Solskjaer's legacy and his future

[Foxbatt]

If this team was tactically outplayed, then yes Ralf is responsible. No he set up the team right. You simply cannot go to Liverpool and outplay them. You have to stop them playing. That is why he said that such a high line was never part of the plan and tactics and he does not know why the players suddenly decided to do that. Then they were not willing to put in a fight. Not even a tackle.
As Scholes said, you just go and tackle and kick a couple of players. Not let them dance around you all the time This is all on the players. Managers are not trying to win a charm contest but to be nasty when they have to be. Then level of this team is what we are now. A top half club. Whoever comes in needs to clear all the dead wood brought in by all the managers in the past. Getting rid of Maguire, AWB, and Rashford is going to be very difficult.

 

[Dante]

Gotta love some WUM, this made me chuckle. Obviously his legacy is getting better by a minute - check how highly rated he is outside of United bubble and how many teams line up begging for him to manage them. Also finally those who criticized his transfers are keeping their mouth shut

What's the best position you think a top manager would be able to get out of this squad? 1st? 2nd? 3rd?

If it's 1st, Ole obviously couldn't have done that bad a job with building the squad.

If it's 2nd or 3rd, that's what Ole himself achieved and you'd have to admit he did a good job with those finishes.

Either way, Rangnick is obviously a decent manager himself. And if Ole could outperform him, that shows he wasn't so clueless after all.

 

[Bobcat]

No we can't. Not even a fraction.


And let's keep nailing this drivel about top four finishes on the head. When we finished third under Ole we had 55 points at this same exact point in the season. We're on 54 points, one point worse off. We fluked those league finishes because other top six clubs had nightmarish seasons.

Maguire as bad as hes been, is still an England international. Easily worth 50 million, AWB im confident we can get 30 million for.

And using points as a yardstick from season to season is dumb. You know that. Especially considering we have 8-9 clubs who can make a realistic push for top 4

 

[UnofficialDevil]

He definitely got 3rd and 2nd in consecutive seasons with this squad. You can check it on Wikipedia.

Not this again. Liverpool had 54 points this time last year. 76 this year. Same with Chelsea, we’ve been over this so many times, empty stadiums etc. Ole was absolutely crap, admitting that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a good player for us, nothing wrong with being honest.

 

[Foxbatt]

What's the best position you think a top manager would be able to get out of this squad? 1st? 2nd? 3rd?

If it's 1st, Ole obviously couldn't have done that bad a job with building the squad.

If it's 2nd or 3rd, that's what Ole himself achieved and you'd have to admit he did a good job with those finishes.

Either way, Rangnick is obviously a decent manager himself. And if Ole could outperform him, that shows he wasn't so clueless after all.

Well he has not has he? And we would never know because Ralf is only here for a few months while Ole was given the job halfway thru his interim manager's period. Huge difference when you are only an interim and a full manager.

 

[Foxbatt]

Not this again. Liverpool had 54 points this time last year. 76 this year. Same with Chelsea, we’ve been over this so many times, empty stadiums etc. Ole was absolutely crap, admitting that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a good player for us, nothing wrong with being honest.

Exactly and Jose got 2nd and won two Cups too. Does not mean he was a success. He certainly was better than Ole for sure.

 

[Max_United]

We can argue to death about whether 2nd and 3rd finishes were an achievement, but I have never heard any explanation from Ole defenders as to why he is now only being considered for jobs in Scottish and Scandinavian leagues. If he did any sort of good or even decent job at United, he should not have any problems finding a job much better than that and the likes of Aberdeen etc should consider him way above their league. But it seems that nobody outside a part of our fan base really thinks that he is anywhere close to PL level manager even. What do they see that the entire world does not?

 

[matsdf]

Exactly and Jose got 2nd and won two Cups too. Does not mean he was a success. He certainly was better than Ole for sure.

No one, literally no one has claimed that Ole was a success, so what the feck is your point?

 

[matsdf]

We can argue to death about whether 2nd and 3rd finishes were an achievement, but I have never heard any explanation from Ole defenders as to why he is now only being considered for jobs in Scottish and Scandinavian leagues. If he did any sort of good or even decent job at United, he should not have any problems finding a job much better than that and the likes of Aberdeen etc should consider him way above their league. But it seems that nobody outside a part of our fan base really thinks that he is anywhere close to PL level manager even. What do they see that the entire world does not?

