Grant also took over a team that had won the league 2 of the previous 3 years. The talent in the squad wasn't the problem. In United's case, it is.
The anti-Giggs sentiment
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I am going to exclude the usual ammo against him. What i am afraid of, is the fact that he stood next to 2 managers and didn't have a positive influence. It is true, we can't say this for sure. It is also true that he is not the main man. However, as someone brought up in the club and who we believe should have the passion and fire for the club, he doesn't look like able to make a difference. At least in the locker room, giving advise to younger players and being authority. It is strange to me that one of the best wingers can't influence our young wingers and they are pretty bad. I am afraid he isn't a leader and a strong enough force.
PS: Blown jobs are the best jobs. Sorry, couldn't resist.
PS: Blown jobs are the best jobs. Sorry, couldn't resist.
I don't think he'll be a good manager and come to think of it I don't want United to be managed by the sort of bloke who shags his brothers missus for years either. Mainly the first one though. We're at such a critical point now, we need the next appointment to be as low risk as possible. A top 5 in the world sort of manager.
And another thing. All this faux outrage on here whilst Rhodri and Ryan have buried the hatchet.
Nobody knows how he'd adapt once he becomes manager. You can gauge some things off monitoring him as assistant but most of the important stuff won't become evident until he's in the thick of it. That's far too big a gamble for a club of United's size to take. I don't think you'll find anyone who would oppose him if he went and got some experience elsewhere and did well.
Assuming they have, what difference does it make?
I have yet to see a single coherent argument as to why Giggs should be manager. So far, it has been limited to "you can't prove he would fail", "Guardiola did it" (ignoring 100 other former players who didn't succeed in management) and, best of all, some analogy with Avram Grant. If, despite the club's huge revenues, we want a genuine shot at going 10 plus years of being irrelevant like in the 70s and 80s, Giggs represents the most likely way of going down that road compared to realistic alternative managers.
I just find it hilarious that all involved have moved on whilst a section of the caf haven't
The Moral Majority is alive and well it seems
I just find it hilarious that all involved have moved on whilst a section of the caf haven't
The Moral Majority is alive and well it seems
It's got nothing to do with moving on. We're discussing Giggs becoming United's manager here and his character bares some relevance to that.
I have absolutely no desire to go into this anymore. Go throw your stones somewhere else but mind that glass
Weak.
Giggs needs to manage another club first. There's no time to learn the job -- this job -- while doing the job. How many years would we given him...three, four?
Good decision. You'll just make yourself look even more foolish.
So is Ed Woodward, Wayne Rooney, Michael Carrick, David De Gea, playing at Old Trafford, wearing red shirts.
Same as Pep then before Barca*, but a valid concern none the less.
*yes I know he did 1 season in charge of the kids in the 4th tier of spanish football.
Is this worse than appointing a manager with a track record of not playing attacking football?
Anyway this is the same point as point 2, just reworded to create a larger list in this column.
Proven winner like LVG? Except he has created this relegation form. Again though, this is the same point as point 2, just reworded to create a larger list in this column. Afterall, Giggs knows a thing or two about winning, so you must mean as a manager.... i.e. point 2.
Point shouldn't be on this list, applies to any manager coming in.
Forget Pep, but ok, the availability of Mourinho counts as a negative against not only Giggs but every other manager other than Jose?
In conclusion, the argument against Giggs boils down to just 1 or 2 points really, and that's the experience one and the possible availability of someone more experienced. As we know with LVG, that can count for absolutely nothing too, but maybe he's an exception.
Pardew, Hughes, Martinez, Koeman... I'd rather have any of these and more before Giggs never mind the Guardiola's and Mourinho's of the world.
I just cannot get my head around it, I can't see it being a success at all. He doesn't strike me as a tactical person, his comments during that documentary and his press conference were pretty basic putting it kindly. He doesn't appear to be a great motivator or have any sort of charisma.
Quite frankly I don't know what he offers other than that he knows the club well (as a player).
