was the one holding the purse strings.
Yeah, Kroenke does seem a fairly disinterested owner (from a football POV). Your point about Wenger being the more powerful of the two makes sense, and the socialistic wage structure is definitely a problem of his construction. As you say, Wenger leaving and a new ambitious manager coming in is probably the only way Arsenal fans can learn the truth about what is happening at their club.
As you saw with the planes, they are split on the issue themselves.
Thanks! Was AFK for around four months.
Its not ridiculous. It is like a wife suffering from domestic abuse who still wants her husband and saying she is in the right. Her emotional investment is blinding her to the reality of the situation she finds herself in.
People need to be able to separate the Wenger that was, to the Wenger of now. He is a danger to the club rather than an asset right now.. and lacks awareness as to his own flaws and that of his own sides.
They're absolutely deluded. It is saying something when someone like Troops is arguably one of their fans who can actually see through the bullshit.
I believe I saw some theories that the pro arsenal plane was paid for by a company with ties to the Arsenal owners. Don't remember where I read it and could be completely false. But I've yet to see proper backing of him from a group of fans that makes me believe there's a part of the fan base who would pay for it.
Please walk me through this. I really want to understand why you believe this
About wage structure: i'm not sure the problem is the first team's wage structure. If the wages reported on the internet are correct, than it's the wages going into club officials, youth teams, etc, that are crippling them. Juventus for example have a lower total wage bill than arsenal, but if we look at the first team's wage bill alone, juve's higher
I definitely didn't mean that in a good way.
Only thing I have to add to this today is thank God we didn't have to go through this with Sir Alex.
Reading our supposed warchest for this summer it sems we are preparing for the Europa League.
I don't think it is the worst thing in the world if Wenger wins that next year. It is a good European trophy and its profile will only get better with CL qualification to play for. It is well respected outside England I think.
That's probably due to Arsenal having more of the ball than their opponents.
These reports in press seem a bit premature. He is leaving at end of the season. These reports are to create sanity for the players.
The same Gazidis who misled the fans for years regarding a 'war chest' and lied about the 'Adebeyor money' that never materialised.
The Emirates Cup in the summer it is then.
Unless the money was there and Wenger just chose not to spend it
The thread title should read:
Why Hasn't Wenger Been Sacked Yet?
Why Hasn't Wenger Been Sacked Yet?
You have 2 of the richest men in the world and they let Wenger run the club!
Madness
It wasn't there, they have had to sell players in order to balance the books. Their cash reserves are there to to offset the debt they still carry from building the new stadium.
That is cringe worthy.
So do Liverpool and manchester city. Anybody have their running stats?
A year without CL would actually help Arsenal compete for the league! If Arsene gets top 4 I'd suggest he leaves because it will just be 'same again'
The obsession with "Top Four" should be limited to dull board meetings with the owners! the idea that fans are now so caught up in the race for top four is ridiculous.
Premiership clubs are loaded with cash with or without Europe!
The obsession with "Top Four" should be limited to dull board meetings with the owners! the idea that fans are now so caught up in the race for top four is ridiculous.
Premiership clubs are loaded with cash with or without Europe!
Yeah only the board really knows all the details there and us fans can really only go by interviews and then compare them to actions to see some consistency. I posted an infographic month or so ago that highlight how the Board, Wenger and fans have basically three different sets of wants.
Basically I think Wenger is willing to not spend all the money he has available because he is stubbornly dedicated to his development projects whereas the Board and Gazidis is fine with spending all money available as long as profit is being made and share values keep increasing. So they mostly overlap but to me its more Wenger's attached to his favored players and projects that ultimately holds back investment.
Well said. Being in the CL is hugely overrated from a financial perspective.
Based on Swiss Ramble, Gazidis was correct, we did have a war chest. It wasn't as large as the £200M+ money in the bank that was reported on a lot, but it became fairly clear in the 2015 mercado that Wenger was choosing not to spend all that was made available.
from May2011
http://swissramble.blogspot.ca/2011/05/arsenals-transfer-budget.html