Ole expressed that his goal as a manager was to manage Man Utd. He did that, and failed. Even if he was offered another PL gig, he probably wouldn't take it.

Ole outperformed Lampard on about every metric there is, and he was still offered the Everton job...

 

[hobbers]

Maguire as bad as hes been, is still an England international. Easily worth 50 million, AWB im confident we can get 30 million for.

And using points as a yardstick from season to season is dumb. You know that. Especially considering we have 8-9 clubs who can make a realistic push for top 4

If you really think we could get those sorts of figures for either then you really dont understand anything about football transfers. We'd struggle to get rid of AWB on a free transfer

And no, comparing league finishes without context is demonstrably dumb. League points at least allows a rough comparison between seasons regardless of how other teams performed. We had a fecking shocking season when we finished third under Ole. Hideous results, hideous football. That's why we were on 55 points with 5 games to go. Same as now. 66 points is normally not good enough for top four let alone third.

 

[Max_United]

Ole expressed that his goal as a manager was to manage Man Utd. He did that, and failed. Even if he was offered another PL gig, he probably wouldn't take it.

Ole outperformed Lampard on about every metric there is, and he was still offered the Everton job...

Well if Ole does not want to manage in PL - he would be coveted by clubs from other top leagues if he was any good. But he isn't.

Lampard had a relatively successful spell in championship with Derby, Ole failed at championship level. Both failed at top clubs but at least Lampard was under transfer ban. Overall, their relative championship performance is the main differentiator. I personally do not think Lampard is better than Ole, but you can see why he still got another chance in PL at a smaller club and Ole probably wouldn't even if wanted.

 

[elnorte]

It's strange that people still cannot quite grasp that both the previous manager and current players being utterly abysmal are not mutually exclusive concepts.

 

[anant]

No we can't. Not even a fraction.


And let's keep nailing this drivel about top four finishes on the head. When we finished third under Ole we had 55 points at this same exact point in the season. We're on 54 points, one point worse off. We fluked those league finishes because other top six clubs had nightmarish seasons.

The team had played against all big 6 sides by this time. I dont see how this team will finish with more than even 62 points.

And it's a league. How do you fluke a league position for 2 seasons - A season sure, but if it's 2 seasons, it's not luck especially considering we were among the top 4 side by every metric

 

[Bobcat]

If you really think we could get those sorts of figures for either then you really dont understand anything about football transfers. We'd struggle to get rid of AWB on a free transfer

And no, comparing league finishes without context is demonstrably dumb. League points at least allows a rough comparison between seasons regardless of how other teams performed. We had a fecking shocking season when we finished third under Ole. Hideous results, hideous football. That's why we were on 55 points with 5 games to go. Same as now. 66 points is normally not good enough for top four let alone third.

Come on. I know people like to shit on AWB but hes clearly not that bad.

Everyone besides Liverpool were abysmal that season, but with Covid and playing about half the season in empty stadiums you cant really draw any big conclusions one way or the other. The arrival of Bruno also had a massive impact on our points haul, as before that we were playing either Mata or fecking Pereira as our creative outlet in the middle.

Its not really the point though. The point is that its pretty daft to blame a previous manager for our current malaise when hes been gone for 6 months. Especially when the leading narrative was that we had a good squad, but was held back by tactics/coaching/organization/structure or whatever, the very same posters singing praise for Tuchel about how he had an instant impact on Chelsea.

And i dont blame RR either. Imo, hes not really a manager and his track record shows hes much better suited as a technical/sporting director and personally i think we would be mental to let him go. Lastly, the problems we have runs far, far deeper than whoever is the manager. The whole club is rotten to its core. Just pinning the blame on the manager and then hoping the next one can solve all our issues is insane imo and if we keep doing that we wont get anywhere

 

[laughtersassassin]

I wonder how much guilt he feels? Hopefully a lot. He wasted 3 seasons and set us back further while doing it.

Obviously it's not his fault he was given the job but he very surely knew he wasn't good enough.