If he's our legitimate succession plan then I really do fear for our future.
EDIT: And how could I miss the most obvious point, he has absolutely no managerial experience bar 4 games in charge of a team who's season was over. 4 fecking games.
I just cannot get my head around it, I can't see it being a success at all. He doesn't strike me as a tactical person, his comments during that documentary and his press conference were pretty basic putting it kindly. He doesn't appear to be a great motivator or have any sort of charisma.
Quite frankly I don't know what he offers other than that he knows the club well (as a player).
If he's our legitimate succession plan then I really do fear for our future.
EDIT: And how could I miss the most obvious point, he has absolutely no managerial experience bar 4 games in charge of a team who's season was over. 4 fecking games.
While I agree with you that it would be a waste not take to advantage of the work LvG has done so far, I don't agree that Giggs necessarily will continue along the same path. He's played under one manager his entire career and is likely to me way more influenced by him than by Louie. Out of curiosity, what makes you think that Giggs will want to continue our patient building from the back and our pressing (the strongest aspects of our current game, imo) and improve our play in the final third simultaneously? Isn't it just as likely that he will prefer a more classic, direct, counter-attacking approach?
DDG, Rooney, Carrick, Old Trafford, and the red jerseys were all around for the Fergie Era.
He also inherited a world all-star team that needed little change--just someone to get the squad to play cohesively. Manchester United is not in that position.
There's risk involved in any hire. LVG hasn't made the decisions many had hoped, and the team is underperforming. It sucks, but it happens. The board still needs to make the smart choice with their next manager. Mourinho is more of a splitting aces kind of gamble, whereas Giggs is betting the house on 00.
Against giggs : put on 10 bullets point of why giggs isn't suitable, listed out 20 examples why he is likely to fail based on other similar united legend dipping into managerial job, 2 succession of bad result under 2 manager, etc etc
Pro giggs : you're having an agenda
Now who's takint the easy way out?
Pro giggs : you're having an agenda
Now who's takint the easy way out?
I've found it all a bit strange... the anti-Giggs sentiment.
What's wrong with just saying that there are more experienced managers who they would find preferable to Giggs? No problem and a completely valid and popular opinion.
The amount of stupid arguments and attempts to discredit him are absolutely laughable though. Bringing up the affair, a couple of scenes in a TV documentary, his body language from the coaching bench... even photos of his facial expression during a 90 minute match. Apparently one showed that he was delighted we got beat by Stoke?! Bizarre.
I'm pretty sure the Manchester United board will not be making their decision based on the RedCafe postings so all of the vitriol is completely unnecessary.
What's wrong with just saying that there are more experienced managers who they would find preferable to Giggs? No problem and a completely valid and popular opinion.
The amount of stupid arguments and attempts to discredit him are absolutely laughable though. Bringing up the affair, a couple of scenes in a TV documentary, his body language from the coaching bench... even photos of his facial expression during a 90 minute match. Apparently one showed that he was delighted we got beat by Stoke?! Bizarre.
I'm pretty sure the Manchester United board will not be making their decision based on the RedCafe postings so all of the vitriol is completely unnecessary.
Pretty much. The team needs a lot of work to avoid becoming falling further down the table, and some people think a near complete level of inexperience is the way to go. I'm not seeing it.
He's been mentored by LvG for 18 months. Day in, day out. Learning the logistics for how to train defence/attack, various drills, scouting and how to pick tactical approaches depending counter opponents. The majority of what he knows about the everyday aspects of management will have come from van Gaal.
Exactly, I get the preference for someone with experience. However, what we have here is a strong and personal agenda against Giggs. For all he's done for our club you'd expect people wouldn't so fervently oppose his involvement at the club.
And he was coached by SAF for 20-25 years very, very successful years. Isn't more likely that he will prefer that philosophy to this one?
Also, if continuity is one of your main arguments, wouldn't it be better to get someone similar to LvG, but with some experience?
