The anti-Giggs sentiment

redspoony

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2004
Messages
4,520
Location
The City of Salford.
I can understand some apprehension from some in terms of him being our next manager, butsome of our set's a bit over the top.

I'm not sure I want him as manager but isn't some of the sentiment against him a bit over the top?

I'm not trolling here, but I wouldn't mind some people elaborating (sensibly) I their stance against Giggs.
 
Bestie07 said:
It's not anti Giggs as much as it is anti risk. We're not at a stage as a football club where we can afford to make a wrong appointment.
Click to expand...
That's fair enough, and something I agree with but some of what I've seen posted just smacks of being anti-Giggs, harking back to sack Fergie Sell Giggs.
 
Manchester United should not be hiring managers without experience. It's not more complicated than that.
 
I don't see it as anti Giggs, just a reality check, and aversion to a huge gamble after two appointments that appear to have failed.
 
There's a lot of people who deduce how footballers and managers actually are depending on their generic interviews on MOTD.
 
Samid said:
Manchester United should not be hiring managers without experience. It's not more complicated than that.
Click to expand...
This is how I see it. And please don't bring up Guardiola, he actually had experience managing (for more than 4 meaningless games) before he took the Barca job.
 
Column Against Giggs

1. Giggs has been a common factor in our decline since Moyes.

2. Has not managed a club before, let alone one of the biggest clubs in the world. Zero experience.

3. Unproven in terms of footballing identity and approach due to the reason above. How do we know he can create a system that produces technical, attacking play? We don't. It's just a perception that he can because he was part of Fergie's class of 92.

4. We are at a critical stage where we cannot, cannot cannot afford to screw things up. We are in relegation form at the moment and have been playing the worst football ever in our recent history. We need someone who is a proven winner and who can effect short term improvement to arrest our free falling.

5. Unsure how he would handle the Rooney situation or how he would reshape the team for that matter.

6. Pep and Mourinho are quite possibly available. Both are proven winners.

Column For Giggs

1. We can't say for sure that he will be a terrible manager. Who knows? He might blow everyone away.



Conclusion: Not a difficult choice is it?
 
I just don't like the idea that his playing career is any indication as to how good a manager he is.

I don't like the way he's obviously being groomed for the job and in such poor circumstances. If Van Gaal was a huge success it might make some sense for Giggsy to offer continuity by taking over the reins with the same team in place. As it is, Van Gaal will be leaving under poor circumstances and it's absolutely no job for an inexperienced coach.
 
Chorley1974 said:
I don't see it as anti Giggs, just a reality check, and aversion to a huge gamble after two appointments that appear to have failed.
Click to expand...
Is Giggs THAT much of a gamble, considering we mIght miss out on Mourinho and will almost certainly miss out on Guardiola?

Klopp has gone to the dippers, Ancelotti is confirmed for Bayern.

There's a paucity of quality, experienced and readily available manager's out there. Giggs knows what is expected.
 
To me it is as clear cut as- what gives him the right to take over a club like Manchester United with no credentials as a manager...he needs to go away, gain experience like everyone else and not sit there waiting for it to be handed to him on a plate. This has nothing to do with how long he has been at United or how good a player he might have been...completely different job.
 
It's been very OTT recently. Just as the assumption that Giggs must be terrible at his job because we are playing bad football right now, as if any of us know what Giggs' remit is, and what exactly he is doing poorly. The way some people evaluate the goings-on within United right now, you would think they are at Carrington everyday, analysing every move of every member of staff, and know themselves how to do the job better. It's a lot of shite.

I don't want Giggs to be the manager either, but if he gets it, then he gets it. He's being written off as a shit, hopeless, embarrassing choice, before even being given a chance.
 
redspoony said:
Is Giggs THAT much of a gamble, considering we mIght miss out on Mourinho and will almost certainly miss out on Guardiola?

Klopp has gone to the dippers, Ancelotti is confirmed for Bayern.

There's a paucity of quality, experienced and readily available manager's out there. Giggs knows what is expected.
Click to expand...

yes, putting in a rookie manager would be a huge gamble
 
People like to have fancy European names they can brag about to their mates.

