The balance of the team

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
58,572
Location
Canada
Something Van Gaal talked about time and time again at the start of the season, looking for balance, but you can say he's definitely found it. We've been so dominant in all our games this past month. You don't see De Gea saving us very often anymore, in fact we hardly concede any chances. Very solid all around as a team and with real quality going forward. Usually you can always pinpoint an area where you have to improve, but thinking about it, do we have any real weakness anymore? Looking at the side on paper and you just think how it seems very solid and balanced all around, and on the pitch they've obviously been brilliant.

So yeah, what do you all think is still a weakpoint in our current side? Not really in terms of long term improvements that we'll need like Carrick getting old, just like the immediate improvements that we should look for. We seem to have a perfect blend of control, creativity, strength, pace, defensive solidarity and attacking players.
 
Our main weakness is of course in that right back position but other than that if you're talking about improving our selection, the main thing right now is to buy players that would improve on what we currently have. We've got the balance, now we just need more top players in our selection.
 
It's much more balanced than any other team we've had but it's still pretty weak down the right hand side. We're a little over reliant on our left flank providing our creativity which if nullified could cause us some problems.
 
bosnian_red said:
Something Van Gaal talked about time and time again at the start of the season, looking for balance, but you can say he's definitely found it. We've been so dominant in all our games this past month. You don't see De Gea saving us very often anymore, in fact we hardly concede any chances. Very solid all around as a team and with real quality going forward. Usually you can always pinpoint an area where you have to improve, but thinking about it, do we have any real weakness anymore? Looking at the side on paper and you just think how it seems very solid and balanced all around, and on the pitch they've obviously been brilliant.

So yeah, what do you all think is still a weakpoint in our current side? Not really in terms of long term improvements that we'll need like Carrick getting old, just like the immediate improvements that we should look for. We seem to have a perfect blend of control, creativity, strength, pace, defensive solidarity and attacking players.
Click to expand...

Yes we do and they are talked about often I think.
A leader and commanding CB, a specialist RB (Valencia has been solid, but I want more than solid from such an important position) and a CM. This isn't a moan, we've just smashed City so I'm beyond happy. Just being honest.

Also, and I know it may be controversial, but Fellaini should be a plan B for me. I'd rather get another midfielder and play Carrick, Herrera and new CM in the long term. Okay, maybe replace Carrick in the long term.

How I look at it is, is Fellaini capable of being one of the main attacking guys in a Champions League winning team?
 
Bubz27 said:
Yes we do and they are talked about often I think.
A leader and commanding CB, a specialist RB (Valencia has been solid, but I want more than solid from such an important position) and a CM. This isn't a moan, we've just smashed City so I'm beyond happy. Just being honest.

Also, and I know it may be controversial, but Fellaini should be a plan B for me. I'd rather get another midfielder and play Carrick, Herrera and new CM in the long term. Okay, maybe replace Carrick in the long term.

How I look at it is, is Fellaini capable of being one of the main attacking guys in a Champions League winning team?
Click to expand...
Agree kind of with Fellaini, but he's been in excellent form. Don't see him as a key player long term but that has nothing to do with how he's been this season, so I wouldn't exactly call him a weakness. The CB we need because our current ones are crocks, but if they weren't then I don't think we'd really need to strengthen our defence. People forget that Smalling is 25 and Jones just turned 23. Both have plenty of time to grow and both have shown how good they can be given a run in the team. So again, that's only a weakness because they'll probably get injured soon. On top form, they're perfectly fine IMO. As for Valencia, yes people hate him on here but his stats are as good as pretty much any other top right back in the premier league, haven't checked in other leagues. His indecisiveness that he showed a lot more before is what bothers people more then anything about him.

