Solskjaer's legacy and his future

[Skåre Willoch]

What? There was clearly a ton of people on here insisting that Ole was a fraud and that anything like a proper coach who knows his shit would see us improve.

The first press conferences prompted a bunch of posts saying how refreshing it is to have a coach who has a clue about tactics. That narrative has obviously been debunked, but it was there.

Thank you. This is what I felt at the time as well.

We arguably should be doing a lot better with the squad we have – both now, and when Ole was i charge. Yet, now the entire squad is suddenly shit without any hope for the future.
Funny how that works. Before the first game this season we were lauded as a dark horse to win the league because of the recruitment in the summer (Varane, Sancho, Ronaldo) and the total quality of the squad. Now it's suddenly beyond comprehension shit our squad is.

Ole or no Ole - we should be doing better. Firing him was right. But when literally every single manager fails - can it be the problems run a lot deeper?

 

[Salford_Red83]

Solkskjaer was an under qualified, bad manager who should never have got the job full time.
It really is that simple.

The fact that some people still defend him show just how low standards have slipped for some in the fan base.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Wasn't his first press conference more about how he wanted to make us the fittest team, no team should ever work harder than us etc.

Not Ragnicks first press conference, no.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Not Ragnicks first press conference, no.

Oh sorry I thought we were taking about Ole.

As you were.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Aside from Bruno the signings have been super shit under Ole for the money spent. The problem with our transfer model and scouts vs a team like you guys who scout well.

Maguire 80m
Wan Bissaka 50m
Van De Beek 40m
Sancho 70m
Diallo 20m
Ronaldo 30m

300m spent and collectively the re-sale value would be about 100m now, that's where our problem is.

Sancho? And Ronaldo did not cost 30M.

 

[Bennie Blanco]

This. Better managers than him would have failed (and they have).

Ole clearly had his shortcommings as a manager, but its a whole lot more complicated than that.

Maguire, AWB, Shaw, Rashford, Martial to name a few, went from key players to complete trash is the space of a season. Then you have Greenwood being a fecking idiot.

There is something deeply wrong with the club and it goes well beyond the managers. Pretty much all of them have inherited a mess and left behind a mess in a never ending cycle.

Mate, no offense but if you think these players were key players then you're part of the problem.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Mate, no offense but if you think these players were key players then you're part of the problem.

Mate, no offense, but either you're Nostradamus or you're Captain Hindsight himself.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Sancho? And Ronaldo did not cost 30M.

Funny how you can just make up numbers on the fly to back up an argument.

Sancho's resale value alone would be 100m. Our best and most exciting player for weeks now.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Solkskjaer was an under qualified, bad manager who should never have got the job full time.
It really is that simple.

The fact that some people still defend him show just how low standards have slipped for some in the fan base.

Ah, the good old "lowered standards"-argument. I bet you have the highest standards.

 

[Bennie Blanco]

Mate, no offense, but either you're Nostradamus or you're Captain Hindsight himself.

Standards have really really dropped if you ever considered them players good enough to play for this club. That's if you want us to compete for league titles that is.

 

[Polar]

Utter rubbish. I never want to see us play that horrible defensive championship counter attack 6 at the back football again. At least today we tried to attack, out defensive line was just outside Atleticos box.

Disagree. Yesterday was boring like hell. Reminded me of our possession play against poorer teams during Ole’s period. Our transition play was world class and now we almost don’t care when we have the opportunity.

 

[Marwood]

Sneaky? We havent even kicked him yet. He's sti lauded as not so bad by many around here. Ole is the luckiest manager I've seen in my life. The boy had 9 lives here

He got slaughtered on here and in the general media you'll struggle to find another manager criticised so heavily.

He got plenty of stick.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Utter rubbish. I never want to see us play that horrible defensive championship counter attack 6 at the back football again. At least today we tried to attack, out defensive line was just outside Atleticos box. With Ole all out team would be playing in our own half unless we are counter attacking. 3 years and millions spent to play counter shite. He bloody ruined us.

As you say - utter rubbish. We were good/decent for 30 minutes against Atletico. Over 180 minutes of football.

 

[SirAF]

Solkskjaer was an under qualified, bad manager who should never have got the job full time.
It really is that simple.

