The Casemiro/Mount/Bruno midfield

[joedirt87]

............................................................Onana..................................................................

AWB.................................Varane.............................Martinez................................Shaw..

..........................................................Casemiro...............................................................
...............................Bruno....................................................Eriksen................................

...........Mount.....................................Højlund..........................................Rashford.......

That is how I would go as soon as Højlund is ready to go.

Casemiro-Bruno-Eriksen is still our best option despite all three having obvious weaknesses.
The midfield cannot compensate for the lack of good runs from the front three, who has been pretty abysmal. We have seemed somewhat more in control, when Eriksen has come in for Mount, who will need time to be comfortable in his new role. I would play him on the wing though. i trust in Mount, Rashy and Højlund to put the pressure on the opponent. Sancho seems to be in good form and Martial wille be needed as well. Garnacho seems off it at the moment.

Mount on the right is the true realization we've just repeated the Mata deal. Hell I would even throw Bruno on the left until Hojlund comes back and play

Casemiro
McTominay Eriksen
Mount Bruno
Rashford
​

Mount and Bruno can play as the wide attacking midfielders or move them in and have the fullbacks overlap more. I would have zero issues seeing Garnacho and Antony used as subs right now.

​

 

[Sky1981]

I'd gladly sell Bruno (if anyone actually fancy him), Mount, and just get some midtable midfielder who can pass between them, even if they don't or incapable of pulling extraordinary skills every once in a while.

The percentages of having a functional midfielder trumps having Bruno. Our possession lost is atrociously bad for a supposedly big team

Bruno is a celebrated purple patch player, you really can't build a team on a player who can't keep possession

 

[windycityfan]

............................................................Onana..................................................................

AWB.................................Varane.............................Martinez................................Shaw..

..........................................................Casemiro...............................................................
...............................Bruno....................................................Eriksen................................

...........Mount.....................................Højlund..........................................Rashford.......

That is how I would go as soon as Højlund is ready to go.

Casemiro-Bruno-Eriksen is still our best option despite all three having obvious weaknesses.
The midfield cannot compensate for the lack of good runs from the front three, who has been pretty abysmal. We have seemed somewhat more in control, when Eriksen has come in for Mount, who will need time to be comfortable in his new role. I would play him on the wing though. i trust in Mount, Rashy and Højlund to put the pressure on the opponent. Sancho seems to be in good form and Martial wille be needed as well. Garnacho seems off it at the moment.

Fixed. Eriksen needs to play deeper, Bruno higher. And Martial or Sancho in until Hojlund shows he can be the featured striker.

............................................................Onana................................................................…

AWB.................................Varane.............................Martinez................................Shaw

...........................Casemiro....................................................Eriksen...............................

...........Mount.......................................Bruno….........................................Rashford.........

.........…………….......................….............Martial..................…....................…………………........

 

[windycityfan]

I'd gladly sell Bruno (if anyone actually fancy him), Mount, and just get some midtable midfielder who can pass between them, even if they don't or incapable of pulling extraordinary skills every once in a while.

The percentages of having a functional midfielder trumps having Bruno. Our possession lost is atrociously bad for a supposedly big team

Bruno is a celebrated purple patch player, you really can't build a team on a player who can't keep possession

Madness. Two wrongs don’t make one right. Bruno’s passing is the key that unlocks our chance creation. He shouldn’t be playing the possession game. He should be feeding our goal threats, including himself. The possession responsibilities should lie behind him.

 

[1988]

Mount haven't had the impact we hoped for yet. I can see why he can work so I haven't given up yet. I am way more critical of Bruno's and Casemiro's performances so far.

 

[philippexyz]

We needed two new midfielders this summer.

Backup/understudy to Casemiro(Caicedo, Lavia, Ugarte...) and a progressive, press resistant ball carrier(Kouadio Kone, Khephren Thuram, Ryan Gravenberch, Matheus Nunes...) - Frenkie de Jong archetype. Introduction of seemingly excellent prospect in Kobbie Mainoo would also help. Instead we got the underwhelming Mason Mount.

McTominay, Van de Beek and Fred should've been sold - only Fred was sold. Bruno(and maybe Eriksen as well because of age) should be shifted or benched next summer with replacements found. I'm not a fan of Bruno's wild, erratic, chaotic football with no ball retention abilities.