There's no doubt that we need to strengthen in the summer, and we will. But if you were an opposing manager, what would you pinpoint to exploit us? That's what I mean, there's no glaring weakness when everyone is fit.
 
bosnian_red said:
Agree kind of with Fellaini, but he's been in excellent form. Don't see him as a key player long term but that has nothing to do with how he's been this season, so I wouldn't exactly call him a weakness. The CB we need because our current ones are crocks, but if they weren't then I don't think we'd really need to strengthen our defence. People forget that Smalling is 25 and Jones just turned 23. Both have plenty of time to grow and both have shown how good they can be given a run in the team. So again, that's only a weakness because they'll probably get injured soon. On top form, they're perfectly fine IMO. As for Valencia, yes people hate him on here but his stats are as good as pretty much any other top right back in the premier league, haven't checked in other leagues. His indecisiveness that he showed a lot more before is what bothers people more then anything about him.

There's no doubt that we need to strengthen in the summer, and we will. But if you were an opposing manager, what would you pinpoint to exploit us? That's what I mean, there's no glaring weakness when everyone is fit.
Click to expand...
To exploit us I'd press our defenders with pace and intensity and be clinical when given the chances. Arsenal at the Emirates pressed us wonderfully Welbeck, Sanchez and Ox pressed with pace and purpose. They fashioned a few chances and if they were clinical they would have been comfortable. They did exploit one of our weaknesses, they just knocked against our biggest strength (DDG).

Jones is a weakness for me as well, especially in LVGs style of play. He just doesn't look comfortable with the ball at his feet. Constantly turning back (Pass-back Phil my dad called him today) and those pass backs are heart in mouth moments. He nearly scored an own goal at Anfield and sold DDG short today. Press Phil Jones and there are mistakes in him.

As for Valencia, he is solid and his numbers match up. But his defensive awareness is reminiscent of a RW playing at RB at times. Following runners and organising are two thing he rarely does. He isn't to blame there, he is a RW playing at RB after all. I don't hate him, I just don't think he should be our first choice RB or RW. He works hard and takes to his task professionally so I credit him for that.
 
Our defence still needs some massive improvements, we got carved open quite a few times early on and we leave too many spaces. If we don't to be beating the top European teams then we will need some top quality defenders in. However Smalling and Jones are still meshing their partnership up and can easily still improve I think.

Also sometimes we miss place a lot of simply passes especially when we are counter attacking, this should get better after the team gels better.
 
Priorities:
Top quality CB
Good Young non-injury prone RB(Valencia has been doing well and will continue to grow into the position so only needs good competition)

We still need more but these two are priorities.
 
Not sure if it fits this topic, but I just realized that the whole front 6 (Carrick - Herrera - Fellaini - Young - Mata - Rooney) all scored in the past 6 games, on top of a hatful of assists. Long may our great winning streak continue!
 
Last edited:
Our defense is rubbish. Tony isn't a right back, anyone arguing he is needs to watch the first goal again.

We are at least one central defender away from being great. Smalling gets over rated like mad on this forum, Evans is hopeless. Jones is good but too prone to being rash at times, and Rojo is just settling.

Left back is find with Shaw/Blind, even if Daley is a tad slow.
 
Because of our XI we have crosses from the left and inter play from the right, all we're missing is a proper footballing RB who likes to get forward and we'll have as much joy on the right. I don't want Alves but a prime Alves type player would be amazing!
 
We need depth, we have no real replacement for hererra. And if carrick does get injured then you'd want to give blind a bit more support really.

I think we need more strikers and wingers. Just guys you'd play in the front 3.
Rooney's and mata have been great. And Fellaini has too actually but i'd either want more from van persie, wilson and januzaj or cover from elsewhere.

You'd have to question how rough a time Fellaini is going to get in europe from referee's. I really dont want to see him up against someone like busquets tbh.
Hes kind of classic in the league though, seeing him boss toure today after years of games with toure just bulldozing through our midfield was pretty sweet.

Not sure what to make of di maria as a front 3 player. Its his first season and it took the entire team a long time to settle so hasn't been easy for him.
Think hes better playing deeper though perhaps not in a van gaal team (or at least not this van gaal team?). We'll see.
Depay sounds nice and would give us a good option if we want to play with 2 wingers and stretch play, thats who i'd go for.

