The ‘Deputy Football Director’ position | 31.05.2022 - Andy O’Boyle appointed

Chairman Steve

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The highly reliable David Ornstein has reported that we are now looking to appoint a Deputy Football Director to our team, who will work under John Murtough, who holds the Football Director position.

Any thoughts and speculations on who it will be? As well as the move to create this position itself?

Personally I think it’s another good move in terms of moving towards modernising the United hierarchy and clearly separating the Commercial side from the Football side. Under Woodward, it felt like the Commercial was governing Football a lot more than it should have. I can’t imagine it being someone high profile on the football director market and it’ll basically be someone low profile in that market or potentially a highish profile player taking their first steps. I‘d like to see someone foreign involved if possible to provide ideas from the continent.
 
Just bring in Ralf Rangnick for one of these positions rather than as a consultant. If it's just going to be an ex player with no experience then don't bother
 
Every senior position will generally have a team of people working under them. Not sure there is much news here.
 
Probably spend 12months on this then give it Fletcher and bring in another old player in, to do Fletchers role of sitting on the bench.
 
Chairman Steve said:




The highly reliable David Ornstein has reported that we are now looking to appoint a Deputy Football Director to our team, who will work under John Murtough, who holds the Football Director position.

Any thoughts and speculations on who it will be? As well as the move to create this position itself?

Personally I think it’s another good move in terms of moving towards modernising the United hierarchy and clearly separating the Commercial side from the Football side. Under Woodward, it felt like the Commercial was governing Football a lot more than it should have. I can’t imagine it being someone high profile on the football director market and it’ll basically be someone low profile in that market or potentially a highish profile player taking their first steps. I‘d like to see someone foreign involved if possible to provide ideas from the continent.
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It will probably be someone who has worked their way through the FA system and hasn't quite made the step up. You need someone with less authority than your DOF in that position, but someone who could feasibly take the role of DOF when the current one decides to step down.

Rangnick has too much authority by nature of his work as a DoF with redbull, and Murthough considers him a mentor - I think that is why his role is "consultant" and not something more specified. That way he doesn't undermine the DoF, but can remain in a position of a mentor and adviser.

It's not a bad strategy to be fair.
 
wolvored said:
Probably spend 12months on this then give it Fletcher and bring in another old player in, to do Fletchers role of sitting on the bench.
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I remain to be convinced on Murtough given he's been in the job for a year, and in that time recruitment still a joke. No central midfielder in summer but suddenly £25m in wages for OAP Ronnie. Nothing in during Jan window, then we read that Arnold is reviewing our transfer strategy as Jan window viewed as a bit of a mistake. So he and Murtough are reviewing themselves...? And consultant role or Ralf is a joke, give him a proper permanent job. He is far, far more qualified for DoF than Murtough ever was. Why he continue to appoint under qualified staff to such key roles is beyond me. REmember Ed interiewing Rio for DoF...?
 
Gordon Godot said:
I remain to be convinced on Murtough given he's been in the job for a year, and in that time recruitment still a joke. No central midfielder in summer but suddenly £25m in wages for OAP Ronnie. Nothing in during Jan window, then we read that Arnold is reviewing our transfer strategy as Jan window viewed as a bit of a mistake. So he and Murtough are reviewing themselves...? And consultant role or Ralf is a joke, give him a proper permanent job. He is far, far more qualified for DoF than Murtough ever was. Why he continue to appoint under qualified staff to such key roles is beyond me. REmember Ed interiewing Rio for DoF...?
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I dont think Arnold started till 1 Feb, so Jan transfer window was still Woodwards domain. This sounds good though as Arnold is straight in, moaning about the transfer window and Murtough needing help, maybe even replaced in the near future.
 
Gordon Godot said:
I remain to be convinced on Murtough given he's been in the job for a year, and in that time recruitment still a joke. No central midfielder in summer but suddenly £25m in wages for OAP Ronnie. Nothing in during Jan window, then we read that Arnold is reviewing our transfer strategy as Jan window viewed as a bit of a mistake. So he and Murtough are reviewing themselves...? And consultant role or Ralf is a joke, give him a proper permanent job. He is far, far more qualified for DoF than Murtough ever was. Why he continue to appoint under qualified staff to such key roles is beyond me. REmember Ed interiewing Rio for DoF...?
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Rangnick is 63 years old. The whole point of a DoF is to keep the club pulling in one direction despite changing managers - so it requires a bit of stability.

Appointing a 49 year old to the role - who is even more qualified than Edwards was when he was appointed - who then has one of the most reputable DoFs in the business as a permanent adviser and mentor is not a bad strategy at all.
 