The fact that some people still defend him show just how low standards have slipped for some in the fan base.

This, 100%.

 

[GueRed]

I was one of the few who were against making Ole permanent boss.

I've said it before. We should've backed Jose Mourinho all the way.

eg. Summer '18 and got shot of Pogba & Martial etc

Woodward & the Glazers were having none of it though

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Standards have really really dropped if you ever considered them players good enough to play for this club. That's if you want us to compete for league titles that is.

You're Nostradamus, then.

I'm not saying they're good enough right now, but for sure there were times I, and many/most others, believed in (some of) these players. If you were one of the people who genuinely never believed in any of them, I don't know what to say. Either you're the most depressing fan on earth, or you're a top football scout making a lot of dough for a CL club. Or you're just Captain Hindsight.

Also; Standards. I'm sure you have the highest of standards. The rest of us are clueless and have low standards.

 

[Raw]

What a waste of time he was.

 

[Chairman Steve]

The ideal scenario in hindsight would have been to not make him permanent after the PSG tie, because it’s a cup game at the end of the day and anything can happen in it like what did happen. We somehow beat PSG just like Boro somehow beat us in the FA Cup this season.

We would have ran out of steam like we did anyway, but there would be no blame attached to Solskjaer because he was just a caretaker and he couldn’t have realistically sustained it anyway.

 

[spiriticon]

I supported Ole but he has definitely left an uncoachable team of prima donnas behind.

 

[Bobcat]

Mate, no offense but if you think these players were key players then you're part of the problem.

Im sorry what? Fact is, they were key players for us in 19/20 and 20/21. Whether or not they are good enough to win a PL title is another discussion, but they were still very much key players

Also, last i checked i dont make any descisions at the club. What i think about them is utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

 

[marktan]

Sancho? And Ronaldo did not cost 30M.

My bad looked it up and it was £20m.

Funny how you can just make up numbers on the fly to back up an argument.

Sancho's resale value alone would be 100m. Our best and most exciting player for weeks now.

Good player but point is we overpayed for him, as with all the other players in the list. No one would pay £50m for him if we put him in the window this summer, absolutely no one. You can value him at 200m if you want but no one's going to pay that. We paid way over the odds for pretty much every player under Ole except for Bruno and Varane and then we wonder why we suck. For the 300m spent on that list if we had a better scouting team we could've signed 8 as good if not better 40m players the way Liverpool do.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

My bad looked it up and it was £20m.


Good player but point is we overpayed for him, as with all the other players in the list. No one would pay £50m for him if we put him in the window this summer, absolutely no one. You can value him at 200m if you want but no one's going to pay that.

You genuinely believe we won't get £50m for Sancho if we put him up for sale in the summer? Give your head a wobble, man.

 

[marktan]

You genuinely believe we won't get £50m for Sancho if we put him up for sale in the summer? Give your head a wobble, man.

I don't want to derail the thread, I'll ask you who would actually pay that and leave it at that. The answer: not a single club.

No one else wanted him at £70m and he's had a worse season than when he was at Dortmund. City - no, Liverpool - no, Chelsea - no, Bayern - no, Barca - no, Real - no.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Not really sure of the point of the thread as we need to move on.

that said his playing legacy is unchanged.


His managerial legacy is non existent. 0 trophies and the team left behind is in my opinion in need of the biggest rebuild of any of our teams post Ferguson. His managerial stay was a complete failure in truth.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I don't want to derail the thread, I'll ask you who would actually pay that and leave it at that. The answer: not a single club.

No one else wanted him at £70m and he's had a worse season than when he was at Dortmund. City - no, Liverpool - no, Chelsea - no, Bayern - no, Barca - no, Real - no.

Getting Sancho is one of the things it's impossible to criticize Ole for. Impossible.

And I do believe most of those clubs you mention would pay 70m for Sancho, never mind 50m. How do you know no one else wanted him? Can it be he simply wanted to play for Man United?

I'm excited for the upcoming transfer window. Who can Rangnick attract? Can his project convince any big guns to play for us? Will he fix the midfield? Will our rebuild finally end this summer?

I hope you can chime in with your evaluation of every signing before they play for us. You seem to be very knowledgable with the highest of standards, so I'll be very interested in your opinion. No hindsight, but before they make their debut.