Rooney, Jones and Giggs out. No to Bale.

Giggsinho sounds good, though.
 
redspoony said:
Is Giggs THAT much of a gamble, considering we mIght miss out on Mourinho and will almost certainly miss out on Guardiola?

Klopp has gone to the dippers, Ancelotti is confirmed for Bayern.

There's a paucity of quality, experienced and readily available manager's out there. Giggs knows what is expected.
Click to expand...
We are only going to miss out on Mourinho if we consciously choose Giggs over him. Besides this fact there are still many more suitable candidates than Giggs.
 
I think Mourinho is a bigger gamble. I might make a thread later explaining it all. It comes down to how different his philosophy is from the one that prevails at United right now. Moyes was too much of a change from Fergie. LvG too much of a change from Moyes.

Giggs is the best choice next to knit it all together. Evolution not revolution. Football isn't a jigsaw puzzle where you simply slot piece A into slot B.
 
Personally i don't hate giggs at all, loved him as a player, and i try not to judge anyone based on his personal life.

There seems to be a special treatment for him around the club though. His coaching gig with moyes didn't seem strange at the time, the whole thing eventually didn't go well, but giggs got himself a promotion, with no experience whatsoever in management, to an assistant manager with van gaal, while being touted as the next united manager by fergie and van gaal himself, and once again things aren't going well at all.

We've watched enough football to know that club legends don't necessarily make good managers, and many clubs have walked that path before and ended failing. I haven't even seen yet anything from giggs to indicate that he'd make a good manager, nothing, not even a successful run with the youth.

At a time when our clubs is struggling with transition, it'd be irresponsible to give the job to someone with no experience in management and who's been a part of 2 failing regimes, and as someone pointed in an article the other day, giggs either partly responsible for this or he's ineffective and in both cases he deserves some stick for what's happening now.

The club is bigger than giggs, it's that simple.
 
Simply no experience, been around since Moyes days and doesn't seem to take responsibility or have influence which is a bit worrying.
 
Dante said:
I think Mourinho is a bigger gamble. I might make a thread later explaining it all. It comes down to how different his philosophy is from the one that prevails at United right now. Moyes was too much of a change from Fergie. LvG too much of a change from Moyes.

Giggs is the best choice next to knit it all together. Evolution not revolution. Football isn't a jigsaw puzzle where you simply slot piece A into slot B.
Click to expand...

If I owned a business the size of MUFC I know who'd I'd employ out of the two.
 
He clearly wants the United job, and yet he won't go anywhere else to build up his experience, therefore by logical deduction he thinks it's acceptable to stick around until it falls into his lap. May or may not be true, but it doesn't make me feel great about him managing our club.

I also find it distasteful that in 18 months of being assistant to LVG he's never once publicly praised or supported the guy, despite him constantly coming under fire - often from some of his closest friends in the media.

In a weird way I actually want him to get the job, because either he will succeed, which will be great obviously, or he will fail and future managers will not have the spectre of Giggs and the Class of 92 forever sniping and implying they know better.
 
Chorley1974 said:
If I owned a business the size of MUFC I know who'd I'd employ out of the two.
Click to expand...
The board will be in constant contact with the coaching and playing staff. They'll be getting reports on Giggs progress and won't appoint unless everything points to him being suited to the role. What the fans see, or don't see, isn't indicative of very much.
 
Dante said:
I think Mourinho is a bigger gamble. I might make a thread later explaining it all. It comes down to how different his philosophy is from the one that prevails at United right now. Moyes was too much of a change from Fergie. LvG too much of a change from Moyes.

Giggs is the best choice next to knit it all together. Evolution not revolution. Football isn't a jigsaw puzzle where you simply slot piece A into slot B.
Click to expand...

Evolution? if he takes the job, he'll go as far away from van gaal's philosophy as possible, it won't be the same football style or training methods.
 
Hammerfell said:
This is how I see it. And please don't bring up Guardiola, he actually had experience managing (for more than 4 meaningless games) before he took the Barca job.
Click to expand...
Was it succession planning though.

