The “Ole In” Brigade

[lysglimt]

It's woeful as permanent United manager.

Ok - so we simply look at the matches that fit our agenda....

Since October 21st he has won 10 out of 16 - that is over 60% - and one of those defeats was with our kids in Astana. Surely that can't Count - so he has won 10 out of 15 matches with our strongest side - 66% - not bad!

 

[He'sRaldo]

It's funny when you read it.

When we win, Ole ins will comment the same thing about plan, youth, progress.

When we lose, the threads will be swarmed with ole outs throwing insults and degrading Ole.

And then they argue, and make out.

The end.

I don't understand how some can come on here and argue the exact same thing, day after day, for months on end! To the point of developing a reputation on the boards for being an "inner" or an "outer". I mean, don't you get bored?

Worst part is when it's clear that nothing will change their position. Always the same points said in 10,000 different ways... I mean, what's the point of it all?

 

[matt10000]

Seriously some are still questioning the loyalty of the current fans who have endured 6 years of being crap because they want the current manager out for the best of the club? If we were glory hunters we would have moved to supporting another club at any point of the last 6 years, not waiting 7 years to move on to another club. We are far past such point.

6 years of crap you poor baby that must seem like a lifetime.

You know it takes & or 9 years to train to be a doctor, hard work and tough times but rewards at the end!

You cant expect life to be perfect all the time, and when it isnt you cant expect an instant fix.

 

[Paxi]

Ok - so we simply look at the matches that fit our agenda....

Since October 21st he has won 10 out of 16 - that is over 60% - and one of those defeats was with our kids in Astana. Surely that can't Count - so he has won 10 out of 15 matches with our strongest side - 66% - not bad!

No. I'm looking at it from an objective point of view. There is a difference between being an interim manager and permanent manager. There is a thing called manager bounce?

28 points in 31 games is terrible. If Solskjaers had a 60% win ratio as a permanent manager, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Look at the his announcement as permanent manager thread -- the majority were happy that he was on board permanently, after that things change, so we go from there.

 

[90 + 5min]

Because we don’t have as bad a team as is claimed. We should be doing much much better. With a better manager we would be but ah well champions league is gone again

Okey, lets keep going. Next question. Let us pretend now that you are right (I disagree to a point) about us having "not bad team". Can we agree that all of the teams I brought up have better squad than us? And if so, how is it that we despite having worse squad than those teams we still come out with points? If you are telling the World that Ole is fault for losses against Watford and teams like that, why can't you give him lot of credit against better teams?

They have been asked this question and the Ole Out have no answer to it. It is obvious that tactically inapt manager would not succeed in the games Ole did, so they start yapping about losses instead, as if we have a squad to be consistent.

By the way - we do not lose every game where teams sit back, that is factually incorrect, but they keep saying it anyway

Rollocoster of results will happen until our players have the maturity to handle games against weaker opponents. Looking at those games, we have been better overall but still lost. When you are young player you don't have that patience and composure that requires to win games against weaker opponents. You make quick, irrational decisions that affect your play in bad way.

 

[el3mel]

6 years of crap you poor baby that must seem like a lifetime.

You know it takes & or 9 years to train to be a doctor, hard work and tough times but rewards at the end!

You cant expect life to be perfect all the time, and when it isnt you cant expect an instant fix.

What are you talking about? I am talking about saying fans who want Ole out are plastic/not loyal/glory hunters /will be supporting another club soon when such fans have been supporting the club normally through 6 years of being crap and already passed the test of what they would do when the team stops winning things. If there were glory hunters among United, I ensure you they must have left few years ago!

 

[spiriticon]

No. I'm looking at it from an objective point of view. There is a difference between being an interim manager and permanent manager. There is a thing called manager bounce?

28 points in 31 games is terrible. If Solskjaers had a 60% win ratio as a permanent manager, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Look at the his announcement as permanent manager thread -- the majority were happy that he was on board permanently, after that things change, so we go from there.

