Smalling & Blind Partnership

ivaldo said:
And Smalling has been saved numerous times by Blind. No defender is perfect, it's s rarity in a game for a defender not to be caught out of positon, beaten in the air of outpaced at least once.
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Smalling has had to cover for Blind far more times. If you don't agree to that, then there is no point discussing this. Blind is better than Smalling in only one aspect.
 
NK86 said:
Smalling has had to cover for Blind far more times. If you don't agree to that, then there is no point discussing this. Blind is better than Smalling in only one aspect.
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Certainly not recently, have you not been watching us play? Blind has been much the better defender in the last 10 games or so, that's been pretty apparent, even to most of Blinds doubters. Smalling seemed to have just gotten through his stage of bumbling forward and leaving Blind completely isolated.
 
ivaldo said:
Certainly not recently, have you not been watching us play? Blind has been much the better defender in the last 10 games or so, that's been pretty apparent, even to most of Blinds doubters. Smalling seemed to have just gotten through his stage of bumbling forward and leaving Blind completely isolated.
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I don't see Blind getting exposed by Smalling bombarding forward but I have seen Smalling having to rush to cover for Blind when he gets turned by an attacker. I am not saying that Blind has not had to cover to Smalling on occasions but Smalling has had to bail Blind out much more often.
 
NK86 said:
I don't see Blind getting exposed by Smalling bombarding forward but I have seen Smalling having to rush to cover for Blind when he gets turned by an attacker. I am not saying that Blind has not had to cover to Smalling on occasions but Smalling has had to bail Blind out much more often.
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You've not seen it? He had a habit of overcommiting recently, seems to have settled a bit now. Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate of Smalling v Blind, I happen to think they're a pretty solid pairing and wouldn't object us going into next season with them as our starting centrebacks. Of course if we can improve on Blind there then I have no objections, Blinds versatility means he'll find ample game time covering elsewhere. I don't think it'll be easy or cheap to find a replacement for Blind mind.
 
NK86 said:
The midfielders have been dire at creating chances. Our defense as whole gets opened up very regularly when the opponents attack us with some conviction. Have I been imagining the time when Wolfsburg, Arsenal, Liverpool, etc cut through our back 4 like a hot knife through butter when they really tried to take the game to us?
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But, you think midfielders have been good at protecting the defense too? If what you said about those team cutting our back like a hot knife, it might mean they didn't in those games.

I mean if we had 2 DMs and our defense were exposed as you said, they had to take responsibility too no?

My point is that our midfield has not been as good as we expect them to overall. Morgan seems like half the player of last season. Carrick and BFS either getting injured or being shit often. So it is not like the midfield is carrying our CBs. They have been average at best.

Also, there is no team that never have a bad game. We played around 50 games already and if we were a bit shaky in 10 games, it is understandable. It is not like Ferdinand + Vidic never got skinned badly in a few matches each season.

The defense certainly has done their job. If our attacking play is as good as them, we would be going places now.
 
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Ramos+Smalling partnership would have been the best in the premiership. But it was obvious that he wasn't going to come.
 
CG1010 said:
Ramos+Smalling partnership would have been the best in the premiership. But it was obvious that he wasn't going to come.
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Considering LvG's hard on for the left and right footed CBs at the back, it may well of been Blind & Ramos.
 
nick2004 said:
Blind is the reason we play with two defensive midfielders.
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Exactly this.

Blind has done about as well as anybody could have hoped, not being a central defender playing every week in central defence, but if we ever want to be challenging for the title or the Champions League again we have to get a centre back in. A proper one.
 
nick2004 said:
LVG is from Netherlands.

Blind is from Netherlands.

That's the main reason for the Smalling - Blind "Partnership".

And that's the main reason we play with two defensive midfielders.

We need a proper center back, not Blind.
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You are unto something here.

Seen the same preferential treatment with Vayne Vooney as well.
 
nick2004 said:
LVG is from Netherlands.

Blind is from Netherlands.

That's the main reason for the Smalling - Blind "Partnership".