Should have not accepted the permanent job. And after he did he should have stepped aside at the first sign of failure

 

[::sonny::]

It has been useless sacking, similar results after his sack (even worse in my opinion)

 

[R'hllor]

Is it me or weirdos trying hard to push narative how Ole is/was in the same situation as Ralf? Like "Now you see with what kind of players Ole worked, props to him for everything he managed to achieve with them"

He is the one who actually signed those motherfeckers, money spent on transfers and their wages, under him they got their contract extensions, he is the one who was calling them Billy, Willy, Bobby, Jinxy, Rashy, Washy. He is the one who gave captaincy to someone who joined United 5 minutes before that, hello, fecker just joined and became a captain 5 min later, knows whats United its DNA all about, they said.

So no, they were not in the same situation, RR inherit Ole`s squad that was built for 3 years and XXXmil. spent, a squad that isnt fit to press more than 7 minutes, thanks to Ole`s "work", not to mention struggles in final third for past 2-3 years on top of zero trophies.

I mean what the feck is this shit , oh also miss me with your out of context league positions, only thing we got from those CL participations is that premature thread about Ole fecking hipster managers which ended in tears at the end.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

It was obvious that Ole was out of depth as a manager but I also feel like everyone was way too quick to scapegoat him when it was obvious that the issues were way more than just the coach.
By changing him, we changed nothing. In some aspects, we are actually even worse.

In the space of 2/3 years, 90% of this team needs to be gone since I don't expect a wipeout in 1 single summer window (I wouldn't complain that much if that happened tho).

 

[BulgarianDevil91]

I've always been supportive of every United manager in the post SAF era. I really thought Ole has the club's best interest in his actions - the football at the start of his spell was fast-paced and a bit more direct, he managed to get rid of some of the deadwood, he got some, allegedly, good players in and had an idea of how he wanted things to go. Got us to the UEL final as well, which I appreciate. Saying all that, I realize it's only been good feom the outside. He knew what was brewing behind the curtains, he was well aware of all the shite both the players and the higher-ups were up to and did nothing to try and improve the situation. In the end, all he did was praise the boys. I feel dumb having come to this realization, but such is life.

Now I value Rangnick's honesty even more. I hope it's not all talk, I really want to believe he has the club as his main priority and is not doing all this just to play preted. Hope I'm not proven wrong by him as well when I come back to this post in a few years.

 

[Idxomer]

Not this again. Liverpool had 54 points this time last year. 76 this year. Same with Chelsea, we’ve been over this so many times, empty stadiums etc. Ole was absolutely crap, admitting that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a good player for us, nothing wrong with being honest.

It will mean they were wrong all these years defending him, can't have that here.

 

[hobbers]

Its not really the point though. The point is that its pretty daft to blame a previous manager for our current malaise when hes been gone for 6 months. Especially when the leading narrative was that we had a good squad, but was held back by tactics/coaching/organization/structure or whatever, the very same posters singing praise for Tuchel about how he had an instant impact on Chelsea

Not at all given that he signed these players, or made these players key parts of his plans and approved their contract extensions. And he left behind a squad more mentally unfit than it was after Jose left, and more physically unfit than any United squad in the PL era. There's plenty more people than just Ole to blame but he deserves a big share of it for being such an inept manager and willing Glazer patsy.

The only reason he's being relentlessly criticised here is because of the cuckoo cultists of his who keep periodically popping up and coming out with delusional nonsense, like how our results under Ralf are proof of what a good manager he actually was.

It's all irrelevant now anyway. If we want to analyse how the football world views Ole's job here there's plenty of indications. Just look at how Everton gave someone as questionable as Lampard a job in the most desperate circumstances. But had any Everton board member suggested Ole instead they'd have been laughed out of the room. The guy isn't even deemed good enough for the SPL. That's how bad a manager he is and that is his legacy as a manager.

 

[RopersReturn]

“There's plenty more people than just Ole to blame but he deserves a big share of it for being such an inept manager and willing Glazer patsy.”

This sentence pretty much sums up all you need to understand about the affect Ole had on the club.

 

[Vaultech]

It was obvious that Ole was out of depth as a manager but I also feel like everyone was way too quick to scapegoat him when it was obvious that the issues were way more than just the coach.
By changing him, we changed nothing. In some aspects, we are actually even worse.