Manager bounce or not, they are still Ole's results. You can't discredit them simply because he was interim manager at that time. That's silly.

 

[RedSky]

Are we meant to not include the first 2/3 months of performances for every new Manager for every club in Europe because "manager bounce". It's a shit argument personally.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Are we meant to not include the first 2/3 months of performances for every new Manager for every club in Europe because "manager bounce". It's a shit argument personally.

It is a shit argument to use it but also the inverse which is using it as an excuse for him. At the end of the day the first three months in the job are by far the least important three months in the job.

Those first three months are what got him the permanent job in the first place and people can't keep using them as an excuse for him now that his record as a permanent manager is so poor.

 

[Random Task]

As predicted, this thread has descended into yet another battle between the Ole in and Ole out parties.

How is it any different from this one: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole-gunnar-solskjær-permanent-manager.446090/unread

 

[RedSky]

It is a shit argument to use it but also the inverse which is using it as an excuse for him. At the end of the day the first three months in the job are by far the least important three months in the job.

Those first three months are what got him the permanent job in the first place and people can't keep using them as an excuse for him now that his record as a permanent manager is so poor.

I agree to a point. If you combine all his stats and compare them to other new Managers (I did that a few days ago) you'll see that his record isn't poor. It's only poor if you decide to wipe away our form like you just did.

I'll always judge him like I have with all our other Managers on their complete job, not a few months, or a few weeks, but his entire time with us. But each to their own.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I agree to a point. If you combine all his stats and compare them to other new Managers (I did that a few days ago) you'll see that his record isn't poor. It's only poor if you decide to wipe away our form like you just did.

I'll always judge him like I have with all our other Managers on their complete job, not a few months, or a few weeks, but his entire time with us. But each to their own.

I mean it's very, very rare that a manager comes in, wins basically every game in their first three months and then capitulates to a way lower win percentage for the next year so I think it's a pretty unique situation with Ole.

No doubt we were great those first few months and he deserved the job because of it but the fact is that since then we have been a complete shadow of that team so I don't really blame people for basically dismissing it as irrelevant to our current plight because.. it kinda is.

 

[DBT85]

Either you judge it on the whole time, or on a season by season basis since transfers in and out are done. I honestly think we could easily have gone on that run after PSG even with him as interim, as it just wiped the cnuts out.

I do think we were daft to give it to him so early when there would have been no issue waiting.

I don't think the club will get rid unless we really do end up like 10th or something. 5th and no CL wont be enough to boot him as it was for others.

That said, if we were to string 3 wins together we'd get into the top 4 fairly easily as the entire league is woeful this year apart from Liverpool.

 

[Strelok]

As predicted, this thread has descended into yet another battle between the Ole in and Ole out parties.

How is it any different from this one: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole-gunnar-solskjær-permanent-manager.446090/unread

You forgot this as well

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/would-you-sack-or-keep-ole-poll-added.450911/

It's a waste of time tbh, I'm sometime really amazed that how both sides can't see that.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I'm Ole out but I really want him to succeed. What I've told myself now is that he should have the rest of the season. He has done a lot of things right off the pitch and the only thing people are angry about is his tactics.

But Looking at the quality of our team there are 5 clubs that are better than us - City Liverpool Tottenham Chelsea and Leceister. So logically we're meant to be 6th. We're currently 7th, 1 point away from 5th and 6th.

In essence based on the quality of players we have we're meant to be 6th. Now add the fact that 2 of our best attackers - Pogba and Martial along with Mcctominay suffered injuries, add to the fact that we're playing Lingard and Pereira in the most important attacking position, add to the fact that we have only one single good passer in the team, add to the fact that we have a lot of young players bound to be inconsistent. Add to the fact that our current no.9 just became a striker again after how many years. Add all this together and we're 7th just one point away from 6th - the position our quality of players can take us

There is a great imbalance in this squad that the top 5 don't have. Man City have De Bruyne, the Silvas, Sterling... So many players that can create and score goals. Liverpool have Arnold Robertson Salah Mane Henderson Firminho even Van Dijk that creates and scores goals. Tottenham have Eriksen, Kane... Well you get the gist.

