Social cohesion post-Brexit: let 'em rot?

UKIP? Why would there be a need for UK Independence Party at the next election when the UK is now officially independent?

They're kind of a one trick pony in that regard. Might want to change their name to 'Muslims Out Immediately Party' and see where that takes them.

You think Farage is going to go away now?

His whole act will be about ensuring article 50 is triggered and immigration is 'dealt with'. He said as much on Friday.

The longer article 50 is not activated the more traction UKIP will get. A lot of people backed leave based on immigration. EEA membership, complete with free movement, is not gonna be enough for them. If they get betrayed by Boris then, trust me, Farage will be there for them.
 
I'm northern and voted remain too! Sorry, we may be at cross-purposes here. Crazy days with fast-moving threads.
I'm northern and like you voted remain as did my neighbour who is big old school Labour. However the town voted Out overall and I despise them for it.
 
UKIP? Why would there be a need for UK Independence Party at the next election when the UK is now officially independent?

They're kind of a one trick pony in that regard. Might want to change their name to 'Muslims Out Immediately Party' and see where that takes them.

Little Englanders are gonna need someone to blame when this inevitably goes tits up.
 
I'm going to speak what's on my heart and mind right now - it is probably overly dramatic and I'm sure plenty will raise eyebrows but I can't help how I feel.

Firstly, I'm British. I was born here. But my ethnic origin is Indian. Maybe I'm in a very small minority, but for the first time in my life I genuinely feel hesitant, for use of a better word, that I'm not welcome here. I know that's a massive overreaction and probably not true, but believe me I've thought on it and tried to shake it, but for the first time I have a voice in the back of my head that is telling me, making me doubt for the first time, whether i belong here. I look at people when I board the train and wonder what they're thinking. I walk the streets and I wonder if anyone's thought in their mind, "I wish he wasn't here".

Secondly, I'm openly a labour voter normally. I very much believe that if I'm wealthy, and I earn well, then a fair share of my wealth should be taken to help the poorer less well off. That's not to say I enjoy paying taxes, who does? But I'm comfortable and morally happy in feeling I should do my bit. That's changed. Some voters voted leave because they have read the facts and made up their mind. No problem. Some voted leave because of personal experience which has affected them and their view. No problem. But some voted as a feck you to establishment. Some voted because they look at the glamour and wealth of London (where I work) with disgust and jealousy. Some voted because they just wanted to kick those who work hard and pay their fair share in the teeth. This has changed my view. Londons wealth is what drives everyone else's economies. I'm the first to know and admit that the wealth London generates isn't distributed fairly, let's say, over the country. And I know that many decisions are with London in mind at the neglect of the rest of the country. Yet, these voters seem to forget that if they hit London, they only will get hit about 50x as hard. Yet just to put their ego on top, they wanted it. They did it. And now, I think, feck this shit tax that I pay to help some of these people, however small a portion gets to them. If they want to give us the finger, perhaps it's time I did too.

Finally, putting aside the economics of it all, it deeply upsets me that the people whom I live near, share the same town, county, and country with, have become so insular. So inward looking. So nationalist. I believe in embracing cultures, embracing people, embracing the world. Working together trying to make it a better place in all that. It feels like we have turned our back on these principles that I believe in so deeply.

Bottom line, there is a huge divide. And frankly when I think of those people from Sunderland who are poor and don't get much support or jobs, I think feck you too. Go and rot.

I hate I feel that way. But sadly, I do. I think that if Boris does come in, and god knows I would hate it, I think of these people who voted in this way with a smirk knowing that they will get absolutely screwed over by this.

I genuinely think the divide between London especially and some other parts of the U.K. is simply too big to fix. The gulf in fundamental beliefs is so significant that it's almost like it's not the same country. In fact I would go as far as saying it's more different than some whole countries are from one another.

It's significant. And something has to happen. It might not be now, but one day it'll be enough is enough and we will have a real issue.

One day on, I thought I'd have calmed a bit. But I haven't. I still feel insecure in my "wantedness" here. I still think so badly of those wankers who voted leave for the wrong reasons. And I can't stand the idea of someone voting leave.

We could be in a world where Trump and BoJo are leaders of two great countries. What a shame that'd be, and how scary, too.

This is exactly my sentiment too (though I live in Manchester and am British Iranian rather than British Indian).

My cousin works in Canary Wharf for one of the big banks and one of his colleagues (young, intelligent Indian girl who pledges 10% of her salary to UK charities) didn't go to work on Friday because she felt that she'd be harassed by the people in her LEAVE area who had become more aggressive towards her over the past weeks.

