Two completely different Pep sides, though this City team much better in quality compared it to us, we still managed better second half with goal less.
Some praise for Jose
- Thread starter TheReligion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I'll tell you one very obvious positive effect Jose is having and it's the form of our central defenders. His teams have always had top class central defenders and I'm starting to think he's a big factor in that. Injuries have forced a lot of chopping and changing but he does seem to be getting the best out of whoever starts in central defence. The only exception, arguably, is Smalling. But I'm sure they'll patch up their differences and we'll see beast mode Mike from last season soon enough.
This is the start of what he is trying to build. Our peformances this year compared to last year are night and day. Going forward we look like we can score at any time last year we never looked like scoring. ever. the team seems to be geling well and can only get better from here he has managed players well in my opinion some needed toughening up some needed to be protected we don't know what's going on behind closed doors but seems to be working because the players seem to care now and nights like last night seem to be enjoying themselves. At times United are beautiful to watch and it's not even Christmas yet. by the end of the season I think we will be flying. he deserves some credit.
We've been watching the same games completely different mate. Lost the ball the first 5-7 times he got it against City. Whatever you think he made happen in the City game, I'm failing to see. Even if he created half a chance, it'd still be terrible compared to the balls he lost. 0 goals, 0 assists. And 0 shots, even off goal against City. You've also written "in the city games", suggesting that there's two games against City he's been involved in. He was only involved in 45 minutes in PrL.
Against Hull, he had promise, but was inconsistent too. I had to refresh my memory, so I took a look back on all his actions. He had two good dribbles, one where he was faulted by Huddlestone, going past some players - Showed some signs of the Dortmund Mkhi. And one that lead to a free-kick just outside the box. Nice and all, but then take a look at the terrible efforts on goal. Two shots that's slowly running into the keepers hands, and a goal-opportunity where he thinks he has time to stop and shoot instead of just hitting it first time. He also gave the ball away a little too easily on some occasions - Clearly not where he was supposed to be. Had the except same trades from the City game, suggesting that he hadn't improved in that aspect. I can understand your sentiment of trying to play a player into form with regular game-time, but of course, I can understand that Mou didn't just give him the next couple of games - pretty important games, when you think back to the pressure Mou was under. Why take such a chance, considering his game against City?
Your other 'honest' question I think is too limited and speculative. Any player can come off bad, and any player can come off great from the bench, so it's hard to make any case that this is something all players would struggle with. If you asked me the same question with Rashford or Chicharito, you could argument the other way.
What I think is more important is that Mkhi seems to need to get used to the physical aspects of british football - Over time he will probably cope better, but he's been too easily brushed away under pressure. Had great games recently, but this is something he needs to work with. Seems he has gotten used to the pace now.
I meant Hull City not Man City. And yeah we must've been watching different games. There is nothing wrong with having efforts on goal like he did against Hull. Zlatan and Pogba are the biggest culprits for poor efforts on goal in our squad. I don't remember him giving the ball away much in that game but certainly cannot be more than Zlatan usually does or any player in fact. The Hull and City games were chalk and cheese so maybe we were watching different games. City he looked like a deer in headlights, vs Hull he looked like he was confident and wanted to be the game changer. I disagree with the whole physical aspect of British football. The amount of times I have seen Zlatan get shoved off and lose the ball when dropping deep. I actually believe Miki is quite strong and shields the ball well like Suarez. to me its just cliché.
EDIT: I don't know why you decided to include that video as to me it supports my point. He looked very good and didn't look like he could not cope with the "physicality" of English football
So Jose deserves credit for getting Martial to play at the level he was at last season before he took over? I'm surprised the OP doesn't praise Mourinho for his amazing management of Schweinsteiger which led to his lively 5 minute cameo last night.
They're not, though
This thread was made specifically off the back of one game.
Or is it just a complete coincidence that it was made after our best performance of the season in which all players mentioned in the op had their best performances for us?
It's the absolute, complete definition of 'kneejerk'. It's just that when people make positive kneejerk threads they seem to think that it excuses it from being kneejerk.
so much arse licking of Jose here.....yawn. However he did show balls because he changed the formation to a fergie esque 4411 last night and hey presto.....not rocket science.
No its a knee-jerk reaction to say "we're back, we will win the league, we're the best"
Its a fair assessment to say that the players who were singled out for (fair) criticism have clearly taken it on board and played as if they have a point to prove.
A knee-jerk reaction isn't confined to one particular scenario.
I never said it was, I was giving an example of what a knee-jerk reaction to last night's result might look like.
