Agreed, a lot of WUM'in on here.
The “Ole In” Brigade
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Agreed, a lot of WUM'in on here.
Most fans from other teams love him at the moment.
Anyone who wants him to stay needs the head testing. They can jog on to Molde with him.
Can people not want him to stay for reasons other than him been good enough? Or are they 'trolls' too?
We 'could' be on the cusp of some sort of proper movement against the real villains at the club, sacking Ole now will only dampen this down, and brush all the crap under carpet once again, until next time of course.
We 'could' be on the cusp of some sort of proper movement against the real villains at the club, sacking Ole now will only dampen this down, and brush all the crap under carpet once again, until next time of course.
I don't think Molde will take him, they're doing better without him.
If not, just imagine how much their phone numbers would be worth, as a sucker list.
The opposite surely?
Trimming the squad, getting rid of deadwood & mercenaries, going back to our youth... all these things are the drum Ole beats and helps sweep lots under the carpet, certainly more than Mourinho for sure, who demanded and expected. Ole is just happy to be here.
Nah, my standards haven’t lowered as much as yours obviously
We’re a mess yes, but at least we’re a crap team full of youth and inexperience, as opposed to before when we were a crap team full of expensive wasters. Sadly I don’t see anything changing until the ownership sort themselves out, or go.
Nah, my standards haven’t lowered as much as yours obviously
Yet you're happy to go with a manager and his 37% win-rate. Who has the lower standards here?
So if Ole wins the EL this year and next season finishes 2nd with a 65% win rate you'll be on here after a slow start to the following year calling him a spectacular failure?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I've made no secret that I think Mourinho, LVG both ultimately failed here. The spectacular failures so far though are Moyes and OSG, how there is any question about this, well there simply isn't.
I think everyone wants new owners who will exile Ed to the money making side of things, and appoint an experienced DOF. Say that miracle happens tomorrow, guess what?
We've still got a shite manager.
We've still got a shite manager.
It's crazy looking at it now. I used to praise Ole for clearing deadwood and making good signings but sitting back and looking at things carefully he did neither of these things well and in a very naive manner.
Look at the deadwood he cleared
Herrera - Arguably our most consistent midfielder last season
Lukaku - Our only proven goalscorer and now challenging for golden boot in Italy
Smalling - Our best defender and currently one of the best defenders in Italy
Sanchez - No longer in the club but we are still paying his salary so he's still kind of there.
Damian - Absolute deadwood. Completely forgot he existed until he was sold
Young - Ole wanted him to stay
Looking at this should Ole even be praised for clearing deadwood. The most obvious ones Jones, Bailey, Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Matic and Rojo are still there.
Now look at his players he bought and try to fix them to his style of play. Ole plays a highline yet he insisted on signing a slow 80m defender to pair with another slow defender which is not suitable for a highline. Ole's full backs join in the attack and yet he insisted on signing AWB who is very limited in attack. Why sign James and play him out of position as a right winger?
So looking at this, some of the deadwood he cleared are questionable and his three signings are not suited to his style of play. I think this is one aspect apart from Ole's tactics that people haven't carefully looked at
Look at the deadwood he cleared
Herrera - Arguably our most consistent midfielder last season
Lukaku - Our only proven goalscorer and now challenging for golden boot in Italy
Smalling - Our best defender and currently one of the best defenders in Italy
Sanchez - No longer in the club but we are still paying his salary so he's still kind of there.
Damian - Absolute deadwood. Completely forgot he existed until he was sold
Young - Ole wanted him to stay
Looking at this should Ole even be praised for clearing deadwood. The most obvious ones Jones, Bailey, Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Matic and Rojo are still there.
Now look at his players he bought and try to fix them to his style of play. Ole plays a highline yet he insisted on signing a slow 80m defender to pair with another slow defender which is not suitable for a highline. Ole's full backs join in the attack and yet he insisted on signing AWB who is very limited in attack. Why sign James and play him out of position as a right winger?