Dont really see Young as a front 3 player but he makes a good foil for Fellaini so i'd keep him. Been playing great recently, some good free kicks today.
Our defence needs a bit of tweaking really.
 
RB, CB & CM?

I don't rate Jones massively so I'd very much like a great CB next to Smalling.

Cm I just worry we're a Herrera injury away from being average again.
 
I dont want to derail this thread but I basically think that Fellaini is responsible for a lot of the balance that LVG seeks.

In terms of weaknesses, the main one for me is at RB. Not a big Valencia fan as I just find him an incredibly limited player.

I will also get shouted down for this one, but I think that in terms of *balance*, Mata isnt ideal either. He obviously links up well with Herrera and contributes a lot in the final third, but if balance is what we seek above all else (and im not saying that is the correct thing to do) then I would take a player with a bit more workrate and defensive contribution.
 
bosnian_red said:
Something Van Gaal talked about time and time again at the start of the season, looking for balance, but you can say he's definitely found it. We've been so dominant in all our games this past month. You don't see De Gea saving us very often anymore, in fact we hardly concede any chances. Very solid all around as a team and with real quality going forward. Usually you can always pinpoint an area where you have to improve, but thinking about it, do we have any real weakness anymore? Looking at the side on paper and you just think how it seems very solid and balanced all around, and on the pitch they've obviously been brilliant.

So yeah, what do you all think is still a weakpoint in our current side? Not really in terms of long term improvements that we'll need like Carrick getting old, just like the immediate improvements that we should look for. We seem to have a perfect blend of control, creativity, strength, pace, defensive solidarity and attacking players.
Click to expand...

The weak point has always been getting the players to play as a team, as opposed to disparate individuals - its what makes players like Smalling, Jones, Valencia, Fellaini, and Young work so well together when just last year they would've been on the chopping block among fans who wanted them out in exchange for the latest muppet signings.
 
Bwuk said:
Our defense is rubbish. Tony isn't a right back, anyone arguing he is needs to watch the first goal again.

We are at least one central defender away from being great. Smalling gets over rated like mad on this forum, Evans is hopeless. Jones is good but too prone to being rash at times, and Rojo is just settling.

Left back is find with Shaw/Blind, even if Daley is a tad slow.
Click to expand...

We have the 3rd best defense in the league, so its clearly not rubbish. Its really hard to believe any of the players we're linked with could do a better than our CBs and makeshift FBs have done in recent weeks.
 
We're a well-oiled unit, but I wouldn't say we're particularly well balanced. There's very little coming down our right at the moment. A marauding right back should be our priority in the summer. Someone who can attack on his own without needing an overlapping runner.
 
Raoul said:
We have the 3rd best defense in the league, so its clearly not rubbish. Its really hard to believe any of the players we're linked with could do a better than our CBs and makeshift FBs have done in recent weeks.
Click to expand...

If it wasnt for De Gea that wouldn't be the case. For the second year in a row our goalkeeper has been our best player..
 
bosnian_red said:
Something Van Gaal talked about time and time again at the start of the season, looking for balance, but you can say he's definitely found it. We've been so dominant in all our games this past month. You don't see De Gea saving us very often anymore, in fact we hardly concede any chances. Very solid all around as a team and with real quality going forward. Usually you can always pinpoint an area where you have to improve, but thinking about it, do we have any real weakness anymore? Looking at the side on paper and you just think how it seems very solid and balanced all around, and on the pitch they've obviously been brilliant.

So yeah, what do you all think is still a weakpoint in our current side? Not really in terms of long term improvements that we'll need like Carrick getting old, just like the immediate improvements that we should look for. We seem to have a perfect blend of control, creativity, strength, pace, defensive solidarity and attacking players.
Click to expand...
Having a £60m player on the pine.
 
I don't think it's necessarily desirable or possible to have direct attackers down both wings. Young/Blind/Fellaini and Mata/Valencia/Herrera have very different jobs, and part of having balance is in having parts of the team complement rather than mirror each other.

I think we need a CB and a midfielder who can step in for Carrick. That role is vital and we have no one who can fulfil it at the moment.
 