Instead people are pointing out that players who were criticized reacted well. That is not a knee jerk.
But that's simplifying it to the extreme.
The op was saying that we should praise Jose for his wonderful man management of all these players based on one game. Ergo, it's completely kneejerk.
If he said that "we should praise his man management if they continue to play well in the next few months" then it wouldn't have been kneejerk.
Hell, when I asked him if the thread would still be valid if they got benched at the weekend or got dropped if they play badly he couldn't even give a response and spouted some 'time machine' tripe.
Except for the fact he never said its based on one game. Its you who keeps going on about one game.
No. I just looked at the bigger picture.
Wit regards to the other comments about his tenure at clubs he's at United for the long term. He's said that much himself and his family is settled in England. If we want him he'll be here for a while so most people accept he has a fair bit of work to do.
It's like talking to a brick wall. I wouldn't bother unless you've brought Jose's Black and Decker.
The notion we as fans might give 'some praise' to the manager seems to make a few come out in a rash.
Let's run this over.
He made the thread after a game in which Martial, Mkhi, and Rooney all started and all played well.
When has this happened before in the season?
Has it happened in more than one game?
It doesn't matter if he was or was not talking about one game, this thread is only relevant to one game. Until now these players have either been dropped, on the fringes, or completely out of the squad.
Mkhi played great last week, and Rooney played pretty good, and both were on the bench at the weekend. Martial wasn't even in the squad. If that happens again this weekend, is this thread still justified?
Don't you think maybe, given what's happened with these three players recently, that a little bit of patience should be given before praising Jose for transforming them? Or is one really good game enough to say that he's worked wonders with the three of them and everything he did in the past is justified?
It's just one game. Even Moyes is going to have at least one fantastic game this season. Awesome result, nothing special.
That's man management, manager evaluates when that and that player is ready to play. For instance Rooney was benched and now has raised his form. Him being good has happened more than one time too.
What was exactly different in that supposed 4411 formation as opposed to formation we played until now?
This thread. The number of United fans criticising the manager is just incredible. There have been huge signs of improvement this season. The team has played some superb football and last night's performance was top class with 4 quality goals scored.
Mkhitaryan was absolutely superb. His attacking quality was fantastic but also his pressing game and defensive discipline was great. I cannot believe fans criticising Mourinho's management of him. He wouldn't even be at the club if Mourinho wasn't the manager.
Management of a top class team is more than picking the most talented 11 players every week. It's about setting standards that those players have to reach in order to be in the team. Getting players out of their comfort zone so they play at their optimum every game.
The defence is looking really well drilled too. Jones and Rojo are about as error prone a combination as you could find but they have been really solid in recent weeks.
Mourinho (like him or not) is a top class manager and as a team United are playing better than they have at any time since Fergie was manager. I understand the guff from the press and opposition fans due to results but I struggle to see how any United fan can watch the team this season and doesn't see an improvement.
Mkhitaryan was absolutely superb. His attacking quality was fantastic but also his pressing game and defensive discipline was great. I cannot believe fans criticising Mourinho's management of him. He wouldn't even be at the club if Mourinho wasn't the manager.
Management of a top class team is more than picking the most talented 11 players every week. It's about setting standards that those players have to reach in order to be in the team. Getting players out of their comfort zone so they play at their optimum every game.
The defence is looking really well drilled too. Jones and Rojo are about as error prone a combination as you could find but they have been really solid in recent weeks.
Mourinho (like him or not) is a top class manager and as a team United are playing better than they have at any time since Fergie was manager. I understand the guff from the press and opposition fans due to results but I struggle to see how any United fan can watch the team this season and doesn't see an improvement.
Well not like SAF never had any tough love for our players but he did it more in private but I still remember the odd player that had a few attitude problems being frozen out for a good amount of games every now and then.
The thing is it works on some and doesn't on others but I guess having a club full of fighters is a good thing as opposed to a club full of players that pack their things and run off the next club as soon as they are in a bit of rough waters.
Now if he can also get something out of Memphis then surely he's the greatest man manager of all time!
Well posted.
Since when did I say otherwise? What we're debating is whether it's good or bad man management.I fear you're missing the point of a forum.Stop hi-jacking this thread.
Still harping on. It gets boring very quickly
For some its a good management which this thread is about.
Hang on a second. Mhikitarian is a notoriously slow starter. He took over a season at Dortmund to get going. If he is beginning to show his class after only 3 months at United, then credit to Jose. Also credit to the staff and player himself.