So looking at this, some of the deadwood he cleared are questionable and his three signings are not suited to his style of play. I think this is one aspect apart from Ole's tactics that people haven't carefully looked at
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You'd want to keep a player like Lukaku for 1 year after the season he's had?
And the season he's having and the season we're having suggest I'm correct.
I'm not claiming he was the long term solution but he's certainly better than what we have at the moment. Don't claim Rashford has filled his role because they occupy different positions.
Going into the season with the inconsistent Martial and an unproven youngster was negligent and each game that passes where we struggle to score this decision looks increasingly stupid.
Yet you're happy to go with a manager and his 37% win-rate. Who has the lower standards here?
So if Ole wins the EL this year and next season finishes 2nd with a 65% win rate you'll be on here after a slow start to the following year calling him a spectacular failure?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I've made no secret that I think Mourinho, LVG both ultimately failed here. The spectacular failures so far though are Moyes and OSG, how there is any question about this, well there simply isn't.
If he spunks the kind of money and plays the kind of football Mourinho did, I surely will be calling him a spectacular failure as well. And calling his final year a “slow start” is understating it slightly. The guy fell apart before the season even started.
I said in another thread yesterday that I have changed to the Ole out camp but I still feel that he has the club in as good a position as we could reasonably expect when you look at the number of players sold/released and the injuries we have suffered this season. Maybe a great manager could squeeze a little more out of the squad but I doubt it as things stand.
We clearly are not going to be buying anyone in this window and the Glazers and Ed will hide behind Ole as we play out the remaining fixtures before a summer in which major surgery will be required. We are certain to lose players like Matic and Rojo and there is a very good chance Pogba is sold. We can probably say goodbye to Lingard and Jones if we can find anyone daft enough to buy them also.
For this reason I don't want a knee jerk sacking of Ole mid season, not only is he a legend and a generally decent man but he was also given an impossible task by an inept hierarchy. This does not take away from the fact that he is not the man to lead us back to the top but he deserves to go out with some dignity. I would personally prefer an exit at the end of the season with Ole moving into a club ambassador role if he wants it and a fresh approach with a new manager hired hand in hand with a Director of Football who share a unified vision. This will only work if the board is willing to make available significant transfer funds and hand over any money raised from player sales such as Pogba as the clearing out of the deadwood has left us not only lacking stars but a whole host of squad options just to manage a Premier League season. Sadly I doubt anything of the sort will happen and the slide will continue regardless of who is in the dugout.
We clearly are not going to be buying anyone in this window and the Glazers and Ed will hide behind Ole as we play out the remaining fixtures before a summer in which major surgery will be required. We are certain to lose players like Matic and Rojo and there is a very good chance Pogba is sold. We can probably say goodbye to Lingard and Jones if we can find anyone daft enough to buy them also.
For this reason I don't want a knee jerk sacking of Ole mid season, not only is he a legend and a generally decent man but he was also given an impossible task by an inept hierarchy. This does not take away from the fact that he is not the man to lead us back to the top but he deserves to go out with some dignity. I would personally prefer an exit at the end of the season with Ole moving into a club ambassador role if he wants it and a fresh approach with a new manager hired hand in hand with a Director of Football who share a unified vision. This will only work if the board is willing to make available significant transfer funds and hand over any money raised from player sales such as Pogba as the clearing out of the deadwood has left us not only lacking stars but a whole host of squad options just to manage a Premier League season. Sadly I doubt anything of the sort will happen and the slide will continue regardless of who is in the dugout.
I know, and he still had a better win rate that year than Ole this season
We’re still fixing the mess he left, and will be for some time.
Nothing says 'fixing the mess' like making the team worse.
But it sweeps nothing under the carpet if he does it badly, or more fairly isn't given the backing to do it well even if he did have the ability.