He just comes across a bit slow and limp.
I don't see any leadership qualities that would give me cause to think that he would be a successful manager of United.
I've loved him all his playing career, I think he's a top top player, but this job will be tough for the most hardened and experienced managers currently in the game. I think it'd be suicidal letting him take over.
Nothing other than this... it's nothing personal. Just this really.
I don't see any leadership qualities that would give me cause to think that he would be a successful manager of United.
I've loved him all his playing career, I think he's a top top player, but this job will be tough for the most hardened and experienced managers currently in the game. I think it'd be suicidal letting him take over.
Nothing other than this... it's nothing personal. Just this really.
I've spent a lot of time at schools in my career. I teach the way I was trained to teach as an adult, not the way I was taught when I was a schoolkid myself. Training always takes over from instinct when the pressure is on.
There is anti Giggs in terms of not thinking he is ready to manage Utd and arguments based on his experience and readiness. Then there are the anti Giggs sentiments which uses character assassination and assumption.
I don't care about his personal life or any of that other guff, I simply don't want him as manager. There are better options: Pep and Mourinho (obviously) but then other PL managers like, Poch, Pardew, Martinez... all of those would come with good track records of playing good, attacking football. On top of that, they wouldn't be burdened with playing "the Man Utd way", which we so often hear from the Class of '92 players - like there is only one correct way a Man Utd team should play. Anyone who ever says "Man Utd must play with wingers" or "must use some form of 4-4-2" should immediately be ruled out of ever being Man Utd's manager.
That's not that comparable though, is it? Surely teaching has become more standardised with time. Whereas with football, there is no "right" way to do it. Counter-attacking football is just as valid as possession based football, even if the latter might be more modern.
On the flipside, you could also say that one is more likely to hold on to a worldview, or philosophy, that one has grown up with and that worked, rather than dump it for something new that you have hardly had any success with.
I'm not anti Giggs.
I loved Giggs as a player and he was "United" to me....However, if he does get the job...
1. If LvG is sacked, that means Giggs has been involved in two disasters, as a member of the background staff, and he's landed on his feet twice. Why? There is no evidence to suggest he's a good manager. "Oh but he's a legend" .....So is Steve Coppell, Gary Pallister, Brian McClair, Mark Hughes, Eric etc....Why not give them the job if that's the argument?
2. A lot of it stems from the "Giggs for manager" side......I mean, why? Why would you want, an inexperienced person, who would have been part of two very bad managerial reigns, as manager?
Also, the "but where's your evidence that he wouldn't succeed?" crap is hilarious...In recent times, I've stated that the football played in those 4 games was rubbish, (He even played Fellaini as a fecking striker) I gave an example of Sunderland schooling us in a gif (I'd have shown more passages of play if I was arsed going through those other three games.) And that documentary was laughable. "I want them to play with speed and passion and tempo" ....That's exactly what Andy Tate said so, should we hire him? And tempo is a fecking musical term ffs. "Wazza, I want you to play with tempo" ....What's Rooney going to do? Bring his guitar on to the pitch?
I don't wanna see my club in the hands of another manager, who has zero experience at how to succeed at this level. I want the best for my club and Giggs isn't what's best....Am I bad mouthing a legend? Maybe but, didn't Fergie screw legends over for the greater good of the club?
3. He was overwhelmed by the pressure in that documentary. I want a manager who thrives under it. Not shit himself. Hi Moyesey
4. I also don't want the inevitable failing of a player I respect and love so much and I don't wanna see people turning on him
I loved Giggs as a player and he was "United" to me....However, if he does get the job...
1. If LvG is sacked, that means Giggs has been involved in two disasters, as a member of the background staff, and he's landed on his feet twice. Why? There is no evidence to suggest he's a good manager. "Oh but he's a legend" .....So is Steve Coppell, Gary Pallister, Brian McClair, Mark Hughes, Eric etc....Why not give them the job if that's the argument?