Likewise, another friend of mine who came to England to complete his masters degree and subsequently stayed in the UK called last week to say he's started to feel less welcome in this country and people are changing the way they interact with him.

It's sad really. Two of the most intelligent, hard working people I know are being chased out of a country they are supporting (and then some) because of where they're born and the colour of their skin.

I, for one, hope the UK suffers as a result of this referendum because I can't bare to see the uneducated masses sit smugly if this works out. I've already applied for jobs in Paris and Vienna - no way I'm living here given the current social climate.
 
I don't understand how Murdoch is getting away with this. Why are we not in the fecking streets asking for his head? He orchestrated a vote that will benefit hardly anyone except him and a few of his mates, he orchestrated the result, he has a monopoly over the press and he's an all round vile person. He wouldn't even pass the Premier League's fit and proper person test.

We should split that fecker's empire up under EU anti-competition law and show him who's the fecking boss. Bollocks to all these halfwit politicians, that's the only course of action that will actually help the country now.
 
I agree that people should start to try to prepare for the potential challenges ahead and stop the melodrama, yes.

The Tories have screwed us so I do find the blaming of the working class distasteful but the now hard left haven't helped a jot by rendering the credible left politically impotent.

It was said all through the rise of Corbyn that his leadership would hand the country to the right. Here you have it.

I don't read it as such. I think he is saying that a revolt was inevitable as some people feel their situation cannot worsen. This was just an opportunity to gain ground on the rich elite, albeit misguided.
 
UK was fecked years ago

No it wasn't, Jesus Christ. Go to Brazil or Argentina and try and start a career without having connections, and then tell me the UK's fecked. Go to Afghanistan or Nigeria and just look around, tell me the UK's fecked.

The only thing that did feck the UK years ago was Thatcher's allowing Murdoch to own as much of the British press as he wanted. That would be entirely reversible if nihilistic, ignorant twats weren't seemingly the majority of voters in this country, and were actually willing to try and hold him and the politicians to account.
 
You think Farage is going to go away now?

His whole act will be about ensuring article 50 is triggered and immigration is 'dealt with'. He said as much on Friday.

The longer article 50 is not activated the more traction UKIP will get. A lot of people backed leave based on immigration. EEA membership, complete with free movement, is not gonna be enough for them. If they get betrayed by Boris then, trust me, Farage will be there for them.

Sad but I can see it. And the retards who voted leave are dumb enough to buy the narrative.
 
I don't read it as such. I think he is saying that a revolt was inevitable as some people feel their situation cannot worsen. This was just an opportunity to gain ground on the rich elite, albeit misguided.

Sorry I was referring to this thread with that sentence. There is no way Owen Jones would ever blame the working class for anything!
 
To give an example, someone I work with literally flipped a coin to decide which way to vote (it came up Leave, for what its worth). His vote is worth just as much as anyone elses - as much as mine, as much as the expert economists or those who actually understand the repercussions of this decision. Things like that really do make me question the effectiveness of democracy on issues like this.

I felt this after the GE - not cos of bitterness at the result really, just my own observations. The people I spoke to who voted based on completely spurious reasons quite comfortably outweighed those who knew what they were talking about. Even had a woman at the place I was working at the time, when asked for who she voted for, say "which one is David Cameron's lot again? that one". Mostly it was stuff like "imagine if Milliband was PM with his silly voice, that'd make the us look bad". Democracy isn't democracy if the public are kept uninformed.
 
i think the problem is their has been no social cohesion in the first place, as by in large the rich voted in and the poor voted out.

i think as a country we should be asking why, not blaming not shouting, we have more then enough money in this country to pay decent wages for everyone who wants to work, but we havnt been, the last decade things have got worse and worse and worse for workers rights, with zero hour contracts, constants reshuffles, redundancies, increased automation reducing jobs...... and all the time the rich get richer .....

basically we have abused our working class too much over the last decade, and the price was paid with this vote
 
What I really needed right now was a good few years of stability.

Still, I have always heard good things about Canada...

Exactly Walrus. That's what the entire country needed. I'm with you on emigrating as well, thankfully my job would give me the option of doing that but I know if I did my sister would be devastated. So i'm kind of torn.
 
i think the problem is their has been no social cohesion in the first place, as by in large the rich voted in and the poor voted out.

i think as a country we should be asking why, not blaming not shouting, we have more then enough money in this country to pay decent wages for everyone who wants to work, but we havnt been, the last decade things have got worse and worse and worse for workers rights, with zero hour contracts, constants reshuffles, redundancies, increased automation reducing jobs...... and all the time the rich get richer .....

basically we have abused our working class too much over the last decade, and the price was paid with this vote

Almost like we had a global recession and we're still recovering from it or something like that...
 
