The anti-Giggs sentiment

I as so many would prefer he would earn a job offer from United at another club.

The realist in me would love to see us go for one of the up and coming young managers who have shown that they can actually inspire a team to play good and within their financial means successful football.

The romantic wants to give Giggs another half season to show what he can really do but as it has been pointed out already after now 2 manager decision that haven't worked out we aren't really in the position to take great gambles anymore.
 
Giggs being forced onto Moyes and LvG was the first mistake we made post-Fergie, it was obvious from the start that we saw him taking over from them, especially with LvG, we had this naive and romanticized plan that LvG would shape this into a title contesting team to hand to him. why? I have no fecking idea outside of some fantasy that he'd be manager for 20 years like we had with Fergie.

We keep hearing all these "Not suitable for United" reasons to hang around Mourinho's neck due to his "antics" when nothing he's done comes remotely close to Giggs despicable behaviour, and he has nothing in the pros coulmn at all where as Mourinho does.

He's made zero attempt to go outside the United bubble and learn, to educate himself in being a manager, he's just lurked around waiting for one of the biggest jobs in world football to be handed to him, I'm anti-Giggs because I don't think he's earned the job and I care about the club, to me giving it to him will see us free fall even worse than we currently are.
 
"Sure look lads, Guardiola and Mourinho were available but, we hired Giggs. He's new to this lark and he hasn't a notion what he's doing yet and we are mid table and losing games left right and centre but, let's cut him some slack"

Seriously? You of all people. And I love your posts

It's baffling, the people I see saying he should get the job are either his old cronies, Fergie (who picked Moyes) and a bunch of ex Liverpool players.
 
Fergie "I wouldn't dare repeat the mistakes the club made when Sir Matt retired"


Course not......

This is what my Dad keeps saying to me, the current headless mess eerily reminds him of the long period of malaise after Busby, with one bad choice after another.
 
This is what my Dad keeps saying to me, the current headless mess eerily reminds him of the long period of malaise after Busby, with one bad choice after another.

More concerned about other things going on atm...

I said here awhile ago how the club still hasn't appointed a new head of the youth academy, after nearly a year. Recent issues of the fanzines are saying it now and are now saying they haven't even decided on what new direction to take with it.

Baffling
 
More concerned about other things going on atm...

I said here awhile ago how the club still hasn't appointed a new head of the youth academy, after nearly a year. Recent issues of the fanzines are saying it now and are now saying they haven't even decided on what new direction to take with it.

Baffling

It really feels like a lot is slipping right across the club, and a lot stems from the fact we don't even have an experienced (but still young enough to be open to change) football man in the head role, I mean Woodward loves a deal but his background is not in the field he's now being asked to operate in.
 
It really feels like a lot is slipping right across the club, and a lot stems from the fact we don't even have an experienced (but still young enough to be open to change) football man in the head role, I mean Woodward loves a deal but his background is not in the field he's now being asked to operate in.

Stoke-City-vs-Manchester-United.jpg


:D
 
Don't judge him based on his appearance in a documentary, one that shows him doing the job that's causing this divided point of view among our support about his merits as our future manager. I mean how does that inform anyone of anything that is relevant to the topic in question?

You can't judge someone based on the goings-on in their private life either. Only through their dreams can you form impressions of a person's character.

What difference does a leader's character make with regards managing a global brand that has shaped sporting history for over a century?

Some corkers in this thread.

What comes next for him doesn't particularly interest me. I don't believe he has the abilities or character necessary to become a top-class manager, and if he has aspirations to become a manager he should leave to further his prospects of becoming one.

I mentioned this in the other Ryan Giggs thread, but if he does leave and become a football manager I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually has a career in management that mirrors Nigel Clough's.
 
Column Against Giggs

1. Giggs has been a common factor in our decline since Moyes.

2. Has not managed a club before, let alone one of the biggest clubs in the world. Zero experience.

3. Unproven in terms of footballing identity and approach due to the reason above. How do we know he can create a system that produces technical, attacking play? We don't. It's just a perception that he can because he was part of Fergie's class of 92.

4. We are at a critical stage where we cannot, cannot cannot afford to screw things up. We are in relegation form at the moment and have been playing the worst football ever in our recent history. We need someone who is a proven winner and who can effect short term improvement to arrest our free falling.

