Not sure why ManUtd CM pairing is so low in the order or how anyone can say it's a weakness in the team, if we sign Pogba then ManUtd CM pairing is up there with the best in the league.
Spurs XI: name 4 better Prem players in each position?
- Thread starter GlastonSpur
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yet another post from @GlastonSpur which only serves to reaffirm my belief Spurs will win the league or at least top 2.
I can't possibly see any weaknesses in the squad, management or off-field issues now that Glaston has dispelled them all.
Anything below top 2 should be classed as a massive failure considering how good he has painted them to be. Can't wait to see how it goes. £100 on Spurs for the league
I can't possibly see any weaknesses in the squad, management or off-field issues now that Glaston has dispelled them all.
Anything below top 2 should be classed as a massive failure considering how good he has painted them to be. Can't wait to see how it goes. £100 on Spurs for the league
Lloris (GK): De Gea
Walker (RB): bellerin, Clyne
Rose (LB): Shaw, azpilicuata
Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership): smalling+Bailly, Koscielny+mustafi(If they sign him)
Dier & Dembele (CM pairing): Kante+fabregas, pogba+schneiderlin, kouyate+noble
Alli (central AM): De Bruyne, silva, ozil, payet
Lamela (right AM): mahrez, mhkhitaryan, Willian, Alexis
Eriksen (left AM): martial, hazard, Coutinho, Alexis
Kane (striker): aguero, ibra, rashford, Sturridge
Walker (RB): bellerin, Clyne
Rose (LB): Shaw, azpilicuata
Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership): smalling+Bailly, Koscielny+mustafi(If they sign him)
Dier & Dembele (CM pairing): Kante+fabregas, pogba+schneiderlin, kouyate+noble
Alli (central AM): De Bruyne, silva, ozil, payet
Lamela (right AM): mahrez, mhkhitaryan, Willian, Alexis
Eriksen (left AM): martial, hazard, Coutinho, Alexis
Kane (striker): aguero, ibra, rashford, Sturridge
This.
I don't see any difference between Spurs having a run and bottling it last year to when liverpool had a run and ended up letting it "slip" through their fingers.
All of a sudden pool fans were all over the place saying they had the best 11 and you couldn't swap players with the other big 4 just like what's happening here.
All the stars were in alignment last year, I don't expect them to finish top 4 probably 5th
Nothing, just Spurs fans are always making threads to try and convince us how brilliant they are.
I think Kane is over hyped. I believe all 4 would have scored at least as many as he did last season playing single every minute as the lone striker (and taking pens) for Spurs.
Carrick and Pogba edges the midfield in my opinion.
Spurs do have a very good first XI though, no disputing it.
OP said you can include potential signings, we are close to signing Pogba. With Pogba we have easily the better midfield than Spurs.
Classic Glaston
At this moment in time the pairing is a over the hill Carrick and either Herrera/Schneiderlin. That's a weak pairing, in my view, Pogba is obviously a superior player and bumps United up. However let's not ignore he looked pretty ordinary when playing in a CM position for France, he's much more effective going forward or in an advance role.
OP said to include potential signings like Pogba. Whether Pogba is better offensively than defense doesn't matter, he is a center midfielder who is suited to 3 man midfield role. With Pogba our midfield is better than Spurs.
Also like I said previously, posts are heavily influenced by last season where Spurs players had their best seasons and ManUtd players were Van Gaaled. Before moving to United, Schneiderlin was one of the best CMs in the league.
Yeah he's suited to a 3 man midfield, but he will play in a two man under Mourinho which IMO could see his game suffer. Maybe in your view he was, but personally I've never rated Schneiderlin highly, that Southampton team was filled with overrated players. Lallana, Lovren and Chambers. Having one good season doesn't make you one of the best CMs in the league!
Schneiderlin had one good season? That itself is the end to this argument.
No just not in my view. Most rated him as one of the best CM in the league.
Does it?
Three seasons in Prem with Southampton.
12-13 - Southampton finished 14th and only 2 points above 17th, they conceded 60 goals the same as bottom placed QPR. He's the DM and struggled in his first season in the Prem.
13-14 - Much better season but the additions defensively of Lovren/Wanyama helped Southampton
14-15 - A decent season, only 24 league starts.
So yeah it's fair to say he only had one good-great season at Southampton and certainly didn't do anything to suggest he was one of the best CMs(he's really mainly a DM that's by far his best attributes)
Who are all these people who rated him as one of the best? Man United fans on here known to overrate every signing? Depay was going to be a superstar according to majority on here! Jones, Anderson... need I go on?
Last edited:
Your way of judging individual player is laughable.
Also just google about Schneiderlin articles before he joined ManUtd.
You could do the same for every top 6 team in the league with the same outcome - people naming some players, their fans thinking it's debatable, circle closes. The quality at the top is so close that it's not possible to say who the best team are.