Each of the top 5 teams have a good amount of creators and goal scorers. Asides from Greenwood Martial, Rashford(all young players bound to be inconsistent) and Pogba who do we have to create and score for us. And people are complaining when we're 4 points from top 4.

The only reason I want Ole out is the fact that his CV shows that he has never rebuilt a squad before and has no experience at top level. This whole Ole as manager just seems like one dangerous experiment that could go wrong

 

[7even]

The point about pointing to injured key player is that if they play the game, the entire game turns out differently than if they were not playing. Not a single ball trajectory besides the kickoff remain the same.

Nice to see you back after Christmas Cato!

Its funny because whenever I see your name I start to think of this funny little episode.
Clouseau vs. Cato

Well.. Ole will be safe until the season ends so let’s analyze when he will change this awful 4231 system to a more modern 433 with a proper dm, at least two creators and when he will start to use our fullbacks more offensively.

I think it’s obvious that Pogba and Fred needs a defensive mf behind them to help our two slow center backs to cope with potential counters. We also need a player similar to Dani Olmo/Sancho up front to be more creative in our attacks. I’m not sure Haaland is the answer but if he comes he will at least gives us more options.

A starting line up with a new dm, Pogba and Fred in a offensive triangle would help us enormously if we want to take control of more games and dominate possession similar to how played against Newcastle.



I

 

[passing-wind]

Ok - so we simply look at the matches that fit our agenda....

Since October 21st he has won 10 out of 16 - that is over 60% - and one of those defeats was with our kids in Astana. Surely that can't Count - so he has won 10 out of 15 matches with our strongest side - 66% - not bad!

Pathetic excuse premier league started on August 9th you can't just erase 90 days of football for the sake of statistics.

Out of 19 games we have Won-7, Drawn-7 and Lost-5 anyone who thinks Solskjaer is performing adequately is utterly deluded.

 

[Lentwood]

Is he? Our results whenever Pogba was fit and playing were pretty much the same as they have been since he's been out

Clearly injuries are huge. City have spent £1.3BN this decade but they lose Laporte and they look a shadow of the side defensively.

I don’t think any poster is claiming we would be top had Pogba and Martial played every game but I think it’s reasonable to think we might have four more points at least

Likewise, how would Leicester have done without Vardy and Maddison? How would Spurs have done without Alli and Kane? Liverpool without Salah and Mane? Of course it would make a difference over a prolonged period of games

 

[Lentwood]

Pathetic excuse premier league started on August 9th you can't just erase 90 days of football for the sake of statistics.

Out of 19 games we have Won-7, Drawn-7 and Lost-5 anyone who thinks Solskjaer is performing adequately is utterly deluded.

I think this poster was sarcastically pointing out the folly in only counting from the start of this season and not including all of Ole’s results....

 

[Massive Spanner]

Clearly injuries are huge. City have spent £1.3BN this decade but they lose Laporte and they look a shadow of the side defensively.

I don’t think any poster is claiming we would be top had Pogba and Martial played every game but I think it’s reasonable to think we might have four more points at least

Likewise, how would Leicester have done without Vardy and Maddison? How would Spurs have done without Alli and Kane? Liverpool without Salah and Mane? Of course it would make a difference over a prolonged period of games

But we have concrete examples of us not doing any better points wise with Pogba and Martial fit so you can't really argue that. Also for all those other examples you've listed, all of those players have been far more vital to their teams than Pogba and Martial have for us.

 

[R'hllor]

Suddenly doctors and doctors related things getting mentioned left right center, the feck is going on.