Are you wanting Ole to do a Jose and start moaning that we are doing things wrong, not getting the backing, etc? Well Jose was hated by most for doing that, and then gone quick as a flash, and now look at us, we are worse.
Fans aren't stupid they know it's not really Ole's fault, and we are starting to see the attention turning where it should be doing finally, so to me it makes sense for this to continue now to see if we get anywhere with it, rather than just sacking him and hoping things will be different this time.
Perhaps Ole is even in on it all, which is why he won't do the obvious thing and just walk away, rather than seeing himself getting tainted with all this , (I admit this bit sounds far fetched).
You’re right, we should have persevered with Sanchez, Lukaku and the rest, and the miserable pragmatic football we had made our own. We had some solid foundations right there.
Indeed. What possible benefit could we have gained from having Lukaku right now.
Not his first touch or effort, that’s for sure.
Certainly not his goals, either, right?
Well said.
I guess we’ll never know why we sold such a celebrated striker. The caf was in mourning that day.
I know. 'He only scores against crap teams like Burnley, Watford, Newcastle, etc'.
The Caf sure does know its football.
If the results have been good then we would all be here singing his praises. I honestly think he has the right ideas and truly wants set us on the right path, the problem is the execution of it.
I do wonder though how much of our problems are down to player quality/injuries and how much is down to (lack of) coaching and tactics. For the most part i think his team selections have been good and i honestly could not say what is wrong with the tactics, although i am not an expert. Subs are a bit slow at times, but mostly the correct ones. People lamenting about the likes of Lindgard coming on also have to remember we dont have much else to put on, which is a pretty sobering reminder of the state of our squad.
Regarding coaching there is one problem that i think everyone has noticed by now. We are fecking shit at both defending and attacking set pieces. Another thing i have noticed is how no one seems to take any responsibility on the ball and we have seemingly no one who tries to advance with the ball at their feet, and unless there is an obvious forward passing option, our attacks lose all momentum because we just shuffle it sideways
If(when) he get sacked i really hope he calls out Ed and the Glazers though
We can agree on that
Why? I would say that Ole out-brigade are clueless football fans, and to be frank, most football fans are clueless.
Tell me about Ole's track record as a manager and what others are missing that makes you so sure it's others that are clueless and not yourself.
Convince me this team needs major investment to beat Burnley (just one of many examples) who could barely keep the ball for more than 3 passes.
No one thinks Lukaku was the heir to Denis Law, Mark Hughes, Andy Cole, Ruud, Rooney, Robin etc.. But, if there was no obvious replacement, maybe we could have held onto him for one more year rather than run Rashford into the ground?
I did say that bit was far fetched to be fair, but still I doubt things are as all they seem with him.
Ole is deflecting nothing now, people know what's going on, and who's to blame.
I agree and have made these points myself this season. The bold bit is the most damning though. I like AWB defensively but I think it's crazy to expect him to be our attacking outlet down one side. If anything I would have thought Ole would have favoured a more attacking RB given that he talked about bringing exciting football back to OT when he took over. I just don't see his vision for this team at all, it feels completely thrown together.
You know his track record just as well as me.
Mediocre teams loses football matches. Just as Arsenal, Everton and us. And sometimes they win games against better sides, as us when we beat City. This is nothing new.
Its the rebuilding I trust Ole for, getting the right players in and letting the correct players leave. And at the same time letting us hungry players develop. So far its been alright.
Its finally a process and a plan behind what we do, if it takes 3 years for us to challenge then be it, but it sure as hell doesnt take one season to rebuild an entire club thats rotten.
If anybody buys into that then they would have been better served supporting Jose when he was here. At least he just made it obvious that Woodward was a problem. Like I said at the time, Jose was the only person involved with United that had the right standards befitting the club. The players were shirking responsibility and Woodward wouldn't accept his shortcomings and relinquish his control over football matters.
Lukaku needed to go. Our inability to conduct transfer business is the main problem, Fernandes being case in point.