In the space of 2/3 years, 90% of this team needs to be gone since I don't expect a wipeout in 1 single summer window (I wouldn't complain that much if that happened tho).

Ole is a joke of a manager and too arrogant to learn good football managerial approaches. Bad managers deserve all the criticism they get until they are willing to learn and improve.

Ole refused to improve, and all the criticism towards him are perfectly legit.

 

[Foxbatt]

It was obvious that Ole was out of depth as a manager but I also feel like everyone was way too quick to scapegoat him when it was obvious that the issues were way more than just the coach.
By changing him, we changed nothing. In some aspects, we are actually even worse.

In the space of 2/3 years, 90% of this team needs to be gone since I don't expect a wipeout in 1 single summer window (I wouldn't complain that much if that happened tho).

No we are not. Now we have seen what needs to be done to get out of this rut. With Ole it would be still the same. We would still be spending millions on people like Maguire, AWB and DVB etc. And give my Rashy a new bumper contract for just turning up on match day and play every game no matter how bad he is.

 

[Greck]

I'm rolling at these replies saying he was working magic with this squad right after a tie he also got thrashed in. Safe to say the biggest apologists won't be picking up any Nobel prizes in this life or next.

How do you build an attacking team that capitulates against counters? Teams just waltz through our middle. We aren't functionally built to attack and it reflects the work of a total newbie. These issues also became painfully obvious in the mirror tie he lost 5-0.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Ralf has been a big disappointment but, at the end of the day, he is a caretaker managing someone else‘s squad. Ole was given the opportunity and funds over 3 years to engineer a comprehensive rebuilding of the squad and did not manage to make one signing who is unquestionably good enough (including Bruno Fernandes).

 

[Foxbatt]

The problem was our 2nd place in the league. Everyone kept saying that this is our year and Ole thought yeah we need to play on the front foot. So he changed a winning system against the top teams and he found out that he couldn't beat the top teams by attacking them and the smaller clubs were shutting up shop and hitting us on the counter. He simply didn't have the nous to change it.
He was a horrible manager.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

His legacy is what I always feared, 3 years & a feck tonne of money wasted.

 

[Kush]

Not at all given that he signed these players, or made these players key parts of his plans and approved their contract extensions. And he left behind a squad more mentally unfit than it was after Jose left, and more physically unfit than any United squad in the PL era. There's plenty more people than just Ole to blame but he deserves a big share of it for being such an inept manager and willing Glazer patsy.

The only reason he's being relentlessly criticised here is because of the cuckoo cultists of his who keep periodically popping up and coming out with delusional nonsense, like how our results under Ralf are proof of what a good manager he actually was.

It's all irrelevant now anyway. If we want to analyse how the football world views Ole's job here there's plenty of indications. Just look at how Everton gave someone as questionable as Lampard a job in the most desperate circumstances. But had any Everton board member suggested Ole instead they'd have been laughed out of the room. The guy isn't even deemed good enough for the SPL. That's how bad a manager he is and that is his legacy as a manager.

Fantastic post.

I'm sure his fans will find a way to spin this as a negative.

 

[led_scholes]

Hilarious. I can't believe you lot are still trying to pin it on the guy who got 2nd and 3rd with pretty much this set of players. Where is the logic that the person who objectively performed better is the one who is at fault? What happened to "this team should be challenging" and "any decent manager would be doing better"? I'm sure the expectations for this season thread is still around somewhere, I wonder how many were saying we'd be losing in the rat race for 4th?

Also, you do know that after Ole, Carrick actually did a lot to stabilise the club and put us on something of an even keel, with his three games being Chelsea, Villarreal and Arsenal? We were 2 or 3 points off fourth when RR came in, and were coming into our easiest run of the season (a run which I am absolutely positive Ole would have done better with), and what has been the end result? All Ralf had to do was to keep things ticking over, and on that front he has abjectly failed.

I think at a time like this, this Twitter thread is perfect reading:



So many of those sentiments have been apparent in this thread from the start, and so many of them have been disproven, and yet, just like the Twitter accounts, almost all of you are stubborn to admit you were perhaps a tad harsh on the last guy and are consistently shifting the goalposts.

Was Watford or Leicester hard teams? Yet they embarrassed us.