Anyone want to help me set up a go-fund-me to put a nice giant cartoon up on a billboard in this welsh town, of some turkeys voting for christmas
“What’s the EU ever done for us?” Zak Kelly, 21, asks me this standing next to a brand new complex of buildings and facilities that wouldn’t look out of place in Canary Wharf. It’s not Canary Wharf, though, it’s Ebbw Vale, a former steel town of 18,000 people in the heart of the Welsh valleys, where 62% of the population – the highest proportion in Wales – voted Leave.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...s-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale

Reads like Sattire
 
I'm a natural Tory voter but won't vote for BJ/Gove. Labour is least credible when it is needed most. Feels like the whole country is ripping itself apart.
My mother is happy- she voted for out, up in E Yorks and says it shows how the rest of the country feels about London, and in turn, the EU.
Feels like we are on the brink of something drastic and bad.
Feel exactly the same. We need a strong left to keep the Tories anchored to the centre right; unfortunately it looks like a sharp turn to the right is coming up with zero alternatives.

Farron looks to be making a move on the pro-EU progressive coalition.
 
Looking for a place to put the billboard on google maps, and the town does look a bit crap to be fair. I'm not sure if that's because the pictures are from 5 years ago though, or just because it's Wales.
 
Looking for a place to put the billboard on google maps, and the town does look a bit crap to be fair. I'm not sure if that's because the pictures are from 5 years ago though, or just because it's Wales.

Nailed it. I live in Shropshire right next to the Welsh border. Wales has been neglected for a long time to be honest, but having said that what are they actually expecting if Brexit does happen? All that's going to happen is their slice of pie is going to shrink yet further because nobody gives a shit about them. The only people who did seem to give a shit was the EU and they've just turned their back on them.

To put it this way, would you expect the Government to put as much finances into ebbw vale?
 
Looking for a place to put the billboard on google maps, and the town does look a bit crap to be fair. I'm not sure if that's because the pictures are from 5 years ago though, or just because it's Wales.

I get the impression that you hate us.
 
I get the impression that you hate us.
I love Wales! I support Wales against against anyone but England.

But I can't believe you voted out... along with Cornwall. Crazy.

Turkeys voting for Christmas :(
 
I think immigrants in UK should make a stance. Like going on strike in their jobs, whatever they might be, for a week.

Just so that all of little Inglund can understand just how crucial they are to the running and maintenance of this country. Priti Patel can run the country on her own.

Other people who sympathise can join too.

If they want an expression of us vs them, they can have it.
 
Almost like we had a global recession and we're still recovering from it or something like that...
fair point,
but you can't expect people not to be angry, people blame the recession on mainly rich bankers, most of whom got away with it, then they see 10 years of the government pandering to the rich to try and get the economy going, hoping that their will be a trickle down affect, which never came, at the same time contracts are getting worse and worse, and more and more stacked in favour of the employer..... all that while you see so few consequences of the recession for the well off.

then you have resentment of immigration, its all very well rich politicians, professors and wealthy business men, telling people immigration helps the economy, but your working class person, just trying to get by, and you see immigrants going for the same job, houses, school places, Dr's as you, then it is natural to think, hey this country can hardly provide for me what it doing letting all these other people in?
you can argue the ethical and economic arguments to that till the cows come home, but rightly or wrongly when your in that position its human nature to harbour resentment, and have to be a pretty special person to look at the bigger picture and say ow well experts say its better for the economy...... most people just arnt that good, and if your not in that position you shouldn't judge, if you are in that position and can put aside your resentment, well your a special person!

im not gonna stand here and say i have a solution, i don't, not even close, lots of people are blaming austerity, but i don't really know of any cases of where spending your way out of the recession worked? (the one people normally site in the roosevelt 'new deal' after the wall street crash, but most economists genrally agree if it was the start of WW2 and the rise of weapons manufacturing demands from europe, that really resurrected the U.S ecconmy.) and right now our government is in so much debt, starting to spend more goes against my simple logic..... but to be honest its in a realm of economics i don't understand.

so i know thier is no simple answer, you need big business and rich people to drive the economy so pandering to them is a necessary evil, but history has proved again and again, if you abuse your working class for to long in a democracy then they will get desperate and turn to anyone who offers them away out. so you have to have some kind of balance, and that has not been their for a long time
 
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I think immigrants in UK should make a stance. Like going on strike in their jobs, whatever they might be, for a week.

Just so that all of little Inglund can understand just how crucial they are to the running and maintenance of this country. Priti Patel can run the country on her own.

Other people who sympathise can join too. I'd they want an expression of us vs them, they can have it.