5. Unsure how he would handle the Rooney situation or how he would reshape the team for that matter.

6. Pep and Mourinho are quite possibly available. Both are proven winners.

Column For Giggs

1. We can't say for sure that he will be a terrible manager. Who knows? He might blow everyone away.



Conclusion: Not a difficult choice is it?

This sums it up. Nothing against him personally but I do not want to take risk.
 
We might as well give him the job. Sooner be done with it. We are run by morons anyway.
 
Go tell Kenny Dalglish that......How many titles did he win for Liverpool as their player's manager?.... I guess he was managing Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern before he became a player manager.

How many did Evans and Souness?
 
Why won't Giggs go get a managerial job somewhere else and prove himself?
Why wouldn't he find a women other than his sister-in-law?
 
Go tell Kenny Dalglish that......How many titles did he win for Liverpool as their player's manager?.... I guess he was managing Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern before he became a player manager.
Kenny Daglish wasn't managing against Wenger, Klopp, Pep, and possibly Simone and Mourinho (he has said he wants to manage in England and a few teams may make a big play for him). Nor was it possible for a team like Stoke to buy Shakiri, Bojan, etc.

The EPL is a completely different entity to what it was in the 80s.
 
Go tell Kenny Dalglish that......How many titles did he win for Liverpool as their player's manager?.... I guess he was managing Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern before he became a player manager.

He had the finest team in England by miles handed to him on a plate. Giggs wouldn't, he'd be handed a massive rebuilt task with a flawed squad.

It's an utterly absurd comparison
 
The question we have to ask ourselves is this:

1. Can the 1986 post Aberdeen SAF succeed with this team in the first year?
2. If Giggs is actually another SAF, which SAF was it? The one that retires in 2013, the 1986 AF, or the Pre Aberdeen SAF?
3. SAF didn't reach his prime until after a few years managing United, do we allow Giggs the same leeway considering the expectations these days aren't the same with how it was in 86?
4. Supposedly Giggs is as good as AF (I highly doubt it), can he perform immediately? 3-4 years is a luxury we can't afford these days
 
The question we have to ask ourselves is this:

1. Can the 1986 post Aberdeen SAF succeed with this team in the first year?
2. If Giggs is actually another SAF, which SAF was it? The one that retires in 2013, the 1986 AF, or the Pre Aberdeen SAF?
3. SAF didn't reach his prime until after a few years managing United, do we allow Giggs the same leeway considering the expectations these days aren't the same with how it was in 86?
4. Supposedly Giggs is as good as AF (I highly doubt it), can he perform immediately? 3-4 years is a luxury we can't afford these days

This isnt 1991. This is not a two club league.
 
So is Ed Woodward, Wayne Rooney, Michael Carrick, David De Gea, playing at Old Trafford, wearing red shirts.



Same as Pep then before Barca*, but a valid concern none the less.
*yes I know he did 1 season in charge of the kids in the 4th tier of spanish football.



Is this worse than appointing a manager with a track record of not playing attacking football?
Anyway this is the same point as point 2, just reworded to create a larger list in this column.



Proven winner like LVG? Except he has created this relegation form. Again though, this is the same point as point 2, just reworded to create a larger list in this column. Afterall, Giggs knows a thing or two about winning, so you must mean as a manager.... i.e. point 2.



Point shouldn't be on this list, applies to any manager coming in.



Forget Pep, but ok, the availability of Mourinho counts as a negative against not only Giggs but every other manager other than Jose?


In conclusion, the argument against Giggs boils down to just 1 or 2 points really, and that's the experience one and the possible availability of someone more experienced. As we know with LVG, that can count for absolutely nothing too, but maybe he's an exception.

1. Yes but none of them are up for management are they? Not to mention people have widely acknowledged that Rooney and Carrick are past it.

2. and 3. What? The point was Giggs has not proven himself in any way.

4. Except now we have the benefit of hindsight to see that Pep's tactics are obviously superior to LVG's, and that LVG has absolutely no clue how to play attacking football. Mourinho is a proven winner in England.

5. Actually it is highly relevant that I included this point since Giggs and Rooney were team mates for a long time. Giggs is also unlikely to deal with the Rooney situation as we would prefer.

6. What are you talking about? The point is there are 2 great managers out there who we should be talking to because they are gettable.
 