If you were abramovich you would still have Di Matteo as a coach, because your approach has no context. Btw, Jose came second and Ole bottled it in the end with top 4 the next season. So, why not still have Jose here? He would have won against huddersfield. I m doing it right?

 

[anant]

Was Watford or Leicester hard teams? Yet they embarrassed us.

If you were abramovich you would still have Di Matteo as a coach, because your approach has no context. Btw, Jose came second and Ole bottled it in the end with top 4 the next season. So, why not still have Jose here? He would have won against huddersfield. I m doing it right?

People really need to stop using a few off games to make a point. I know this is what aboutism, but I think every big team has had a few embarassing losses - Tuchel is not a shit coach because they conceded 5 to WBA and 4 to Brentford. Look at the things from a wider lens

 

[Forevergiggs1]

It has been useless sacking, similar results after his sack (even worse in my opinion)

It's been anything but useless. Ralf has come in and stirred up a hornets nest on actually how gutless our players really are. This cultural reboot we kept hearing about was in no way sustainable which is why we're in the shit we're in present day. That blueprint is about to be ripped up by people who actually know what they're doing instead of winging it for the last decade. Rangnick has been the best thing that's happened to this club since RVP.

There were always going to be teething problems changing from jobs for the boys to a professionally run club but short term pain for long term gain will be absolutely worth it and if people can't see that then the problem is on them.

 

[Red4Ever]

Not at all given that he signed these players, or made these players key parts of his plans and approved their contract extensions. And he left behind a squad more mentally unfit than it was after Jose left, and more physically unfit than any United squad in the PL era. There's plenty more people than just Ole to blame but he deserves a big share of it for being such an inept manager and willing Glazer patsy.

The only reason he's being relentlessly criticised here is because of the cuckoo cultists of his who keep periodically popping up and coming out with delusional nonsense, like how our results under Ralf are proof of what a good manager he actually was.

It's all irrelevant now anyway. If we want to analyse how the football world views Ole's job here there's plenty of indications. Just look at how Everton gave someone as questionable as Lampard a job in the most desperate circumstances. But had any Everton board member suggested Ole instead they'd have been laughed out of the room. The guy isn't even deemed good enough for the SPL. That's how bad a manager he is and that is his legacy as a manager.

this x 1000

 

[Red4Ever]

People really need to stop using a few off games to make a point. I know this is what aboutism, but I think every big team has had a few embarassing losses - Tuchel is not a shit coach because they conceded 5 to WBA and 4 to Brentford. Look at the things from a wider lens

the wider Lens includes liverpool & city plus poor draws & bad form from august in CL & prem

he deserved the sack & he left us in a mess

 

[anant]

the wider Lens includes liverpool & city plus poor draws & bad form from august in CL & prem

he deserved the sack & he left us in a mess

And no one has said that he didn't deserve the sacking.

 

[ti vu]

It was obvious that Ole was out of depth as a manager but I also feel like everyone was way too quick to scapegoat him when it was obvious that the issues were way more than just the coach.
By changing him, we changed nothing. In some aspects, we are actually even worse.

In the space of 2/3 years, 90% of this team needs to be gone since I don't expect a wipeout in 1 single summer window (I wouldn't complain that much if that happened tho).

Your two points contradict each other.

We already know the issue run deep, and into higher positions from the moment Ole got appointed as permanent manager. That doesn't mean we should keep Ole to maintain the vibe, why we restructure. The manager is still the most influential person for how the team perform. You can scout players the whole years, but you only have 2 window in a calendar year to make deal. And very rarely you're the only club interested in certain player.

So coaching a playing identity, squad management are still the number one priority. You may not get result, but at least show some competence, and promise. Ole had overstayed his welcome, and he had fair share of responsibility in this mess of squad building. He has no CV to back it up, yet was given so much money to spend.

RR may be failing at coaching part (not his team. It's Ole team. Failing to have your own team perform is more damning), too but he's putting his reputation on the line by making honest assessment of the state of our squad, and recruitment approach. You can't even ask that from Ole. Ole was supposed to carry out the cultural reset of Mourinho squad. It wouldn't take 90% of the squad back then. Now post Ole, it's reasonable to assume a whole squad overhaul would require.

