The Active Shooter Thread

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I was thinking about this from a game theory perspective and there seems only one answer from that point of view. In game theory you have to find the most effective deterrent. That isn't arming the teachers actually. Far from it as that doesn't solve the original deterrence equation.

What it would be is decreasing the chance any shooter can actually make it onto campus in the first place. Arming teachers does nothing to stop that and as pulling the fire alarm/using smoke grenades shows it might just increase the chaos and death.

No the entrance has to be hardened. You need one hard entry point into a school and that's it. That point has metal detector built it, the main office with bullet proof glass should overlook this one entry point and armed security guard/police should have an office that overlooks this one hard entry point. Additionally there should be known but random inspections of all school by additional police. Then serious blast proof doors should be installled in all classroom meaning that a lockdown ensures safety from bullets.

This would be a long term project as there are many nuances to actually hardening all schools into one hard entry point but its truly the only effective answer from a game theory deterrent.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The whole arming teachers thing is just a diversion. It’s not meant to be taken seriously. They’re doing exactly what they always do after one of these shootings. Spew a load of hot air until the initial outrage dies down and/or some other big story breaks and the gun control issue fades into the background.
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True. Republicans are just using the Fergie technique.
 
adexkola said:
Thoughts watching this:

1. How sure is he that there is no one down range that could be impacted by high velocity projectiles? Even in the wastes of Wyoming, there's a non-zero risk that there's some stragglers that might be impacted by such activities

2. The AR is a really sexy gun. Sleek and menacing. The engineering of the device is impressive too, much less recoil than I expected for the exit velocity. If I had a lot of spare cash I'd probably buy one, along with a shit-load of blanks, and play pretend COD in my briefs.

3. If required by law, I'd gladly give my theoretical AR up. My curiosity pales in comparison to the overall societal benefit of not having guns.

4. The bump stock is a really ingenious way (engineering wise) of bypassing the semi-auto restriction. It has no use outside of war, and should be banned. Shit, not many infantry soldiers have access to full auto capability, it's a waste of ammo. Worthless for hunting, useless for home self-defense. Plus it amplifies the damage a maniac can use.

5. Reading the video comments, the disconnect between American's jadedness with gun violence (I admit I'm guilty of this at times) and the rest of the world just screaming, "what the actual feck is wrong with you morons????", couldn't be more stark. That should be enough to give most Americans food for thought. I don't think there is any other country in the world where there is such an unhealthy attachment with advanced lethal slingshots. Unfortunately I think that justified reaction from youse' causes morons to shout "MURICA" and dig in deeper.
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How much would one of those cost?
 
Raoul said:
The NRA need a good counter campaign against them. Would be great if a group of lefty billionaires pooled about 10b into a fund to discredit them, their leadership, and launch relentless ads against any politician that accepts money from them.
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There’s no money to be made from people going without something. Which is why on the other hand marijuana legislation for one has a chance once the politicians start seeing the dollar signs.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
There’s no money to be made from people going without something. Which is why on the other hand marijuana legislation for one has a chance once the politicians start seeing the dollar signs.
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I wasn't advocating politicians do it. Billionaires with lots of money who are anti-gun could start a fund that replenishes itself and is dedicated exclusively towards taking down the NRA through public campaigns.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
There’s no money to be made from people going without something. Which is why on the other hand marijuana legislation for one has a chance once the politicians start seeing the dollar signs.
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Insurance companies. They'd make a shit-ton of money from insuring guns.
 
If I was American, I think I'd own one too. I play game and always wanted to feel what it is like to shoot one.
But that's the problem, I'd buy one because I want one. Not because I need one.
Everything else is just mental gymnastics.
Americans should admit it.
Thinking about it, I don't even think I'd buy one. Going to the range would be enough for me.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I was thinking about this from a game theory perspective and there seems only one answer from that point of view. In game theory you have to find the most effective deterrent. That isn't arming the teachers actually. Far from it as that doesn't solve the original deterrence equation.

What it would be is decreasing the chance any shooter can actually make it onto campus in the first place. Arming teachers does nothing to stop that and as pulling the fire alarm/using smoke grenades shows it might just increase the chaos and death.

No the entrance has to be hardened. You need one hard entry point into a school and that's it. That point has metal detector built it, the main office with bullet proof glass should overlook this one entry point and armed security guard/police should have an office that overlooks this one hard entry point. Additionally there should be known but random inspections of all school by additional police. Then serious blast proof doors should be installled in all classroom meaning that a lockdown ensures safety from bullets.