Would be fascinating to see the numbers if you got people to actually do it.

And if remainers joined them, they might come to realise this isn't much to do with poor vs rich. Lots of remainers are nothing of the sort, including myself, simply confident and outward looking to the world and its problems.
 
Would be fascinating to see the numbers if you got people to actually do it.

And if remainers joined them, they might come to realise this isn't much to do with poor vs rich. Lots of remainers are nothing of the sort, including myself, simply confident and outward looking to the world and its problems.
If it included Brit 2nd generation children to immigrant parents, the number woild approach 10million....
 
Existing immigrants will not be repatriated anyway. A decent number voted Leave as well. 'Were full' seems to be the motivation.
Totally are full up. Ever taken a flight and flew over England? Dare you to find a bit of green grass anywhere.
 
Sad but I can see it. And the retards who voted leave are dumb enough to buy the narrative.

So you make a long post about how you feel "different" and then use the word "retard". My idea of "dumb" is someone who doesn't have the vocabulary or sensitivity to choose a better word than "retard".

That I'm the only person to pick you up on it in over 2 hours really doesn't reflect well on others here.

All this thread shows is that there are ignorant bigots on both sides of the debate. It would serve a lot of people here better if they took a long hard look in the mirror and thought about changing their attitudes towards others, than using abusive language constantly.
 
Totally are full up. Ever taken a flight and flew over England? Dare you to find a bit of green grass anywhere.
I'm sure you are joking, but England is a weird place planning wise.

Lots of "old villages" and "old towns" have been ruined by hundreds or thousands of houses being built creating a clash of periods and a clash of environments. Everyone hates it.

Then you have areas like this.

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This is an area between Ashford and Maidstone along the A20. Between these two towns, there are a few old villages, a few extremely build up areas (especially around Maidstone), but also miles and miles of nothing but farm land.

You could easily fit in 3 or more new villages, or at least hamlets here. They would have good access to train lines (there are train stations all over the place here), access to Europe, access to Maidstone and Ashford and London.

The A20 would be barely affected by the addition of 500 houses, especially if they were build up alongside the A20, but a bit back from it.

And yet, people don't like building new villages on farmland. Okay, I understand why. People prefer building up old villages and towns, which already have a culture, and an environment. They already have primary schools, and shops and plumbing.

And yet, that kills the nice old villages and towns. And people wonder why people get annoyed.
 
Protests by immigrants has never ended well. It'd be the worst move they can make right now.
If they are gonna be abused for 2 years before they get shipped off, I dont see what is to lose.

Leave wanted to rock the boat and send a message. A message should be sent back.
 
If they are gonna be abused for 2 years before they get shipped off, I dont see what is to lose.

Leave wanted to rock the boat and send a message. A message should be sent back.

I dread to think what the answer to that might be in this country at the minute.
 
I would have thought if we started shipping out immigrants that not many countries would want to trade with us. Also our workforce would be cut by a large number and these folk who say they've taken their jobs sure as hell wouldn't work for the wages the immigrants work for.
 
As a left-winger, I find myself in the awkward position of gleeing at the prospect of the numpties in Sunderland and elsewhere getting completely fecked over.

Assuming this madness goes ahead, I'll probably be in the Middle East, Scotland or somewhere else abroad in a few years time, watching the bigots rot with their stupidity. I'll feel bad for the young folk and those who were dragged along with the decision though.
 
So you make a long post about how you feel "different" and then use the word "retard". My idea of "dumb" is someone who doesn't have the vocabulary or sensitivity to choose a better word than "retard".

That I'm the only person to pick you up on it in over 2 hours really doesn't reflect well on others here.

All this thread shows is that there are ignorant bigots on both sides of the debate. It would serve a lot of people here better if they took a long hard look in the mirror and thought about changing their attitudes towards others, than using abusive language constantly.
well said!
 
So you make a long post about how you feel "different" and then use the word "retard". My idea of "dumb" is someone who doesn't have the vocabulary or sensitivity to choose a better word than "retard".

That I'm the only person to pick you up on it in over 2 hours really doesn't reflect well on others here.

All this thread shows is that there are ignorant bigots on both sides of the debate. It would serve a lot of people here better if they took a long hard look in the mirror and thought about changing their attitudes towards others, than using abusive language constantly.


We all noticed it and ignored it as it didn't deserve a reply. It's a common phrase used by the bitter 48%
 
We all noticed it and ignored it as it didn't deserve a reply. It's a common phrase used by the bitter 48%
Who else has used it on here? The caf is full of the bitter 48%, but no one else has said it. It's a common word used by a lot of horrible people.