Liverpool did very well by promoting from the backroom staff post Shankly. I still feel they screwed up by deviating from that policy and going for KKK. He may have got them some short term success but they then struggled for many years because of the mess left behind.

There are not many teams that have continued success when bringing in managers with different styles.

As others have said, Giggs has now been part of 2 back room staff at United. Neither seemed to be what the fans want. Is he really ready to take on building a new foundation. I am not too sure. I would prefer someone who has a history of attacking football and good management skills.
 
Dante said:
The board will be in constant contact with the coaching and playing staff. They'll be getting reports on Giggs progress and won't appoint unless everything points to him being suited to the role. What the fans see, or don't see, isn't indicative of very much.
Click to expand...

Sorry but after what we have witnessed over the last three years I wouldn't trust the judgement of anyone at the club right now, Giggs is an almighty risk even he was to take with the club at the top, to even contemplate giving it to him now is beyond what I think is possible, but then again you just never know with them atm.

The other factor is the wave of despair that the fans would feel, the majority would hate it and it'd put a real downer on things, surely a new manager is supposed to have the reverse effect.
 
We shouldn't be appointing a manager based on nothing more than sentiment and romanticism.

That was the logic applied when we appointed Moyes, hoping that a punt on another young, Scottish manager would work and we all know how that turned out. Except Giggs has no experience as a manager anywhere.

Giggs doesn't even particularly strike me as much of a leader. Even out of the Class of 92, Gary Neville seems to be more of a leader than him. The United job requires a massive personality; Giggs is not that.

Simply put - I've no confidence in Giggs getting the best out of our players, having the pull to attract top class players or being good enough tactically.
 
I think its more the case of people who do not want managers to be hired solely out of nepotism. However I agree some people do take things a bit overboard
 
Someone said:
Evolution? if he takes the job, he'll go as far away from van gaal's philosophy as possible, it won't be the same football style or training methods.
Click to expand...
The defensive side of the game has been working ok. He only needs to loosen the reins in the attacking third. Seeing as Giggs has been mentored for a coaching role by LvG for the last 18 months, I see nothing to suggest it'd be such a huge departure. All that's required are tweaks.

Lest we forget, but LvG was doing well until the last 7 games. But now he's lost the dressing room, we have no choice but to get a new man at the helm. Changing too much at once could be counter-productive, though.

Changing too much was Moyes' downfall after Fergie and also the reason for LvG's shitty start after Moyes. If Mourinho tries to make the squad do things they're not suited to do, it could be years before we recover. I mean, look at how badly they reacted to having chips taken off the menu.

It's taken this long to erase the spectre of SAF from the dressing room. Doing the same thing for LvG would kill our season. Giggs will keep things ticking over at worst. He'll be a success at best. It's something he's been preparing for and knows how to do.
 
Pexbo said:
I just don't like the idea that his playing career is any indication as to how good a manager he is.

I don't like the way he's obviously being groomed for the job and in such poor circumstances. If Van Gaal was a huge success it might make some sense for Giggsy to offer continuity by taking over the reins with the same team in place. As it is, Van Gaal will be leaving under poor circumstances and it's absolutely no job for an inexperienced coach.
Click to expand...
I agree with that but I can add how I don't like the favouritism he has been a beneficiary of since Fergie retired. The coaching job under Moyes was understandable but how he went from that to assistant manager and heir apparent doesn't sit well with me. Looking at Queroz, Phelan and Walter Smith it's apparent that Fergie wanted and always went for highly qualified assistant managers, imagine Real Madrid actually poached our assistant manager to take him as their head coach! If Fergie placed such a high bar on his #2s why has the board that he sits on seen it fit to force an inexperienced one on LVG? It feels like those within the club have an obsession with the idea of Giggs becoming our manager hence rushing him through the stages which might end up undermining his development as a manager.
 
The documentary below really put me off, he just lacks the level of intelligence and inspiration that i'd expect from our manager.



The 'tactical discussion' with the coaches at 26:50 was particularly worrying, as was the pre-match discussion with the squad at 38:10.
 
Rado_N said:
Yea, it's his name, that's what it is.
Click to expand...
Yeah man, that was an odd, odd post to say the least. Unless of course it was said tongue in cheek. It's a sad sad individual who goes to brag to their mates about their new foreign named coach of United :lol:

These days you can never be sure though.
 