 

[hammerfadl]

There seems to be alot of "black and white" opinions going, that it's either 100% good or 100% bad. I think there is a middle ground when it comes to Ole. He did good and he did bad, but in a top club where you want to be among the best you need someone who does alot more good than bad. Ole didn't, and he never had the skills to do so.

Oles team came 3rd then 2nd, and isolated those finishing positions are good. It doesn't mean everything was getting better. Considering how a league position also relies on the performance of the other teams in the league one can't judge on-pitch improvement purely on the league positioning. Mourinho finished 6th in 16/17th but with 3 points more than Solskjaer did with his 3rd place. He drew 3 matches Solskjaer lost, but due to the performance of other teams people judge Solskjaers more successful?

Ole was the first manager post SAF to finish two consecutive seasons in top 4. He was also the first manager since Moyes to not improve on the performances of the previous manager. That doesn't automatically make him the worst post SAF, it just means Mourinho raised the bar to a level Solskjaer couldn't manage. Looking purely at the results of every game during the season, ignoring trophies or league positions, Mourinho won the most and lost the least. Solskjaers two full seasons were both better than LvG and Moyes seasons looking at points pr game and win rate, but they were well behind Mourinho. Solskjaers best season had a total win-rate of 57,38% while Mourinho reached 66,07% in his 2nd season. Even Mourinhos first season had a win-rate of 57,81%.

Ole was also the first manager post SAF to have a worse goal difference in his 2nd full season compared to his 1st. His defensive record in his 2nd season is the worst any manager had in a full season (Moyes included) post SAF, and by a good margin. This doesn't fit the "things were going the right way" so I rarely, if ever, see it mentioned. When you spend 150m+ on defensive signings that is not the way it should go if you do it right. Of course he also delivered the most goals offensively post SAF, but for every goal he increased offensively it cost almost 2 defensively. So the bad far outweighted the good.

This season Ole was the first manager post SAF to record a negative goal difference for the games he managed during a season. Also being the first to loose as many as he won.

Looking at Rangnick I find it funny how many of the same who defended Ole and said "time, he needs time" are on Ralfs back quickly due to things not working out immediately. Granted, the results have been poor, the win rate is as bad as Mourinhos last half season. But its improved from what was served from Solskjaer this year. The win rate is as good as equal but where Solskjaer lost a staggering 41,18% of the games, Rangnick "only" looses 25%. Offensively the avg goals pr game is equal, while defence has gone from shipping 1,71(!) pr game to 1,50. Still a high number, way to high for a Man Utd team. Rangnick has been dealt a poor hand and he haven't been able to improve it on the pitch. Hopefully the hornets nest hes shaken about off the pitch will improve the club for the future.

I think the legacy of Solskjaer will be that he did a ok job as a interim. Came in and turned the mood after Mourinhos toxicity, but should never have been given the job on a permanent basis. (His point pr game in the interim season was lower than both of LvGs seasons, just marginally better than Moyes)
He came in and promised a whole lot of changes, but could only deliver on a few of those, leaving behind a toxic unfit/lazy squad that needs a total and fundamental rebuild.

 

[Bobcat]

Not at all given that he signed these players, or made these players key parts of his plans and approved their contract extensions. And he left behind a squad more mentally unfit than it was after Jose left, and more physically unfit than any United squad in the PL era. There's plenty more people than just Ole to blame but he deserves a big share of it for being such an inept manager and willing Glazer patsy.

The only reason he's being relentlessly criticised here is because of the cuckoo cultists of his who keep periodically popping up and coming out with delusional nonsense, like how our results under Ralf are proof of what a good manager he actually was.

It's all irrelevant now anyway. If we want to analyse how the football world views Ole's job here there's plenty of indications. Just look at how Everton gave someone as questionable as Lampard a job in the most desperate circumstances. But had any Everton board member suggested Ole instead they'd have been laughed out of the room. The guy isn't even deemed good enough for the SPL. That's how bad a manager he is and that is his legacy as a manager.

But out of the players he signed, only Maguire sticks out as a problem right now. A lot of fans points to Ronaldo as a huge problem which i cant fathom myself. Where would we be this season without him? Who would have scored our goals? Rashford?