What goes against Spurs is that they had their best season in absolute ages last term and still only managed a 3rd place, behind Arsenal who had a very meh season. United and City had their worst seasons in a while and still finished just slightly behind and you cannot expect Chelsea to have such abomination of a season again.
What goes against Spurs is that they had their best season in absolute ages last term and still only managed a 3rd place, behind Arsenal who had a very meh season. United and City had their worst seasons in a while and still finished just slightly behind and you cannot expect Chelsea to have such abomination of a season again.
GK- DDG, maybe Cech, maybe Courtois
RB- Bellerin, maybe Clyne
CB partnership- none
LB- Shaw, Azpi, Monreal
CM Pairing- depends on how Xhaka, Pogba, Gundogan and Kante perform
LW- Hazard, Martial
RW- Sanchez, Mahrez(as per last season at least), Willian and also Mkhitaryan if he adapts well
CAM- KDB, Ozil, maybe Mata, maybe Coutinho (latter 2 depending on whether Alli plays as well as last season)
ST- Aguero, depends on Zlatan
RB- Bellerin, maybe Clyne
CB partnership- none
LB- Shaw, Azpi, Monreal
CM Pairing- depends on how Xhaka, Pogba, Gundogan and Kante perform
LW- Hazard, Martial
RW- Sanchez, Mahrez(as per last season at least), Willian and also Mkhitaryan if he adapts well
CAM- KDB, Ozil, maybe Mata, maybe Coutinho (latter 2 depending on whether Alli plays as well as last season)
ST- Aguero, depends on Zlatan
The strength of a team's first XI plays a large part in the chances for that team to finish in the top 4, and obviously only 4 teams can finish in the top 4.
Therefore I'm canvassing views on how many other top 4 contenders have first XI players who are better those of Spurs for each position/pairing. The logic/point of the OP being that if - at one extreme - all of the other contenders have better players than Spurs' 1st XI in every position/pairing, then most observers would consider that Spurs have little or no chance of top 4. Or conversely - at the other extreme - if none of the other contenders have better players than Spurs in any position/pairing, then most observers would consider that Spurs have a very good chance of top 4.
Obviously the truth will lay somewhere between the two extremes, but the point/sense of the OP seems reasonable enough to me.
Last edited:
Can't think of any players in the world, let alone the PL, who could displace the Spurs XI.
Lloris (GK):
Walker (RB):
Rose (LB):
Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership):
Dier & Dembele (CM pairing):
Alli (central AM):
Lamela (right AM):
Eriksen (left AM):
Kane (striker):
Done.
Walker (RB):
Rose (LB):
Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership):
Dier & Dembele (CM pairing):
Alli (central AM):
Lamela (right AM):
Eriksen (left AM):
Kane (striker):
Done.
Lloris (GK): De gea, Cech, Courtois
Walker (RB): Bellerin, azpi if he plays there, valencia
Rose (LB): Shaw azpi monreal fuchs
Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership): alder is best cb in the league and him and vertonghen best partnership but individually van dijk smalling terry kosc better than jan kompany
Dier & Dembele (CM pairing): Pogba schneidi, gundogan fernandinho, ramsey coquelin, fabregas kante
Alli (central AM): mkhy, kdb, fabregas, ramsey, silva firminho coutinho
Lamela (right AM): mkhy, sanchez, sane, mahrez
Eriksen (left AM): hazard, silva,
Kane (striker): aguero, ibra, on form costa
I have a few in there twice due to versatility. Tottenham are decent but really not anything special, they looked good last year due to the low standard of the league, it won't be like that this year I don't think, sixth I would guess.
Walker (RB): Bellerin, azpi if he plays there, valencia
Rose (LB): Shaw azpi monreal fuchs
Alderweireld & Vertonghen (CB partnership): alder is best cb in the league and him and vertonghen best partnership but individually van dijk smalling terry kosc better than jan kompany
Dier & Dembele (CM pairing): Pogba schneidi, gundogan fernandinho, ramsey coquelin, fabregas kante
Alli (central AM): mkhy, kdb, fabregas, ramsey, silva firminho coutinho
Lamela (right AM): mkhy, sanchez, sane, mahrez
Eriksen (left AM): hazard, silva,
Kane (striker): aguero, ibra, on form costa
I have a few in there twice due to versatility. Tottenham are decent but really not anything special, they looked good last year due to the low standard of the league, it won't be like that this year I don't think, sixth I would guess.
I don't think there have ever been any players in the history of football who are individually or collectively better than the current Spurs XI.
Jeez, I don't know what's worse. The Op or some of the suggestions for"better".
Herrera? Jeez, unless the question is who's the most overrated player in the PL then the answer is never Ander.
Herrera? Jeez, unless the question is who's the most overrated player in the PL then the answer is never Ander.