Gordon Godot said:
I remain to be convinced on Murtough given he's been in the job for a year, and in that time recruitment still a joke. No central midfielder in summer but suddenly £25m in wages for OAP Ronnie. Nothing in during Jan window, then we read that Arnold is reviewing our transfer strategy as Jan window viewed as a bit of a mistake. So he and Murtough are reviewing themselves...? And consultant role or Ralf is a joke, give him a proper permanent job. He is far, far more qualified for DoF than Murtough ever was. Why he continue to appoint under qualified staff to such key roles is beyond me. REmember Ed interiewing Rio for DoF...?
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I don't think you can give him any credit or fault for the summer transfer window as he'd literally just moved into his role. We'll see how he does this coming window and thereafter but I think it's premature to make any strong opinions on him.
 
saivet said:
I don't think you can give him any credit or fault for the summer transfer window as he'd literally just moved into his role. We'll see how he does this coming window and thereafter but I think it's premature to make any strong opinions on him.
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He started the role I believe in March. He was also previously head 'football development', so should have had a clear idea what was going on in the club across reservces and fist team and sense of what we needed. So I would say he certainly should have overseen last summer and then 100% Jan window on him. If nots on him its eitehr becuase he is not up to it (lets see) or doesnt have the real power. The latter is absolutely true, in that we have no coherent plan for target areas, scouting etc at all. Hence the knee jerk signing Ronnie in the summar. No DoF worth their salt sanctions that given the glaring weaknesses in other areas
 
I think us Caftards should create a 'What does Deputy Football Director do?' thread and get ahead of the curve for once.
 
Gordon Godot said:
I remain to be convinced on Murtough given he's been in the job for a year, and in that time recruitment still a joke. No central midfielder in summer but suddenly £25m in wages for OAP Ronnie. Nothing in during Jan window, then we read that Arnold is reviewing our transfer strategy as Jan window viewed as a bit of a mistake. So he and Murtough are reviewing themselves...? And consultant role or Ralf is a joke, give him a proper permanent job. He is far, far more qualified for DoF than Murtough ever was. Why he continue to appoint under qualified staff to such key roles is beyond me. REmember Ed interiewing Rio for DoF...?
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It's unfair to judge him yet as he didn't have much to do with last summer. And Arnold didn't officially take over until February 1st.
 
I would put money on it being Rio. He is always wh*ring himself out for this kinda role at the club. He basically talks about big names at big clubs and says if he was at United he'd bring them in. Always has extremely limited knowledge on players from outside of the big European clubs. He'd be a disaster and another clueless clown in a role he knows nothing about and completely unqualified for. So he'd actually probably fit in quite well.
 
IrishMcD said:
I would put money on it being Rio. He is always wh*ring himself out for this kinda role at the club. He basically talks about big names at big clubs and says if he was at United he'd bring them in. Always has extremely limited knowledge on players from outside of the big European clubs. He'd be a disaster and another clueless clown in a role he knows nothing about and completely unqualified for. So he'd actually probably fit in quite well.
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It's pretty clear that Ralf is not going to be given DoF. But then this is the sort of appointment where the board should say to Ralf, give us a shortlist of the top 5 names to go for across European football. Remove Ed, Fergie and Arnold from the process.
 
Nickelodeon said:
I think us Caftards should create a 'What does Deputy Football Director do?' thread and get ahead of the curve for once.
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Liverpool & BHA also appointed a "Deputy DoF" in recent times, the idea is to provide support to the DoF, it's nothing new or revolutionary here.
 
I feel like a lot of hot air will be written about this, but we'll see little or no effect on the pitch. We don't need any old boys for these kinds of positions, we need someone from the outside who will be critical and ruffle some feathers along the way
 
RoyH1 said:
I feel like a lot of hot air will be written about this, but we'll see little or no effect on the pitch. We don't need any old boys for these kinds of positions, we need someone from the outside who will be critical and ruffle some feathers along the way
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100%. We need people qualified to do the job, where Ralf should be able help us.
 
Laurencio said:
It will probably be someone who has worked their way through the FA system and hasn't quite made the step up. You need someone with less authority than your DOF in that position, but someone who could feasibly take the role of DOF when the current one decides to step down.
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The authority remains with the DoF, but remember that since establishing the football structure at the club, where Murtough was appointed as Football Director (essentially a DoF), numerous departments and people report into Murtough, like Scouting & Recruitment depts, Football Academy, Football Operations dept, Data Science Dept, Sports Science etc...