After the quite incredible amount of stick Lukaku used to get on here even when he played well, it's an absolute cheek to even dare hint at criticising Ole or the club for letting him leave. Especially as Lukaku has made it quite clear he wanted to leave for a long time...according to himself he wanted to leave after his first ever game for us. According to this forum "We could never win the league with Lukaku as our no 9"
Herrera again was going to leave no matter what Ole did...it's dishonest to criticise him for that. No one with any sense would have called him deadwood and it's no secret he was on his way out.
Sanchez and Smalling are the strange ones. No problem with Sanchez leaving but we needed a replacement first. The fact we're paying him to play for someone else is just bizarre at this point. Smalling supposedly wanted games but I'm not sure why he was allowed to leave to get them considering we knew we were in 4 competitions and that without him Jones would play.
Of the ones you've listed, Mata isn't deadwood. Rojo we actually tried to sell, Matic and Lingard have only been used when there's been no other choice. Bailey has not played all season. The only one consistently playing through choice is Pereira and again, there actually isn't much choice as the alternatives to him are all included on your list! If we'd got rid of all these players we literally wouldn't be able to field a team at the moment.
Bissaka has been a very good signing and the "can't attack" stick people keep beating him with is getting very boring. He literally put two goals on a plate for our forwards just last night. He plays on the right wing on his own since whichever attacking player we put there just fecks off elsewhere. He's doing pretty well. James would be fine if we actually had a decent squad and could use him when it suits us and him, rather than all the time.
Maguire there is the odd one out as I think regardless of how we play, his defending is a liability. Instead of recognising this Ole has made him captain. It's a difficult situation since we paid so much for him but I do think Ole isn't doing himself any favours at this point. The guy I'm sure is trying his best, but he costs us goals nearly every week and is being rewarded for it. Managers are paid to recognise stuff like this.
Basically I think it's hit and miss and it's all just more piddling around the main issue which is that our squad just isn't very good and this is something that's been caused by some really poor squad management from Woodward. We had a situation last year where over a third of our squad were running their contracts down, and others outside of that wanted to leave, and on top of that a manager who clearly didn't want to be here for half a season. You can't replace half a squad in one summer even if you have someone more competent than Woodward handling things, so this season was always going to suffer from the consequences. I remember calling it over and over in the contracts thread last season. It was obvious, and now it is even more obvious because it has happened.
It's still going on as well. The Haaland thing baffles me beyond belief. He wanted to sign for us, and we wanted to sign him. We could have had one of the most sought after prospects in Europe, in a position we desperately need a player in...but we chose not to sign him because he wanted a buy out clause and this wouldn't give us control...what? What does this even mean? Worst case scenario is he would have signed and left for whatever his buyout clause was, which would still, obviously, be better than just not signing him. We have no striker. Who is making these decisions? If it is anything to do with Ole then obviously he takes the blame but it just stinks of Woodward yet again being an absolute idiot.
It's all well and good thinking we can do better than Ole but the problem is no manager can succeed here at the moment, and many manager with an ounce of sense wouldn't want to come until that changes.
Only if there is a replacement. And, if Ole was promised a replacement and was shafted, he should speak up rather than be a yes man. Otherwise we are pushing Marcus down the Owen/Fowler/Torres route.
As I keep saying, we have absolutely no proof that Ole is the right man, only strong evidence that he is not. Logically you would assume the Ole out guys to be correct. Do you disagree?
I agree this is a long process, I don't mind the idea. What I do mind is having a strong feeling that we are allowing the wrong guy to oversee such an important period. Based on what? It might just be the way I think or whatever, but it just seems pretty daft to me.
When Woodward sacked Jose and said we'll take the rest of the season to look at the structure behind the scenes and appoint a new manager, I actually thought the penny had finally dropped. Instead he gets over excited, appoints somebody with no track record and changes nothing major behind the scenes. Ole would never have been given the job if we stuck to that plan.