This would be a long term project as there are many nuances to actually hardening all schools into one hard entry point but its truly the only effective answer from a game theory deterrent.
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You'd also need to put bars on windows, brick up the other doors into the school and build tall walls all the way around campus with barbed wire on top for good measure, while ignoring that all the above would be a nightmare if there's a fire.
 
Grinner said:
How can that type of ammunition be permitted? What is the argument for needing it?
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You would think common sense suggests that we dont need to be selling that to citizens but none of the Republican senators have any common sense.
 
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CNN said:
Florida lawmakers advance a bill that requires 'In God We Trust' displayed on school grounds'

A Florida lawmaker has introduced a bill that requires public schools to display the motto "In God We Trust," saying that while gun violence is a problem, "issues of the heart" need addressing as well.
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PoliticalDig said:
Samantha Fuentes, a student who survived the February 14 mass shooting at a high school in Parkland, Florida, had some harsh words for President Donald Drumpf, who she said called her on the phone while she was recovering in the hospital.

Fuentes told The New York Times she did not feel comforted by Trump, who she said seemed insincere during their phone conversation.

“He said he heard that I was a big fan of his, and then he said, ‘I’m a big fan of yours, too.’ I’m pretty sure he made that up,” Fuentes told The Times in a story published Thursday night.

“Talking to the president, I’ve never been so unimpressed by a person in my entire life,” Fuentes said. “He didn’t make me feel better in the slightest.”
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Grinner said:
How can that type of ammunition be permitted? What is the argument for needing it?
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It just is. There’s no argument that can be made for it outside of the military and police forces, which is who it was designed for.

SS109 and XM855 are the technical terms. They can be bought off the shelves of any gun store I’ve ever been to.

ATF moved to ban the sale of those two types of rounds in 2015, but reversed its decision a couple of months later.
 
Adisa said:
If I was American, I think I'd own one too. I play game and always wanted to feel what it is like to shoot one.
But that's the problem, I'd buy one because I want one. Not because I need one.
Everything else is just mental gymnastics.
Americans should admit it.
Thinking about it, I don't even think I'd buy one. Going to the range would be enough for me.
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Pretty much and similar to @adexkola . I've shot a couple of times, and recently some actual tactical weapons at a range (before just hunting types). I've always been interested in firearms, but I think as an offshoot of interest in war, mechanical things, and also the videogames I've played.

The systems are interesting from a mechanical point of view, gun safety is a good exercise in thinking about risk and prevention + awareness, and shooting effectively is a skill which has a very long curve. I'd own one for the interest, but UK-style gun legislation is much much healthier for society in general.
 
How about just having Skype classes from now on? Everyone stays at home and fires up their government-supplied webcam during the school day. That, surely, is the most practical solution.
 
Damien said:
You'd also need to put bars on windows, brick up the other doors into the school and build tall walls all the way around campus with barbed wire on top for good measure, while ignoring that all the above would be a nightmare if there's a fire.
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I don't deny its a troublesome issue, expensive and has other potential problems (you'd have to have gates that could be opened for a fire for instance) but that's really the only way to completely harden a school enough to completely deter shooters. You'd wouldn't need barb wire btw, I have seen some schools with steel gates/fencing around them which is enough as it can't really be scaled - I'll try to take a picture next time I see one like that and show you.


Carolina Red said:
The guy in Florida shot straight through the cinder block walls.

M855 “penetrator” rounds can go through an engine block.
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Definitely a problem. There is not one size fits all solution. Personally I think a lot of different measures on different levels need to be taken. Limiting ammunition like that is certainly something to be on the list though I imagine that is one area the NRA holds firm on.
 


But.......But..But.....something something "free speech", something something "purging conservatives", blah blah blah.
 
RDCR07 said:
What does being black have to do with overrated? Come to think of it whats overrated got to do any of those things you mentioned? If you are intelligent and kind and black you will be overrated?
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I think if you ignore him being Black, you're missing what is going to be unfortunately his biggest legacy. Him being black polarized the country. The racists lost their fecking minds and voted for Trump as a result, and on the other hand, I think you see people rating him higher than he deserves because he is black. I'll address this in a separate paragraph. He got a Nobel peace prize what, a month into his presidency? I like Obama, I think he is the most likable president the US has had in my lifetime. I think he did a good job despite the shit he had to deal with. I think that he was well intentioned, but ultimately he was faced with the massive realities of racism in the USA which yanked congress away from him, and that congress went on to restrict him and battle him on virtually every single issue they could.