 

[Random Task]

You forgot this as well

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/would-you-sack-or-keep-ole-poll-added.450911/

It's a waste of time tbh, I'm sometime really amazed that how both sides can't see that.

Aye, that one too.

There's a part of me that would be happy to see Ole sacked simply to put an end petty name-calling and oneupmanship.

 

[spiriticon]

Aye, that one too.

There's a part of me that would be happy to see Ole sacked simply to put an end petty name-calling and oneupmanship.

You know it won't stop with Ole.

'Poch out
Allegri out
Nagelsmann out
Ten Hag out
Rodgers out
Giggs out'

Potential future threads coming to a United forum near you, where this bullshit will be repeated ad nauseum.

 

[lysglimt]

Pathetic excuse premier league started on August 9th you can't just erase 90 days of football for the sake of statistics.

Out of 19 games we have Won-7, Drawn-7 and Lost-5 anyone who thinks Solskjaer is performing adequately is utterly deluded.

Why not ? The guy I responded to - did just that so OGS' stats would fit his agenda much better.

Of course I agree with you that you can't pick and choose which matches you want to look at - that was kind of my point

 

[dove]

You know it won't stop with Ole.

'Poch out
Allegri out
Nagelsmann out
Ten Hag out
Rodgers out
Giggs out'

Potential future threads coming to a United forum near you, where this bullshit will be repeated ad nauseum.

And it shouldn’t stop if manager is underperforming.

 

[0le]

6 years of crap you poor baby that must seem like a lifetime.

You know it takes & or 9 years to train to be a doctor, hard work and tough times but rewards at the end!

You cant expect life to be perfect all the time, and when it isnt you cant expect an instant fix.

Can you imagine going through all those years of work to get told by some idiot during a visit to your practice stuff like vaccines cause autism. I could never have the patience to be a doctor.

 

[spiriticon]

And it shouldn’t stop if manager is underperforming.

You know what I agree. feck it, I'll be the one to create the 'Poch/Allegri/Allardyce out' thread after their first few defeats.

Here's to another 30 years of manager in/manager out debates.

 

[dove]

You know what I agree. feck it, I'll be the one to create the 'Poch/Allegri/Allardyce out' thread after their first few defeats.

Here's to another 30 years of manager in/manager out debates.

Not after first few. But when we barely win a game for half a year, don’t hesitate to do it.

 

[spiriticon]

Not after first few. But when we barely win a game for half a year, don’t hesitate to do it.

My patience will have run thin after the first few games. If there's not a immediate title challenge by the first christmas, bring on the next brave trialist. I want to see some fecking miracles.

 

[lolok]

But Looking at the quality of our team there are 5 clubs that are better than us - City Liverpool Tottenham Chelsea and Leceister. So logically we're meant to be 6th. We're currently 7th, 1 point away from 5th and 6th.

In essence based on the quality of players we have we're meant to be 6th.

Agree to disagree mate. I think United has more quality in the squad than the Caf gives credit for. The manager matters, and United don't have an elite manager or even a very good manager. A club of United's stature should always have a top 5/top 10 World manager, and their current manager isn't even a top 10 manager in England. United has dropped points to West Ham, Bournemouth, Villa and Watford. 11 points to be exact. Win those, United in 3rd.

The talent is there, evidenced by United's record against fellow top 6 clubs. What's missing (among other things,) is the elite manager that can get the best out of the squad. No way, on talent alone is this the 6th best squad in England. No way should any top 6 team drop so many points to the BOTTOM 5 teams in the league. That said, Ole isn't going anywhere, so the hope is he figures out how to get consistency and the best out of the players.

 

[Fts 74]

Personally, I think its a sad state of affairs where we have 3 or 4 different threads on our current manager.

I can't believe how divided we have become over our own manager.

I'm ole in but I don't think I'm a "top red" for thinking that, I couldn't stand moyes or van gaal but I supported them cos they were Utds manager.