Thread closed
Nah your aright, I'll judge a player on my own eyes rather than base it on others opinions or so called articles.
The only thing laughable is your posts in here, MS has clearly had three world class seasons in the Premiership whilst Dembele has only had one good season. That's your logic, which is completely inaccurate. Morgan one of the best CMs in the league.
I don't think Spurs will finish in the top 4 but I mostly agree with your assessment of their squad. I'd throw a few more players into the mix - Bellerin ahead of Walker, Sané ahead of Lamela and perhaps Costa and Coutinho in the same bracket as Kane and Eriksen.
I think few teams will be as defensively secure as Spurs but quite a few have better/more exciting creative players so I could see that being the difference.
Interesting that people think we'd have the best central midfield pairing with Pogba and Schneiderlin, who've both had their best form in three-man midfields.
Spurs have a very good XI, good Unit, but suffer massively beyond that.
No Truly world class players, though a few who could be in a couple years. And lacking depth.
In a table of First XI's they do well, 38 game League and 60+(?) game season, they heavily heavily rely on staying clear of injuries.
Fighting for 5th/4th for me this season.
No Truly world class players, though a few who could be in a couple years. And lacking depth.
In a table of First XI's they do well, 38 game League and 60+(?) game season, they heavily heavily rely on staying clear of injuries.
Fighting for 5th/4th for me this season.
To me Spurs are missing that super special player, Mahrez/Hazard/Aguero/RVP have all had a massive role in winning their club the title in the last four years. Have Spurs got someone who fits into that category?
Name 4 trophies that Spurs have won in the last 30 years.
Spurs had 11 in form players last season and finish third. If we had around 3 players in form we would finish above them.
That's kind of what makes the OP so pointless. It's asking for a comparison based on the assumption that everyone plays the same formation as Spurs.
Nah your aright, I'll judge a player on my own eyes rather than base it on others opinions or so called articles.
The only thing laughable is your posts in here, MS has clearly had three world class seasons in the Premiership whilst Dembele has only had one good season. That's your logic, which is completely inaccurate. Morgan one of the best CMs in the league.
No you should judge then based on team performance. That's just ridiculous. I have seen him in all the seasons and rated him highly.
With your logic DeGea was never the best GK the league because we always conceded more goals.
Those article shows how highly he was rated before joining United. So your ridiculous assumption that he is rated only by United fans is nonsense.
Also when Chelsea had best defensive record Cahill wasn't the best CB. Team performance is different from individual performance. Using goals conceded by team to prove something is laughable logic.
Last edited:
You can't have Azpilicueta as right back and left back, that's cheating. He plays left back normally. You've also got Coutinho down for 2 positions.
These kind of comparisons will never tell you the whole story, football's not about 11 individuals or 5 parings of 2 outfield players (CBs, FBs, CMs, Wingers, Forward/SS or #10), it's about what a team can accomplish as a whole, to what level they can execute the manager's instructions and how much can the main plan be stretched tactically when the going gets tough because things aren't always rosy and don't always go according to plan. If we just look at the numbers, Smalling and Blind were the best CB partnership in the PL... Are they the best CB pairing? Of course, they're not. They looked good in a side whose main goal was to turn each match into a one goal game and, because of that, suffered in creativity.
I'll start with Poch's first season at the club. The main characteristic of that Spurs side was that it dropped more points than anybody else from a winning position. And the truth is it was a much more "lightweight" side than the one we saw last year on the pitch. Dier was partnering Vertonghen at the back, i believe Bentaleb and Mason were the CMs and Eriksen was used more centrally. This side conceded 53 goals, finished 5th and it looked pretty obvious that Pochettino had overestimated the abilities of his side in terms of winning football matches by its superiority in the creativity section. The league cup final was the prime example of that, Chelsea won 2-0 by simply doing nothing more than exposing the spaces Spurs were willing to offer them. All the stats, besides the goals, favored Tottenham that day.
Pochettino received a lot of credit for his work last season not only because he addressed this issue but because he did it in a way that it didn't compromise his side's abilities in the creation of chances and scoring goals. Tottenham scored 9 more goals than in their previous PL campaign and conceded only 35 (18 less). This didn't occur magically, there were considerable alterations made by Pochettino. Dier was pushed a bit forward in order to guard the spaces in between the lines (something in which Spurs suffered in 14/15), Alderweireld was an upgrade in the CB position and Dembele (a much more dynamic, strong and reliable defensively than Mason player) became the first choice for the #8 role. Securing the defense in deeper areas gave permission to the FBs to play a more significant role in the build up process. This caused a ricochet of changes in the attacking half. It allowed the introduction of Alli, who is more effective near the edge of the box than as a third CM, behind Kane and moved Eriksen, the team's primary play maker in the wide areas where he could find more spaces to exploit.