And that's the main reason we play with two defensive midfielders.

We need a proper center back, not Blind.
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I think Blind has actually done quite well. Imo the main reason why he plays at CB is because he is left footed and LvG insist on a left footed CB on the left CB spot. Add to that the fact that Rojo is awful and you can see why he is playing there.

I agree though we should add someone like Laporte to the team so we have a "real" left footed defender in the squad.
 
It is not just by chance that we got two players from the Netherlands. It is natural and it happens with most managers. Mourinho brought Portuguese players with him when he first managed Chelsea.

Depay did a lot of silly mistakes to get dropped. This made even more important to have Blind on the squad. So, we play with two DMs and a very conservative game-plan that does not expose our back often. The result: only 42 goals in attack.
 
As good as Blind has been, I'd look to move him to defensive midfield in Carrick's place and start building around Smalling - Fosu Mensah and Shaw plus whoever stakes a claim for starting right back spot between Darmian and Varela. I think the current squad as it is will peak in about 2-3 years when TFM, Shaw, Martial and Rashford all start becoming more consistent.
 
Carrick has gone off the edge now, and I doubt they'll renew his contract, so Blind is the obvious person to replace him in the squad/team. For 80% of the game that won't look much different to how he plays as a CB next to Smalling, and he'll still be doing all the sort of things that we've liked from him this season.

So I don't think wanting to replace him at CB and thinking he's a really important part of this squad are mutually exclusive.
 
nick2004 said:
It is not just by chance that we got two players from the Netherlands. It is natural and it happens with most managers. Mourinho brought Portuguese players with him when he first managed Chelsea.

Depay did a lot of silly mistakes to get dropped. This made even more important to have Blind on the squad. So, we play with two DMs and a very conservative game-plan that does not expose our back often. The result: only 42 goals in attack.
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Absolutely, that's why RVP is still at the club. All those Spaniards must've been by chance though right?
 
ivaldo said:
Absolutely, that's why RVP is still at the club. All those Spaniards must've been by chance though right?
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He fell out with RVP and then fecked him off. He was undroppable for 80% of last season.

This is probably the worst bunch of Dutch players for about 40 odd years. 2 is probably still too many, considering how bang average the dutch team is outside of Arjen Robben.
 
In retrospect, have to give credit to LVG for sticking with Blind. Nobody saw that coming and I certainly didn't think it would work as well as it has. For all his shortcomings, Blind has been a net positive for us and I don't think we'd have been much better off spending on the names people wanted outside the top options like Hummels and Ramos. Would Otamendi have improved us that much? Doubt it.

Like other have said, we should go after a young player like Stones who can develop into a top CB but I'm not too worried about the current partnership. Fix the tactics first and I think we'll be far better off before even changing the squad.
 
Skills said:
He fell out with RVP and then fecked him off. He was undroppable for 80% of last season.

This is probably the worst bunch of Dutch players for about 40 odd years. 2 is probably still too many, considering how bang average the dutch team is outside of Arjen Robben.
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We play with one dutchman, one was sold and another can't get a game despite how shite Lingard has been. To suggest LVG has adjusted our formation and starting XI to accomodate Blind just because he's Dutch seems a bit far fetched don't you think?
 
ivaldo said:
We play with one dutchman, one was sold and another can't get a game despite how shite Lingard has been. To suggest LVG has adjusted our formation and starting XI to accomodate Blind just because he's Dutch seems a bit far fetched don't you think?
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Lingard's been far better than Depay.

I don't think there's a nationality bias, but he did pretty much plan for this season playing Blind at CB. He broke up our best CB partnership from last season and dropped our best CB in the first game of the pre-season, and played Blind there from the start. So it's not really far fetched to assume Van Gaal bought/planned everything to accommodate Blind in defense.
 
Skills said:
Lingard's been far better than Depay.