Would like to see Mhiki's progress continue and reach consistent excellency.
Rooney is playing the best I've seen in awhile also.
Martial, like Mhiki, will need to prove consistency. but positive signs as of last night.
Credit to all staff and players. They now need to transfer this to pints in the league.
Would like to see Mhiki's progress continue and reach consistent excellency.
Rooney is playing the best I've seen in awhile also.
Martial, like Mhiki, will need to prove consistency. but positive signs as of last night.
Credit to all staff and players. They now need to transfer this to pints in the league.
We've got to start playing Rooney in the league.
and for others it's still to be proven hence we're debating it.
what's your point? if you don't agree with the opinion in your thread you should stay out of it? that'd make for a pretty damn boring forum.
I agree we should be wary about singing from the rooftops about Jose's genius after last night. But I don't think anyone is particularly; this thread is about 'some praise' for Jose's man-management of four players who have been given chances in the past four or five games after having question marks over their current performance levels if not their entire futures at the club:
Rooney- Has looked good starting cup games and the win against Swansea after being consigned to the scrapheap by the majority of the Caf
Martial- After a poor start to the season has been used more sparingly and looked much better last night
Mkhi- Has made a much slower start to his United career than anyone would have liked but has been great for us in the past two cup games. Jose has challenged him to produce this form in the league
Jones- Currently a mainstay in our defence and looking good (injuries have played a part in giving him the chance, but he's taken it with both hands so far)
I don't think giving Jose credit for this, while bearing in mind our league form is still poor and there is a lot of work still to do, is kneejerk or unwarranted at this stage.
Jesus that's the dream.
this is what happens when you have a coach who believes in you and you believe in him..
Jones and Rojo were wanted out by most of the supporters and were at the bottom of the pecking order.. They have been very good lately!
Jones and Rojo were wanted out by most of the supporters and were at the bottom of the pecking order.. They have been very good lately!
Ok. You disagree and don't think he's managed therm well. Great stuff.
And what?
And I'm making points, asking questions, and trying to discuss it - and you're just telling people to sod off and rambling about time machines.
Your tagline is befitting.
It's quite obvious - for most of the season he has been playing 3 in midfield ie) Pogba, Herrera and Mata/Fellaini/Carrick. Last night he played a midfield 2 ie) Herrera and Carrick with rooney playing much closer to ibra. This meant the game was spread more as Martial and Mikhi kept better width (see 1st martial goal) It's how we played for over 20 years with Fergie until LVG really killed United as an entertaining team. The team was also more balanced.
Fergie only played a midfield 3 in away European games to keep it tight. He guessed that teams in the league would come to OT and try to defend which meant we could play a 2 man midfield with lots of width. I'm telling you now that if Jose had played this formation in the league games against WHU, Stoke, Burnley etc we'd be 5 or 6 points better off.
My worry is that jose is by nature a conservative manager and even yesterday he was making positive noises about Fellaini (a player who shouldn't even be close to the first 11). If he's to succeed at utd, he needs to embrace the team he chose last night. Personally I would have Rooney/Ibra at no 10 playing just behind Rashford a la cole and Yorke so you have true pace as your no 9 getting in behind opposing defences.
If we can sign one more winger, get rid of Fellaini and use 2 of Pogba, Herrera, Carrick and Schnedierlin in midfield, we'll be ok.
Fergie only played a midfield 3 in away European games to keep it tight. He guessed that teams in the league would come to OT and try to defend which meant we could play a 2 man midfield with lots of width. I'm telling you now that if Jose had played this formation in the league games against WHU, Stoke, Burnley etc we'd be 5 or 6 points better off.
My worry is that jose is by nature a conservative manager and even yesterday he was making positive noises about Fellaini (a player who shouldn't even be close to the first 11). If he's to succeed at utd, he needs to embrace the team he chose last night. Personally I would have Rooney/Ibra at no 10 playing just behind Rashford a la cole and Yorke so you have true pace as your no 9 getting in behind opposing defences.
If we can sign one more winger, get rid of Fellaini and use 2 of Pogba, Herrera, Carrick and Schnedierlin in midfield, we'll be ok.
So is your username?
The issue is your 'debate' is smarmy and arrogant. That rubs people up the wrong way.
It wasn't 4-2-3-1, which is significantly different. I agree with the previous poster: it was obvious that a change to this formation would work wonders. It's not brain surgery.
thanks - sorry was trying to explain to him in noddy English just above. I do wonder sometimes.
Right - I'm the smarmy and arrogant one.