It's not anti-Giggs per se, it's more pro-United since we support the club, not individuals - no matter how storied they are. He doesn't have the credentials in terms of experience, or a track record of success for the job; and for some romantic reason - we've made a horrendous decision to 'groom' him on the fly - this at one of the top clubs in the world. The manager needs to install his own men without accommodating trainees at the behest of the higher ups (as is usually the case at other clubs - even Rijkaard didn't groom Pep; but the clowns in Madrid are grooming Zidane for sure), and tell you what - if say I'm the next manager, I don't want him anywhere near my staff because I don't want the manager-in-waiting breathing down my neck.

There are a fair few pro-Giggs arguments:

1. He was a legend - Has no bearing on his managerial credentials.
2. He knows the club inside out - Again, no bearing on managerial credentials, he might know more about the club than the average mug - but that doesn't lend itself to a managerial role.
3. He trained under Fergie - So did about a couple dozen current/ former managers - and look where they are.
4. He will learn from Moyes and Van Gaal's mistakes - What if he learns to repeat the same mistakes?
5. Guardiola - Seedorf, Inzaghi, Souness, Shearer, Gullit, etc.
6. He will stay for 20 years - No, he will stay is he's successful. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

Cons:

1. He has never managed a club before (4 inconsequential matches does not a manager make since our season was already over by all acounts - and he was under zero pressure).
2. He does not know how to manage in European competitions (big criteria for a club like United which should ideally have European ambitions).
3. He does not know how to manage the club when we're pushing for titles (and no, experience as a player doesn't count - Keegan had experience as a player, but he crumbled under pressure from Fergie).
4. He has lived in a sheltered environment with no experience outside United - that will hamper his development, the best managers are usually well traveled and it gives them exposure to newer things in newer environments.
5. We don't know how good of a tactician he is - can he outwit the likes of Simeone, Ancelotti, Pep in the big, big matches? Simply hollering - 'Wazza! tuck in' won't do.
6. The club is at a critical juncture - and he would represent a massive risk because there's no adequate sample size - and failure could set us back by a couple of seasons, and cost the club a hundred million if not more in terms of revenue - look what Moyes' tenure did. That money could be better spent elsewhere - like improving the squad...
7. Can he dissociate himself from cliques and loyalty attachments, and become a 'manager' rather than a buddy to some of the players? Seems pretty straightforward, but it's an incredibly hard thing to do for a beginner.
8. How will he react in the face of adversity as a manager? We have nothing to go by.
9. What if he fails? This is actually a pro-Giggs point. No other big club will take a flyer on him, and failing at United might shatter him. What if the divorce isn't by mutual consent, but acrimonious in nature? Wouldn't we be complicit in setting him up for failure by throwing him in the deep end when he's not ready?
etc.

If he becomes the next manager, that's ok too. Maybe he'll be a superlative manager, who knows? But it would be a very risky and unnecessary gamble that could blow up in our faces, and scar a legend of the club (probably for life - very few managers make a comeback after massive failure at a top club after their first job). He needs to do what Gary Neville did. Go out, manage another club, if you're good at your job - apply for the manager's position at United (if it's vacant).

People say he will never prove anything by managing mid-table clubs, but it could not be further from he truth. He could prove loads by getting them to overperform, maybe take them from midtable to Top 6 and qualify for Europe; then manage a slightly bigger club (if not in England, then maybe Spain, the Bundesliga or Serie A) - show genuine title ambitions, maybe win a Cup or two. And then he might be ready by merit. And he'd have done it the hard way so he'll value the experience - instead of being handed the position on a silver platter.

PS: And for the 1000000th time Guardiola was a once in a decade or two type of anomaly - not the rule of thumb. And he traveled to Argentina, Chile, Mexico, Brazil to prepare himself tactically - under Bielsa and the likes. Apart from learning from Sacchi's Milan, from Cruyff when he was a young player, from Van Gaal when he was successful etc etc. And that preparation is evident in the way he trains his teams - he's brilliant, crazy and exhaustive - which is why he can't manage for more than 3-4 years at a stretch and might burn himself out, or lose passion for the game. Pep is very very unique.
I'm not sure Guardiola is as brilliant as you make him out to be. He started out his managerial career with the best team in the history of football already at his disposal. Rijkaard won before him (not being a special manager before his appointment or show anything since) and his successors have all shown how easy it is to win with Barcelona. Every single manager with that core of a team has been inexperienced and won things.