I agree our defence isn't right yet. Smalling has improved a lot with increased game time but I just don't think Jones is developing the same - he's a brute but looks incredibly uncomfortable on the ball and his decision making isn't sharp enough when we're playing the high pressure game.

The midfield is also performing well but, as has been said, we've been luckier with injuries recently and I don't think we have the depth in the squad to compete in Europe also. Coupled that with Carrick being a revelation but not getting any younger and it's so, so important we identify his true replacement before it's too late.

Great to see the side looking balanced though and, in fairness to LVG, there's more than one player who many of us wouldn't have put in our "best XI". That's why we needed to ensure the tinkering which can feel so infuriating.
 
Our main problem is we dont have a star who can create something from nothing. The team plays excellently as a unit but when youre really up against it the great teams all have that one player who can conjure up a moment of magic. Ours are sat on the bench because they cant fit into the overall team.
 
I hate to say it because I really like them - Jones especially - but our centre halves are not good enough. Be interesting to see if any of our outstanding u18s defenders get chances any time soon.
 
Raoul said:
The weak point has always been getting the players to play as a team, as opposed to disparate individuals - its what makes players like Smalling, Jones, Valencia, Fellaini, and Young work so well together when just last year they would've been on the chopping block among fans who wanted them out in exchange for the latest muppet signings.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Fergie got an absolute hammering on here for the state that he left the team but we are now seeing the majority of that team playing as a top class unit. Player's that were deemed useless or past it (Young, Valencia, Jones, Smalling, Carrick) are the spine of a team
showing title winning form this past 6 months. It's amazing what a top class manager, who can instill confidence and a system that works can have on a team.

I'd still like to see a central defender and possibly a wide forward player to add depth to the squad. Also possibly a right back, although Valencia has been solid. However I definitely don't want to see 4-5 signings all of which will have to be played to justify the outlay upsetting the balance we've found.

Think about how long it look us to give up on Falcao and stick with a system that worked, rather than one that fit in all the big name players. That could happen all over again if we buy 4-5 player's.
 
Kill 'em all said:
Our main weakness is of course in that right back position but other than that if you're talking about improving our selection, the main thing right now is to buy players that would improve on what we currently have. We've got the balance, now we just need more top players in our selection.
Click to expand...
I agree, but there's a bit of a problem. This team as a whole is playing a game that's slightly above their technical ability. To get a team that really fits the aspired playing style, there are about 5 or 6 players that could be considered weak links and should be changed.
 
The stand outs for me at the moment are Jones and Valencia. Perhaps a little unfair to Valencia as he has done well this season but he is too predictable when attacking so he needs to work on that, Jones nearly gives me a heart attack every time he plays. And I am just assuming Evans and RVP are gone in the sumer.

So I'd look at a centre back and right back, or one that can cover both, and we'll need to sign a striker.
 
Individually they're both very capable, but Smalling-Jones is an awful partnership. At least currently they are.
 
My biggest worry about the balance/team at the moment is that, it's a formation/style/system that is seemingly perfectly suited to the XI players on the pitch. If you take out any of that front 6 (and maybe even Blind, possibly Valencia too) - then I'm unsure if anyone on the bench can make it work quite as well... as it all seems to be about how well the players down the right, and the players down the left, work together. Plus, we don't have anyone like Fellaini - and he's been a huge part of the team, none of our strikers do as much off the ball as Rooney, and there's barely another Michael Carrick in the league, let alone our squad...
 
Certainly Valencia. Sorry to say it, but I don't care if he "does a job" (as he really didn't anyway on their first goal) but at United we should have players that can do more than a job in their position. If he wants to stay and be a backup RB and a RW if we change formation then great, but we really should be looking to replace him ASAP.

We still need some more midfielders. If Herrera gets injured we're fecked, we need a similar player to him I think. And, it's pretty much a given, but we need to be looking at a replacement for Carrick.
 