He's not going anywhere until the summer at the earliest and who knows by then we might have secured top 4 and/or won a trophy so he will be definitely staying then.

I'll leave the rest of you to argue over the other stuff like stats tactics etc.

 

[Feed Me]

How do Ole's defenders rationalise us being behind Sheffield after 19 games?

On what planet is that an acceptable result after half a season?

What mental gymnastics will be employed to justify this shit underperformance?

 

[charlenefan]

How do Ole's defenders rationalise us being behind Sheffield after 19 games?

On what planet is that an acceptable result after half a season?

What mental gymnastics will be employed to justify this shit underperformance?

What teams are acceptable to be below out of interest? Because we should apparently be embarrassed to be below Sheffield United and Wolves according to you, what about Leicester are they acceptable or is that embarrassing as well? What about City? I mean 10 years ago City hadn't ever won the PL is it embarrassing to be below them? What about Liverpool? You have there a side who haven't won the league in my lifetime, guess it's embarrassing to be below them as well?

 

[NewGlory]

So Man City lost to Wolves today. It's a second loss in just this month to mid-table teams (Wolves and United).

Are people on Bluemoon asking for Pep's head? Clearly City is unable to break down lesser teams. Should they not sack Pep and hire Poch, while he is still available?

 

[Feed Me]

What teams are acceptable to be below out of interest? Because we should apparently be embarrassed to be below Sheffield United and Wolves according to you, what about Leicester are they acceptable or is that embarrassing as well? What about City? I mean 10 years ago City hadn't ever won the PL is it embarrassing to be below them? What about Liverpool? You have there a side who haven't won the league in my lifetime, guess it's embarrassing to be below them as well?

Understandable and acceptable to be behind Liverpool and City.

Disappointed to be behind Chelsea and Leicester but both teams have more recent pedigree than us, so fair enough.

We are neck and neck with Spurs who are a considerably better side with superior manager, despite being on an overall downturn themselves, so fair enough.

Being behind Wolves and – in particular – Sheff U after 19 games is a joke though.

 

[Random Task]

You know it won't stop with Ole.

'Poch out
Allegri out
Nagelsmann out
Ten Hag out
Rodgers out
Giggs out'

Potential future threads coming to a United forum near you, where this bullshit will be repeated ad nauseum.

If someone could be assed to dig up and read through both the LVG Out and Jose Out threads, I'm sure they will find them strikingly similar to the Ole Out threads (all 12 of them!).

We're bound to land on a winner eventually, the law of averages and all that. We have to be patient in the meantime. If there is one positive to take from the post-SAF era, it's United fans learning to be patient. Well, I have anyway.

 

[Leftback99]

How do Ole's defenders rationalise us being behind Sheffield after 19 games?

On what planet is that an acceptable result after half a season?

What mental gymnastics will be employed to justify this shit underperformance?

I suppose it depends whether you thought Sheff Utd would be only 9 points behind City at the half way point.

 

[Feed Me]

I suppose it depends whether you thought Sheff Utd would be only 9 points behind City at the half way point.

This is the worst City team in years and they are still second.

That is what having standards is all about.

Not being at your best but still not dropping like a stone.

We have fans who think 7th is normal

 

[charlenefan]

This is the worst City team in years and they are still second.

That is what having standards is all about.

Not being at your best but still not dropping like a stone.

We have fans who think 7th is normal

City are 3rd and potentially 17 points of Liverpool once Liverpool play their game in hand

Yeah they haven't dropped like a stone at all have they

 

[Leftback99]

This is the worst City team in years and they are still second.

That is what having standards is all about.

Not being at your best but still not dropping like a stone.

We have fans who think 7th is normal

Well yes we are underperforming at the half way point against my expectation of 6th with this squad. Sheff Utd are significantly over performing unless you think they will be a 58 point a season team from now on. It doesn't need much 'rationalising'.

It's our worst squad of the last 6 years and surprise, it's lower than the average of 5th over that time.