2. A lot of it stems from the "Giggs for manager" side......I mean, why? Why would you want, an inexperienced person, who would have been part of two very bad managerial reigns, as manager?
Also, the "but where's your evidence that he wouldn't succeed?" crap is hilarious...In recent times, I've stated that the football played in those 4 games was rubbish, (He even played Fellaini as a fecking striker) I gave an example of Sunderland schooling us in a gif (I'd have shown more passages of play if I was arsed going through those other three games.) And that documentary was laughable. "I want them to play with speed and passion and tempo" ....That's exactly what Andy Tate said so, should we hire him? And tempo is a fecking musical term ffs. "Wazza, I want you to play with tempo" ....What's Rooney going to do? Bring his guitar on to the pitch?
I don't wanna see my club in the hands of another manager, who has zero experience at how to succeed at this level. I want the best for my club and Giggs isn't what's best....Am I bad mouthing a legend? Maybe but, didn't Fergie screw legends over for the greater good of the club?
3. He was overwhelmed by the pressure in that documentary. I want a manager who thrives under it. Not shit himself. Hi Moyesey
4. I also don't want the inevitable failing of a player I respect and love so much and I don't wanna see people turning on him
Has he even been (seriously) linked to any other PL job when it ha come up?
A reason for that....
A reason for that....
Apparently he's turned down a few...
Also, did anyone else see the speed at which he hopped off the bench with at the full time whistle?
I ain't seen him move that fast since 1999
I ain't seen him move that fast since 1999
What others have said already, the managerial role is more important than any one player, the most important man at the club concerning United. It's not a crime to want an experienced manager at the helm, the likes of Mourinho are available, whos a confirmed proven winner everywhere he's gone.
The logical and safe choice is going for experience, there is just more of a mathmatical betting guarantee than appointing someone with nill exerpience, who's major selling point seems to be the sentimentality of him as a past player.
I'm not anti-Giggs, I don't think many are, let him go away and prove his credentials with another club and the same "anti-gigg's" fanbase would quite happily consider him for the next appointment.
We just can't afford at this moment in time to get the next managerial decision wrong.
The logical and safe choice is going for experience, there is just more of a mathmatical betting guarantee than appointing someone with nill exerpience, who's major selling point seems to be the sentimentality of him as a past player.
I'm not anti-Giggs, I don't think many are, let him go away and prove his credentials with another club and the same "anti-gigg's" fanbase would quite happily consider him for the next appointment.
We just can't afford at this moment in time to get the next managerial decision wrong.
This 100 times
I mean, people take it too far, in their quest to be seen as a "supporter" and a "Top Red"
It's not being anti Giggs but, being realistic
EDIT: "T0P R€D" still not coming through
There's just nothing there, is there?
You can also add the 4 matches he managed at the end of '14 to the case against him.
it was his chance to shine, but the football wasn't good.
it was his chance to shine, but the football wasn't good.
A lot of people whose opinion I respect seem to really rate Giggs as our potential manager. I don't put much weight into how he came across on a documentary.
I read that Gary Neville said he doesn't want to manage United and that is more than likely because he expects or wants Giggs to get the job. Basically, I'd be more than willing to give him a fair crack of the whip and would be willing to cut him slack due to him being new to it.
I read that Gary Neville said he doesn't want to manage United and that is more than likely because he expects or wants Giggs to get the job. Basically, I'd be more than willing to give him a fair crack of the whip and would be willing to cut him slack due to him being new to it.
An average 45 mins against a Norwich side that was utter shit.
One of the worst performances I've ever seen from a United team against Sunderland.
Fellaini up top against a Hull side, who weren't arsed and with players missing due to their upcoming cup final appearance.
Lucky not to be smashed 4 or 5-1 against Southampton
"Sure look lads, Guardiola and Mourinho were available but, we hired Giggs. He's new to this lark and he hasn't a notion what he's doing yet and we are mid table and losing games left right and centre but, let's cut him some slack"
Seriously? You of all people. And I love your posts