Regarding their "mental fitness" i dont disagree. It went straight to hell this season and it has shown on the pitch. Outside of the opening games it seemed most of them couldnt even be bothered. The thing is though, Ole raised these concernes publically often and got laughed at as some kind of simpelton because apparently putting in the effort is some kind of outdated nonsense and just pandering to the fans. Ralf said pretty much exactly the same after Liverpool but this problem is far from new. It was the same under Lvg and the same under Jose. There is a toxic culture in the dressing room and it seems under Ralf its been that way since the start.

Ole did not solve it, but he didnt create it either. The squad threw LvG under the bus, they threw Jose under the bus, they threw Ole under the bus, they are throwing Ralf under the bus and im pretty sure they will throw ETH under the bus as well. They're a bunch of arrogant, lazy, overpaid plonkers. There is no fight, no desire, no pride

You might claim Ole made them this way by being to lenient, but the same happened with Jose and he does not take any shit from his players. So it seems it's irrelevant what man managment approach the manager has. Eventually we find a way to go back to putting in the minimum amount of effort.

 

[Dante]

There seems to be alot of "black and white" opinions going, that it's either 100% good or 100% bad. I think there is a middle ground when it comes to Ole. He did good and he did bad, but in a top club where you want to be among the best you need someone who does alot more good than bad. Ole didn't, and he never had the skills to do so.

Oles team came 3rd then 2nd, and isolated those finishing positions are good. It doesn't mean everything was getting better. Considering how a league position also relies on the performance of the other teams in the league one can't judge on-pitch improvement purely on the league positioning. Mourinho finished 6th in 16/17th but with 3 points more than Solskjaer did with his 3rd place. He drew 3 matches Solskjaer lost, but due to the performance of other teams people judge Solskjaers more successful?

Ole was the first manager post SAF to finish two consecutive seasons in top 4. He was also the first manager since Moyes to not improve on the performances of the previous manager. That doesn't automatically make him the worst post SAF, it just means Mourinho raised the bar to a level Solskjaer couldn't manage. Looking purely at the results of every game during the season, ignoring trophies or league positions, Mourinho won the most and lost the least. Solskjaers two full seasons were both better than LvG and Moyes seasons looking at points pr game and win rate, but they were well behind Mourinho. Solskjaers best season had a total win-rate of 57,38% while Mourinho reached 66,07% in his 2nd season. Even Mourinhos first season had a win-rate of 57,81%.

Ole was also the first manager post SAF to have a worse goal difference in his 2nd full season compared to his 1st. His defensive record in his 2nd season is the worst any manager had in a full season (Moyes included) post SAF, and by a good margin. This doesn't fit the "things were going the right way" so I rarely, if ever, see it mentioned. When you spend 150m+ on defensive signings that is not the way it should go if you do it right. Of course he also delivered the most goals offensively post SAF, but for every goal he increased offensively it cost almost 2 defensively. So the bad far outweighted the good.

This season Ole was the first manager post SAF to record a negative goal difference for the games he managed during a season. Also being the first to loose as many as he won.

Looking at Rangnick I find it funny how many of the same who defended Ole and said "time, he needs time" are on Ralfs back quickly due to things not working out immediately. Granted, the results have been poor, the win rate is as bad as Mourinhos last half season. But its improved from what was served from Solskjaer this year. The win rate is as good as equal but where Solskjaer lost a staggering 41,18% of the games, Rangnick "only" looses 25%. Offensively the avg goals pr game is equal, while defence has gone from shipping 1,71(!) pr game to 1,50. Still a high number, way to high for a Man Utd team. Rangnick has been dealt a poor hand and he haven't been able to improve it on the pitch. Hopefully the hornets nest hes shaken about off the pitch will improve the club for the future.

I think the legacy of Solskjaer will be that he did a ok job as a interim. Came in and turned the mood after Mourinhos toxicity, but should never have been given the job on a permanent basis. (His point pr game in the interim season was lower than both of LvGs seasons, just marginally better than Moyes)
He came in and promised a whole lot of changes, but could only deliver on a few of those, leaving behind a toxic unfit/lazy squad that needs a total and fundamental rebuild.

I don't think anybody is saying it was 100% good. The people who are defending Ole's record are saying that he did both positive and negative things.

It's the people on the other other side who think it was 100% bad and are refusing to acknowledge any credit he deserved for his league finishes, for instance.

 

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