 

[AneRu]

Yeah half the eejits in here moaning every day were convinced all we needed to do was sack Solskjaer and get a 'proper' manager in and we'd be flying. That narrative changed quickly didn't it.

Rangnick came in and exposed just how rotten, from a mental and application perspective, Ole had allowed things to deteriorate to. However Ole isn't to blame for the way the season has ended, that falls on Murtough and Fletcher who hired an architect to repair a roof leak albeit a major one. Rangnick's terms of reference should have been more to do with long term team building and an interim hired for short term results.

 

[AneRu]

This. Better managers than him would have failed (and they have).

Ole clearly had his shortcommings as a manager, but its a whole lot more complicated than that.

Maguire, AWB, Shaw, Rashford, Martial to name a few, went from key players to complete trash is the space of a season. Then you have Greenwood being a fecking idiot.

There is something deeply wrong with the club and it goes well beyond the managers. Pretty much all of them have inherited a mess and left behind a mess in a never ending cycle.

Leadership, take the Greenwood shit for example, this would have never blown up under Fergie. Yes some of his players were shit bags like Giggs but there is no way he would have let the Greenwood situation escalate to a point where we lose him in the middle of the season - he would either be gone already or he would have nipped it the bud early on. Instead we had Ole and Woodward pampering and feeding into over inflated ego.

Ironically we brought in the man we needed in 2018 as DOF to be manager and now the failure of this season will limit the amount of influence he will have going forward. Whoever thought that bringing Rangnick, a renowned longterm builder, for a short term fix was a good idea deserves to be sacked. The idea to have Rangnick in the building isn't bad but having him in the dugout for six months was never going to work.

 

[R.N7]

Genuinely the worst manager in the history of the football club if you factor in money spent, time wasted, lack of success, unbecoming/cowardly football, lowering of the standards/expectations and shite legacy left behind.

A win against Watford and the cult might have lasted the season, doing even more long term damage.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Leadership, take the Greenwood shit for example, this would have never blown up under Fergie. Yes some of his players were shit bags like Giggs but there is no way he would have let the Greenwood situation escalate to a point where we lose him in the middle of the season - he would either be gone already or he would have nipped it the bud early on. Instead we had Ole and Woodward pampering and feeding into over inflated ego.

Ironically we brought in the man we needed in 2018 as DOF to be manager and now the failure of this season will limit the amount of influence he will have going forward. Whoever thought that bringing Rangnick, a renowned longterm builder, for a short term fix was a good idea deserves to be sacked. The idea to have Rangnick in the building isn't bad but having him in the dugout for six months was never going to work.

Are you serious? The state of this.
No one - and I mean literally no one - could've foreseen Greenwood doing this. Sir Alex accepted Giggs as being a shitbag, why wouldn't he accept the same with Mason? Ole and Woodward pampering him turned him into a sexual predator?! G T F O. That is all on Greenwood. 100%.

"No way he would have let the Greenwood situation escalate to a point where we lose him in the middle of the season".

Do you honestly believe Ole knew the lad is a predator? Do you think Sir Alex would've just "nipped it in the bud"? How?
"Listen, Mason. You have to stop raping and punching your girlfriend right now, we can't afford to lose you in the middle of a season."

 

[Bobcat]

Leadership, take the Greenwood shit for example, this would have never blown up under Fergie. Yes some of his players were shit bags like Giggs but there is no way he would have let the Greenwood situation escalate to a point where we lose him in the middle of the season - he would either be gone already or he would have nipped it the bud early on. Instead we had Ole and Woodward pampering and feeding into over inflated ego.

Ironically we brought in the man we needed in 2018 as DOF to be manager and now the failure of this season will limit the amount of influence he will have going forward. Whoever thought that bringing Rangnick, a renowned longterm builder, for a short term fix was a good idea deserves to be sacked. The idea to have Rangnick in the building isn't bad but having him in the dugout for six months was never going to work.

Come on. Do you think Ole or anyone at the club had any idea this was happening? This isnt a case of a player repetedly going on public benders and not getting disciplined, this happened in private and considering the reaction from his team mates and the club its pretty clear this was unknown to them

 

[Tom Cato]

I don't want to derail the thread, I'll ask you who would actually pay that and leave it at that. The answer: not a single club.