Obama being rated higher than he I think he deserves or being "overrated" could definitely be down to that push back effect you see from groups of people arguing over something. The more extreme one side gets, the more entrenched and extreme the other side can become. With Obama, on one side you had a group of people saying he was the worst president in history. That he was actively trying to destroy the country. That he was trying to subvert the country into a Muslim caliphate. On the other side, it's natural for people to defend him and to build him up in the face of that. Like I said, he won a Nobel peace prize. He won it for "President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples". For people reading between the lines, that's an award for "You're a black man who won the presidency in a country (the strongest and wealthiest country in the world) that still has a very racist element within it, that's amazing".

I haven't personally broken down every president, or run through a list of great ones, other than the obvious ones. However I can say off hand that he isn't anywhere near the top 5, and that I doubt he is in the top 10, just based on my knowledge of presidents, which means he almost certainly has no chance once I really started to dig into the subject. He still did very well, but I think a lot of people are rating him on what he might have done, rather than what he did do considering the constraints he faced.
 
Shameful stuff. The families of the deceased will be fuming at this cowardly behaviour.

 
Teachers are supposed to be educators. Not carry guns around and risk their own lives. Imagine you're a teacher and the government tells ya "Sonny, can you start carrying a gun on ya just in case some nut job decides to show up at your school? You're the line of first defence!"

No way will teachers ever agree to this. Baffling why people can't see that increasing the number of guns around children will only lead to more disaster.
 
SoCross said:
Teachers are supposed to be educators. Not carry guns around and risk their own lives. Imagine you're a teacher and the government tells ya "Sonny, can you start carrying a gun on ya just in case some nut job decides to show up at your school? You're the line of first defence!"

No way will teachers ever agree to this. Baffling why people can't see that increasing the number of guns around children will only lead to more disaster.
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I'd at least ask for a payrise if being a (presumably) trained killer is being added to my list of responsibilities

Also it's America.. . How long before a teacher goes nuts and starts shooting up their class.. . Then what... arm all students?

Actually thinking it through the nra would probably think that's a good idea
 
Raulduke said:


But.......But..But.....something something "free speech", something something "purging conservatives", blah blah blah.
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That absolute prick Alex Jones is the same guy who said that sandy hook was just actors. He is a complete nut job but this is the kind of thinking that is becoming mainstream in America.
 
SoCross said:
Teachers are supposed to be educators. Not carry guns around and risk their own lives. Imagine you're a teacher and the government tells ya "Sonny, can you start carrying a gun on ya just in case some nut job decides to show up at your school? You're the line of first defence!"

No way will teachers ever agree to this. Baffling why people can't see that increasing the number of guns around children will only lead to more disaster.
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I don't think there is a single poster on this forum that doesn't agree with every word you wrote. Unfortunately in the US we have the NRA and pretty every GOP politician disagreeing or at least putting their heads in the sand.
 


Despicable scum using his own sons tragedy to try to smear CNN. His son however went on Fox and spread the same lies. You would have hoped he was old enough to know better.

This is how bad things have got folks. Kids get shot at school and then lie on TV to promote the agenda of his parents views which mirror that of the lying President of the country.

Damn, the bottom of that barrel looks miles away again. feck my life.
 
langster said:


Despicable scum using his own sons tragedy to try to smear CNN. His son however went on Fox and spread the same lies. You would have hoped he was old enough to know better.

This is how bad things have got folks. Kids get shot at school and then lie on TV to promote the agenda of his parents views which mirror that of the lying President of the country.

Damn, the bottom of that barrel looks miles away again. feck my life.
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Horrible stuff.
 
Greg Gutfeld, Fox News:

"You have to be rational about it, which means hardening soft targets (ie schoolchildren) through drills and training. Learning combat. Learning hand-to-hand combat. This works, by the way, for terror, if there’s a terror attack, and it works for school shootings. How do you improve upon this rationally? Well, you train them. That simple."
 
SteveJ said:
Greg Gutfeld, Fox News:

"You have to be rational about it, which means hardening soft targets (ie schoolchildren) through drills and training. Learning combat. Learning hand-to-hand combat. This works, by the way, for terror, if there’s a terror attack, and it works for school shootings. How do you improve upon this rationally? Well, you train them. That simple."
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Have you seen that cnut? He's like the most precious little snowflake on the planet. He couldn't knock himself out let alone anyone else. Why anyone listens to him is beyond me. Hate filled little dwarf.
 
Rado_N said:
Unfortunately this is the kind of dumb feck mind on the other side:

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I know mate, It's a fight against ignorance and stupidity as well as political ideals. Trumps latest Tweet backs this type of moron up too.

I bet the NRA are screaming with delight as the contracts they will get from Trumps plan will far outweigh what has been lost from losing sponsors and advertising partners.
 
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