11101 said:
Our main problem is we dont have a star who can create something from nothing. The team plays excellently as a unit but when youre really up against it the great teams all have that one player who can conjure up a moment of magic. Ours are sat on the bench because they cant fit into the overall team.
Click to expand...
LVG doesn't really like that though, he has always said the team > individuals. Di Maria is probably our most creative player, but then also most likely to lose the ball etc.

Right now we've been scoring plenty and not conceding too many, so it seems it works fine at present.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
My biggest worry about the balance/team at the moment is that, it's a formation/style/system that is seemingly perfectly suited to the XI players on the pitch. If you take out any of that front 6 (and maybe even Blind, possibly Valencia too) - then I'm unsure if anyone on the bench can make it work quite as well... as it all seems to be about how well the players down the right, and the players down the left, work together. Plus, we don't have anyone like Fellaini - and he's been a huge part of the team, none of our strikers do as much off the ball as Rooney, and there's barely another Michael Carrick in the league, let alone our squad...
Click to expand...

The way I look at it, we now finally have a clear system of play for the first time since Fergie left, which makes it easier to decide who to bring in and who to let go in the summer. We can judge who to keep, sell and buy on their ability to fit into the system, rather than just buying talent and then figuring out if there's a formation that will work with them in it.
 
We're on a great run of results but it shouldn't detract that we need an injection of quality in RB, CB, CM and a wide midfield/wide forward.
 
bishblaize said:
The way I look at it, we now finally have a clear system of play for the first time since Fergie left, which makes it easier to decide who to bring in and who to let go in the summer. We can judge who to keep, sell and buy on their ability to fit into the system, rather than just buying talent and then figuring out if there's a formation that will work with them in it.
Click to expand...

Aye, will be interesting to see what we acquire based off this... but I was meaning more about the remainder of this season. In a perfect world these XI players stay fit, but I can't see that happening with our injury record.

If, for example, Di Maria did come in for Young, our left-side would be completely different - it would cease to be a unit of three and become a unit of one, which would be fine if ADM was in world-beater mode, but that's not exactly been the default this season.
 
I think, other than right back, where we definitely need another player, we've reached a stage where there aren't any real weak spots in the team that need immediate fixing (which hasn't been the case for years and years) and it's all about buying better players than the ones we already have, which is great.
 
Adam-Utd said:
LVG doesn't really like that though, he has always said the team > individuals. Di Maria is probably our most creative player, but then also most likely to lose the ball etc.

Right now we've been scoring plenty and not conceding too many, so it seems it works fine at present.
Click to expand...

He has in the past had star individuals who fit the team. Right now he mostly has good players who fit the team, and stars who dont. He will either train the existing stars to fit the team, find new stars in youth, or buy in.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
What makes you think that? I think they've looked pretty solid together these past few weeks.
Click to expand...
I still feel the partnership is not quite there. Often getting dragged to one end of the pitch/one opponent together, not getting their general coordination right and so on.

Like i said, I feel its just a compatibility issue, and nothing they can't sort out in the long run. And I'm not faulting them individually as I think Smalling is excellent and Jones is progressing steadily again.
 
As others have suggested a top quality CB and RB is what we need as a priority. As for the rest of the squad I would be against many more additions to the starting 11 at this stage. It's taken a while but this team has started to gel brilliantly in the last few weeks and major upheaval will only disrupt that. The lads seem to have great team spirit right now too and this group seem pretty close and tight nit which is great to see, they're all fighting for each other and I for one would take a 100% committed and passionate Ashley young or Fellaini over a 'bigger' name that hasn't had to fight for his place.

With the addition of CL football then we certainly need more depth in certain positions though, notably CM (injury replacements/rotation for Carrick and/or Herrera) as well as all across the front 3 too. I don't think we need any 'superstars' for these positions, more like young up and coming talent promoted from within or scouted from abroad.
 
Our right side is a little weak. Valencia offers very little offensively so I expect us to look for a replacement for him (Rafael is surely gone). Mata is not going to make runs on the right side, so a rightback with a good crossing is absolutely crucial. At the same time Valencia has to stay with us, he will make a great back-up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.