The Deputy DoF will take on some of the load from Murtough, since Murtough will be busy with the recruitment process of the next permanent manager /head coach, as well as players recruitment.
 
I can’t see it being Rio. I think he has too much of a brand and media presence to take on this role. He seems more suited to doing what he’s doing now. I can’t see him dressed in business attire, speaking with emissaries of other clubs at length.

I can see Ralf getting a title like ‘Senior Consultant’ or ‘Senior Technical Director’.

I am hoping it’s someone outside the United circle of trust and possibly even outside the English football circle. Personally it should be someone who’s worked with a variety of different managers as a player or as a club official and therefore been exposed to different styles of football. I don’t want SAF disciples as they havent had great track records post-playing career for the most part, excluding VDS and possibly Jordi Cruyff who’s a key figure at Barcelona now.
 
Murtough is qualified as a director of football. He's been directing the football side of several clubs for almost 20 years. Directing the scouting and data science departments and creating roles for 100s of people on the football side of the club and also directing the revamp of the academy after it was neglected under David Gill/Fergie. But the issue with a lot of you chaps is that you have your own perceptions on what a DoFs role is in the game today and look at middling clubs like RB Leipzig, Sevilla etc which clouds your judgement.
 
Adnan said:
Murtough is qualified as a director of football. He's been directing the football side of several clubs for almost 20 years. Directing the scouting and data science departments and creating roles for 100s of people on the football side of the club and also directing the revamp of the academy after it was neglected under David Gill/Fergie. But the issue with a lot of you chaps is that you have your own perceptions on what a DoFs role is in the game today and look at middling clubs like RB Leipzig, Sevilla etc which clouds peoples judgement.
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Could you sound any more patronising? Bow down to you all knowledgeable one.
 
Overmars had Gerry Hamstra assisting him at Ajax. Salihamidzic has Marco Neppe assisting him at Bayern and Zorc has Kehl assisting him at Dortmund.

It's normal to have a person assisting the Sporting Director at clubs with numerous departments.

John Mcdermott ex Spurs would be a good candidate for the role but he's recently joined the FA in a technical director's role after spending 10 years overseeing Tottenham's academy. So I doubt it'll be him.
 
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I have applied for the job. Just to see if they are looking at any bankers for the role.
 
Presumably Darren Fletcher will spend his time sat beside this guy as well.
 
Hard to get excited about a deputy football director when we don't even know how or whether the current structure will come to fruition. I guess it's a sign they're taking it seriously?
 
What's Murtough's CV like? This another guy who's 'learning on the job' like Carrick, Ole, Fletcher et al?

It's really not good enough for a major European sporting institution like United.
 
Adnan said:
Murtough is qualified as a director of football. He's been directing the football side of several clubs for almost 20 years. Directing the scouting and data science departments and creating roles for 100s of people on the football side of the club and also directing the revamp of the academy after it was neglected under David Gill/Fergie. But the issue with a lot of you chaps is that you have your own perceptions on what a DoFs role is in the game today and look at middling clubs like RB Leipzig, Sevilla etc which clouds your judgement.
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I don't understand why people think he's not qualified and not a football man. He was at Everton for years then took up a high level position with the Premier League before joining us with Moyes.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
I don't understand why people think he's not qualified and not a football man. He was at Everton for years then took up a high level position with the Premier League before joining us with Moyes.
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Because people only look at things with the first team in mind, mate. They want a transfer guru who signs players for the first team. But the role of the DoF in England and Germany is about keeping the wheel moving according to Dan Ashworth. And that basically means the figurehead at the top has to make sure things are running smoothly at every level of the football side of the club. From the youth teams, medical/scouting/data science etc. And aligning everything towards a common goal. So that will then create conditions for three things, which are imperative to succeed at any club. And those three things are - alignment, Stability, Continuity.

Edwards at Liverpool is a example of someone who was being ridiculed by fans and journos alike before Klopp arrived. Klopp came in and made him the de-facto DoF, and everything else is history.
 
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Hopefully not Rio.
Hopefully too, it’s not one of these plastic positions that doesn’t melt when it gets hot.

It’s hot right now, and there is little accountability.

Ralf Ramblings, and players saying sorry on their social media after games.

That's the point we are at.
 
We just need to keep pouring fresh water in the sea and eventually it'll be a lake. Or at least that's what United believe.
 
I feel like we create a new random position every month and each time it never seems to be a standard Director of Football like you would see running the show at other top clubs.
 
Woodzy said:
I feel like we create a new random position every month and each time it never seems to be a standard Director of Football like you would see running the show at other top clubs.
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I thought John Murtough was our DOF?
 
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