Appointing Giggs just feels too romantic to me, its a bit like when the Geordies got Shearer in thinking it would save them from relegation.

If United were to go with Giggs I would obviously want him to succeed. The losing streak we have been on since Sir Alex retired must be broken. Its a massive risk to give the job to Giggs when he has no real credentials. The four games he had as manager after Moyes were not a resounding success. We lost to Sunderland and got pretty much outplayed at Southampton.

My fear is, if Giggs is appointed, a year from now we´ll be wondering why we did not appoint one of the few managers besides Sir Alex to actually win a Premier League.
 
Pexbo said:
I just don't like the idea that his playing career is any indication as to how good a manager he is.

I don't like the way he's obviously being groomed for the job and in such poor circumstances. If Van Gaal was a huge success it might make some sense for Giggsy to offer continuity by taking over the reins with the same team in place. As it is, Van Gaal will be leaving under poor circumstances and it's absolutely no job for an inexperienced coach.
Click to expand...

This basically.
 
Avram Grant took Chelsea to within one point and a John Terry penalty kick of overshadowing one of United's greatest ever sides in the League/Europe. He took over the hot seat in September and did little more than keep the previous manager's tactics in place after the dressing room had been lost. Giggs only needs to do an LvG impression between now and the end of the season - something he's been preparing for for ages. If he does any better, give him the role permanently.
 
Dante said:
Changing too much was Moyes' downfall after Fergie and also the reason for LvG's shitty start after Moyes. If Mourinho tries to make the squad do things they're not suited to do, it could be years before we recover. I mean, look at how badly they reacted to having chips taken off the menu.

It's taken this long to erase the spectre of SAF from the dressing room. Doing the same thing for LvG would kill our season. Giggs will keep things ticking over at worst. He'll be a success at best. It's something he's been preparing for and knows how to do.
Click to expand...
The difference is that the players loved and respected Ferguson, and that's one reason why him leaving was such a shock and affected the club so much. If the players are happy for Van Gaal to leave then that is completely different, we would arguably see an up turn in form like many teams do when a new manager is appointed. I don't know how you can say Giggs will "keep things ticking over at worst" because he could be an absolute disaster - and what does that even mean? That things will carry on the way they are currently, absolutely shocking form that will see us plummet down the table?
 
Leftback99 said:
The documentary below really put me off, he just lacks the level of intelligence and inspiration that i'd expect from our manager.



The 'tactical discussion' with the coaches at 26:50 was particularly worrying, as was the pre-match discussion with the squad at 38:10.
Click to expand...

Butt does most of the talking in the bits that have been edited in. Pretty harsh to hang Giggs for that. What do you think he says wrong?
 
Dante said:
The defensive side of the game has been working ok. He only needs to loosen the reins in the attacking third. Seeing as Giggs has been mentored for a coaching role by LvG for the last 18 months, I see nothing to suggest it'd be such a huge departure. All that's required are tweaks.

Lest we forget, but LvG was doing well until the last 7 games. But now he's lost the dressing room, we have no choice but to get a new man at the helm. Changing too much at once could be counter-productive, though.

Changing too much was Moyes' downfall after Fergie and also the reason for LvG's shitty start after Moyes. If Mourinho tries to make the squad do things they're not suited to do, it could be years before we recover. I mean, look at how badly they reacted to having chips taken off the menu.

It's taken this long to erase the spectre of SAF from the dressing room. Doing the same thing for LvG would kill our season. Giggs will keep things ticking over at worst. He'll be a success at best. It's something he's been preparing for and knows how to do.
Click to expand...

Most good managers know how to handle transition, when Ranieri took over Leicester city, he didn't want to make any changes because the team finished the season on a high, and it paid off. Only common sense was needed then, and that common sense has abandoned van gaal when he tore it all down and thought he'd teach everyone how football should be played again. it wasn't actually a success, he's done exactly the same as moyes while spending more money in the process. So i'm not sure what are we holding on to here and what makes giggs an important element in the future.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.