No one else wanted him at £70m and he's had a worse season than when he was at Dortmund. City - no, Liverpool - no, Chelsea - no, Bayern - no, Barca - no, Real - no.

What an awful take. Clubs dont just buy players "because". They buy because of needs and this is especially true for marqueè signings like Sancho was. City didnt have a need, Liverpool didnt have a need, Bayern definitely dont have a need, Barca werent buyers and Real was after Mbappe. And lets not forget Chelsea just came off a colossal spending spree.

We had a a free reign at Sancho because we were the only realistic buyers.

 

[OrcaFat]

I was one of the few who were against making Ole permanent boss.

I've said it before. We should've backed Jose Mourinho all the way.

eg. Summer '18 and got shot of Pogba & Martial etc

Woodward & the Glazers were having none of it though

I agree with the idea that Mou should have been backed. He wanted everything his own way but people who knew far less about football than him overruled him and undermined him. He would have cleared out these lightweights and would have won a lot more, surely. Having said that, some of the football we played under Ole was by far the most enjoyable since SAF.

 

[AltiUn]

Think he might have set us further behind than any other manager in recent memory.

 

[lawliet354]

Genuinely the worst manager in the history of the football club if you factor in money spent, time wasted, lack of success, unbecoming/cowardly football, lowering of the standards/expectations and shite legacy left behind.

A win against Watford and the cult might have lasted the season, doing even more long term damage.

A win? I honestly believe if lost only 2-1 that day Ole would have lasted, that's how low the standard was for him

The whole league cursed Ranieri that day for that scoreline

 

[Salford_Red83]

Ah, the good old "lowered standards"-argument. I bet you have the highest standards.

When it comes to Manchester United and what we expect from them then yes I do, and you should too.

I guess lets just support the manager no matter how bad he is or destructive to the team he gets, because thats what proper fans do eh?

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Nonsense would be you whining in the 9 games left thread about. . . Ole.

Had OgS not fecked up royally to begin the season after ridiculous investment then we wouldn’t have been looking for a manager at a point where most decent ones were in jobs so yes, OgS’s failures led to us hiring RR. That isn’t up for debate.

It's a wierd perspective fella. Ralf isnt a top level coach. Barely even qualifies as a coach. Ole didn't have any say in his hiring. Mentioning ole as the person responsible for his hiring is an agenda driven gaping hole in logic. Made me laugh though so all good

 

[stevoc]

Rangnick came in and exposed just how rotten, from a mental and application perspective, Ole had allowed things to deteriorate to. However Ole isn't to blame for the way the season has ended, that falls on Murtough and Fletcher who hired an architect to repair a roof leak albeit a major one. Rangnick's terms of reference should have been more to do with long term team building and an interim hired for short term results.

More like exacerbated them. It's part of a managers job (especially an interim) to create harmony in a squad, engender confidence and motivate his players, Rangnick sadly seems to have failed on all three counts with most of them.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

When it comes to Manchester United and what we expect from them then yes I do, and you should too.

I guess lets just support the manager no matter how bad he is or destructive to the team he gets, because thats what proper fans do eh?

There's a difference between high and low standards - and entitlement. And you seem to be more entitled than having any sort of "standard".

And if you read my posts, you should know your last part is not me at all. As I said, getting rid of Ole was 100% the right decision.

 

[Red Star One]

It's a wierd perspective fella. Ralf isnt a top level coach. Barely even qualifies as a coach. Ole didn't have any say in his hiring. Mentioning ole as the person responsible for his hiring is an agenda driven gaping hole in logic. Made me laugh though so all good

He never mentioned Ole having his say in hiring Ralf. If it wasn’t for Ole’s full meltdown this season and him being found out big time, we wouldn’t be so desperate in the market for an interim manager. That’s a fact

 

[Crashoutcassius]

He never mentioned Ole having his say in hiring Ralf. If it wasn’t for Ole’s full meltdown this season and him being found out big time, we wouldn’t be so desperate in the market for an interim manager. That’s a fact

Ole isn't responsible for hiring Ralf. It is ridiculous to say so