I don't think there's a nationality bias, but he did pretty much plan for this season playing Blind at CB. He broke up our best CB partnership from last season and dropped our best CB in the first game of the pre-season, and played Blind there from the start. So it's not really far fetched to assume Van Gaal bought/planned everything to accommodate Blind in defense.
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He's not been far better, at all. They've both been equally shit and if he was strung up on the nationality thing then he would be getting game time ahead of him, but that's not for this thread. He wanted a ball playing central defender, Ramos declined to join, at most Blind was sloppy seconds. You agree though, it's ridiculous to suggest he plays because he's Dutch, which is the point I was arguing against.
 
I think its been a decent partnership. Smalling’s marking has been particularly impressive, while Blind supplies the passing quality. Watching Blind spray passes from the back and help United build up-play has been one of the few enjoyable things about this team. I think going forward we need a centre-back who is hybrid of both Smalling and Blind. Jan Vertonghen is probably the ideal fit because he is comfortable on the ball but also doesn't have the physical weaknesses that Blind has. If that profile of player is not on the market then I guess we might as well stick with it. Blind has adapted well to centre-back, he has not been exposed as much as people thought he would and the main reason why is because his positional sense is good. I would imagine if Mourinho is our manager he won't buy into playing Blind at centre-back and would see him more as a useful utility player who could cover 3 positions.
 
ivaldo said:
Absolute bullshit, still fits your story though
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I think he's right. Jones played in the "first team" throughout preseason with Smalling in the Herrera team. We'll never know for sure because Jones was injured before the first game of the season.

I really like Blind. He is a very intelligent player and is a manager's dream as he can play in multiple positions to a good standard. In the current possession based cautious style United plays it's a good partnership.

My issue with it is that I don't believe United will be successful using this style. I also don't think it is a particularly well drilled back 4 defensively and if they return to a more open style this defence will really struggle.

It's a big change from what I am used to seeing from a United defence. The back 4 don't defend at all as a unit or the centre backs as a partnership. It is clearly by design as they don't appear to have any inclination to do so.
 
Smalling has been decent recently but vastly over-rated by a lot of people on here. He'll never be world class because he's shit on the ball. I've never seen any other player get so much credit for passing sideways and backwards. There's been a lot of talk recently about all the grappling and shirt pulling in the box. If they start to clamp down on it, which I believe they should, he wouldn't last 5 minutes in a game.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was upgraded, which wouldn't be that difficult to do. If I had to keep one of the two it would certainly be Blind. He covers more ground, is more natural on the ball and just adds that much more quality going forward.
 
Another masterpiece, we need a cdm while our natural cdm is played as center back.

Then we will need to buy a center back because our center back is naturally a cdm!

Just buy a cb and get done with it
 
The fact is - Blind and Smalling have both been very good. If we take into consideration that they often play behind a central midfield who hasn't worked well - and new left- and rightbacks in each game, they have done really well.

Blind could be quicker and taller - but he is probably the smartest centreback, and I can't think of anyone who passes the ball better than him. Basically we could get a slightly better defender than Blind, but it would also mean that we would lose a lot playing the ball out of defense where he is among the best.

It's a very good partnership and they are more than good enough to fight for the title.
 
ivaldo said:
He's not been far better, at all. They've both been equally shit and if he was strung up on the nationality thing then he would be getting game time ahead of him, but that's not for this thread. He wanted a ball playing central defender, Ramos declined to join, at most Blind was sloppy seconds. You agree though, it's ridiculous to suggest he plays because he's Dutch, which is the point I was arguing against.
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Lingard is nowhere near Depay's potential. But Lingard works his socks off defensively and looks composed. Depay doesn't. Lingard is a very good player but he will never be great, Depay could be great, but at the moment he is poor.
 
We absolutely need an upgrade. Blind has done a solid job but we've been lucky he and Smalling have stayed fit for most of the season because the other options are very poor at present.

I rate Blind's passing too so i'd like to see him rotated in Centre midfield and then he can cover in the LCB position if neccesary.
 
I'd like for us to sign another CB in the summer to allow him to slide forward as Carrick's replacement in midfield against the top 2/3 of the table and then slide back to CB for those matches where we dominate possession and need quicker passing to wear down unambitious opposition.
 
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