Tottenham finished third with 13 draws and only 6 defeats. The task here looks pretty simple, turn half of these draws into wins without risking more defeats. This is what gives you the PL title. Most of Spurs fans believe it's a matter of squad depth but i disagree. I think it's a matter of quality. Kane is already a top forward while Eriksen's 6 goals and 13 assists, Alli's 9 assists and 10 goals are already good but they can improve by doing one thing: If the team is set up tactically to take more risks. But this will mean that the highly compact, cohesive and tight as hell organization in the defensive half will have to retain its effectiveness and at the same time increase its quality.
And herein lie the questions: Can Dier cover more spaces and be as good as he was with a more creative but less reliable defensively player next to him. Will Vertonghen and Alderweireld be as solid as they were with a one man cover, instead of two, in the central channels? Is it worth signing a Full Back who will offer an attacking threat and therefore an extra option up front by sacrificing some of the defensive work Walker/Rose do or their important role in the build up plays? Can the midfield and the defense deal with this? Will the team be able to play with the lines a bit higher in order to turnaround matches by risking more shots at Lloris? Will the Frenchman be able to cope with that like DDG has in the last two seasons for example?
We'll have to see about all that next season... But despite some miracles like Leicester, history teaches us that a manager can usually take a club to a certain level of competitiveness. From that point on, investment in quality and the ability to buy from the top shelf matters a lot. Liverpool fans, whose club can pay the fees but can't afford the wages, will confirm that. You need more than a good manager and a good bunch of players to make 80+ points in the PL season after season.
I'll start with Poch's first season at the club. The main characteristic of that Spurs side was that it dropped more points than anybody else from a winning position. And the truth is it was a much more "lightweight" side than the one we saw last year on the pitch. Dier was partnering Vertonghen at the back, i believe Bentaleb and Mason were the CMs and Eriksen was used more centrally. This side conceded 53 goals, finished 5th and it looked pretty obvious that Pochettino had overestimated the abilities of his side in terms of winning football matches by its superiority in the creativity section. The league cup final was the prime example of that, Chelsea won 2-0 by simply doing nothing more than exposing the spaces Spurs were willing to offer them. All the stats, besides the goals, favored Tottenham that day.
Pochettino received a lot of credit for his work last season not only because he addressed this issue but because he did it in a way that it didn't compromise his side's abilities in the creation of chances and scoring goals. Tottenham scored 9 more goals than in their previous PL campaign and conceded only 35 (18 less). This didn't occur magically, there were considerable alterations made by Pochettino. Dier was pushed a bit forward in order to guard the spaces in between the lines (something in which Spurs suffered in 14/15), Alderweireld was an upgrade in the CB position and Dembele (a much more dynamic, strong and reliable defensively than Mason player) became the first choice for the #8 role. Securing the defense in deeper areas gave permission to the FBs to play a more significant role in the build up process. This caused a ricochet of changes in the attacking half. It allowed the introduction of Alli, who is more effective near the edge of the box than as a third CM, behind Kane and moved Eriksen, the team's primary play maker in the wide areas where he could find more spaces to exploit.
Tottenham finished third with 13 draws and only 6 defeats. The task here looks pretty simple, turn half of these draws into wins without risking more defeats. This is what gives you the PL title. Most of Spurs fans believe it's a matter of squad depth but i disagree. I think it's a matter of quality. Kane is already a top forward while Eriksen's 6 goals and 13 assists, Alli's 9 assists and 10 goals are already good but they can improve by doing one thing: If the team is set up tactically to take more risks. But this will mean that the highly compact, cohesive and tight as hell organization in the defensive half will have to retain its effectiveness and at the same time increase its quality.
And herein lie the questions: Can Dier cover more spaces and be as good as he was with a more creative but less reliable defensively player next to him. Will Vertonghen and Alderweireld be as solid as they were with a one man cover, instead of two, in the central channels? Is it worth signing a Full Back who will offer an attacking threat and therefore an extra option up front by sacrificing some of the defensive work Walker/Rose do or their important role in the build up plays? Can the midfield and the defense deal with this? Will the team be able to play with the lines a bit higher in order to turnaround matches by risking more shots at Lloris? Will the Frenchman be able to cope with that like DDG has in the last two seasons for example?
We'll have to see about all that next season... But despite some miracles like Leicester, history teaches us that a manager can usually take a club to a certain level of competitiveness. From that point on, investment in quality and the ability to buy from the top shelf matters a lot. Liverpool fans, whose club can pay the fees but can't afford the wages, will confirm that. You need more than a good manager and a good bunch of players to make 80+ points in the PL season after season.
How about you state what you disagreed with instead of getting upset over an internet post?
Don't see the point in this thread, it's basically some convoluted concept designed just to make us aware that the team that finished third last season actually has some good players.
That's exactly the point of this thread. "Loot at us" kind of thread.
All being well, should finish top eight.