Onto Bayern, he's won the league twice and the cup once which is fairly standard. Can't really ask for less considering his squad and the competition he's facing. LvG did the same with a lesser squad and in a more even league. He barely had to do anything there but to keep on trucking.

If he joins either Manchester club he'll have a good foundation, a lot of youth investments and a whole lot of money to buy whoever he wants but he want take over an already dominant side and that will be his first "real" test imo. Even with free reign of money he has shown himself to be an average buyer of talent at best. He basically added only 2 players to the Barca-side, one of which only established himself because of difficulties with the CB position after failing to performing in his natural position.
 
I'm not sure Guardiola is as brilliant as you make him out to be. He started out his managerial career with the best team in the history of football already at his disposal. Rijkaard won before him (not being a special manager before his appointment or show anything since) and his successors have all shown how easy it is to win with Barcelona. Every single manager with that core of a team has been inexperienced and won things.

Onto Bayern, he's won the league twice and the cup once which is fairly standard. Can't really ask for less considering his squad and the competition he's facing. LvG did the same with a lesser squad and in a more even league. He barely had to do anything there but to keep on trucking.

If he joins either Manchester club he'll have a good foundation, a lot of youth investments and a whole lot of money to buy whoever he wants but he want take over an already dominant side and that will be his first "real" test imo. Even with free reign of money he has shown himself to be an average buyer of talent at best. He basically added only 2 players to the Barca-side, one of which only established himself because of difficulties with the CB position after failing to performing in his natural position.

This is something that annoys me, people have been pointing out that he starts with Barcelona B, something the pro giggs camp just simply discounted at all cost saying how nice and cozy things are for Pep. The situation is not the same, infact it's totally different kettle of fish.

Pep got the job because he has shown a marvelous job at barcelona B, so good and above expectation by far that they are willing to take a punt to give him the job. A punt, at that time nobody in the Barcelona board expect him to do a treble. With Giggs and United most pro giggs thinks that he'll be a surefire and become SAF mk.II simply just by giving him the job

Madrid/barcelona/Bayern are a different kettle of fish than United, they change manager every 2 seasons, they have been 20 years ahead of United in that department, this is our first real managerial carnival post SAF, we need a stable hand first and foremost.
 
Would probably be a good time to bring this up....

Rio Ferdinand has said that Giggs wanted to make him the main centre back, for the 14/15 season, if Giggs had gotten the job. . .
We know how Rio turned out that season....

If someone off the internet could see Rio was finished and Giggs couldn't, it's quite worrying.
 
For Giggs to keep his job (sentiments aside) he would have to be the 2013 SAF, even the 1986 SAF will not survive in 2016

Is he good enough to become the 2013 SAF today (not in 5-10 years time)?

You think City will sell us Aguero? RVP won us that league. 30 goals, man could we use that right about now.
 
Would probably be a good time to bring this up....

Rio Ferdinand has said that Giggs wanted to make him the main centre back, for the 14/15 season, if Giggs had gotten the job. . .
We know how Rio turned out that season....

If someone off the internet could see Rio was finished and Giggs couldn't, it's quite worrying.

It'll be a conflict of interest if the next manager comes in and having him potentially touted to take over.

If he does a good job then the manager will likely getting an extension and Giggs' will be further away from the job. I'm not saying he will do badly on purposes, but having that kind of conflict of interest is something that no big business entity will allow
 
You think City will sell us Aguero? RVP won us that league. 30 goals, man could we use that right about now.

No, what I meant is that it took SAF 26 years to become what he is when he retires. The man we miss isn't the man that's straight out of Aberdeen, it's the man that's been forged 26 years in the premiership. Giggs hasn't gone through that walk.
 
So it's just turned into another "I hate Giggs more than you" thread.

Who'd have thought it?
It hasn't all. It's turned into a "Giggs might not be bad so he's a better option than Mourinho" thread.
 
One question for you.

Do you think Barack Obama, Angela Merkel or David Cameron would survive if they have done similar things as Giggs? Clinton was in for a personal hearing because of a blown job, and he lied. Why do you think..

MU is a public company and many investors, partners and sponsosors take moral view very serious. As a assistant manager your private life is private, as a manager of a club of our size your private life is part of your CV. If you don't understand or see this then I can't help you further. I leave it there. No disrespect.
Well, he doesn't seem to have affected our ability to attract sponsors.

Then again, maybe they're not as pious and sanctimonious as you.