And, here we are, unfortunately, in this Casemiro-Mount-Bruno Bermuda triangle of a mess. Midfield that cannot progress the ball effectively, has no ball retention and is defensively light/suspect.

Absolutely wonderful...

 

[windycityfan]

We needed two new midfielders this summer.

Backup/understudy to Casemiro(Caicedo, Lavia, Ugarte...) and a progressive, press resistant ball carrier(Kouadio Kone, Khephren Thuram, Ryan Gravenberch, Matheus Nunes...) - Frenkie de Jong archetype. Introduction of seemingly excellent prospect in Kobbie Mainoo would also help. Instead we got the underwhelming Mason Mount.

McTominay, Van de Beek and Fred should've been sold - only Fred was sold. Bruno(and maybe Eriksen as well because of age) should've been shifted or benched next summer with replacements found. I'm not a fan of Bruno's wild, erratic, chaotic football with no ball retention abilities.

And, here we are, unfortunately, in this Casemiro-Mount-Bruno Bermuda triangle of a mess. Midfield that cannot progress the ball effectively, has no ball retention and is defensively light/suspect.

Absolutely wonderful...

Frenkie de Jong archetype indeed. That’s who I thought would’ve been ETH’s main priority from the day he was hired. I have no idea why he deviated from that approach. It has been, is and will be the issue until he finds that type of player.

 

[AndyMUFC86]

Personally I prefer to give 10/15 games to a new setup that makes sense on paper. The idea of pairing an agening Casemiro with Bruno and Mount does not make much sense. To me it is crazy. But here we are so let us hope and pray that it works. We also have the issues of an unproven no 9 and a poor right hand side. ETH must have some balls.

100% agree

 

[Zico1982]

@windycityfan :
Højlund will play as soon as he is fit enough. It is simple. He provides the runs and the pressure that our midfield is so sorely missing. That will make the players on the wings more efficient. Same goes for the midfield. Rashford can run deep on the left and Mount was able to do so at Chelsea as well. Højlund is the missing piece at the moment. No deep forward runs means that the midfielders cannot play the transitions fast enough. We´ve seen the result. Bruno, Mount and Casemiro are losing posession way to often. Thus, we need to play Eriksen. Despite been really lacking defensively, he is still our best transition playmaker. He will thrive with proper targetplayers up front. Jaden Sancho is actually in good form, but he is no forward. Martial is probably a better finisher than Højlund at this point, but he lacks in every other department of our game. I prefer Casemiro at 6 and Bruno/Eriksen as double8. In the ETHs Ajax-system, Lisandro will help Case out in transition while one of the backs will go more central to cover for him. LvG developed those tactics, and ETH used them in Holland.

 

[Zico1982]

...and yes. FdJ would have been perfect for us. Amrabat? He is no deep playmaker. He is more like competition for Casemiro, which is also needed. We need someone playing like Bissouma did yesterday though. For the money, that is left that would be someone in the mould of Leon Goretzka or Pierre-Emile Højbjerg. They are no Bellinghams, but provides a lot of the same sort of play thart FdJ does. Energy, leadership, good passing and lots of power. You cannot write of Mount after two games though. He is an intelligent player. He is just not the solution that we need right now. Mount is played out of position and he needs time that we does not really have.

 

[fezzerUTD]

... He made him his captain.

Who else plays every game or is available? I say it because he keeps moving him to the wing when hes supposed to be our best creative midfielder. He did it last year with Weghorst at 10 as well. Im not plucking this bs from thin air am I. I’m giving an opinion on what I see, come up with a logical reason you would do that unless he doesn’t trust him/rates him as highly as most fans (not me) do.

 

[Giggsy13]

Case must be fumming after last match

Doesn't help that he seems a player who starts his season a bit slow and would require a while to be in top form.

But this will eventually work imo. Once Case got his form back and Mount/Bruno get used to the new system. To me it seems like the idea is one would stay back a bit while the other ventures forward but they haven't worked out that yet.

Agreed. The advantage of Mount over Eriksen is his ability to press and win back possession. I would give it 10 to 15 games before passing judgment and making any changes, but some seem to have already concluded it won’t work after to 10 to 15 minutes

 

[Nani Nana]

I'm afraid only one of Mount or Bruno should start in central attacking midfield. In my opinion Mount would suit Antony (and perhaps Garnacho) better as he is a more conservative player.

Forget Mount in central or defensive midfield, he is not a 6 or 8.

 

[philippexyz]

I really don't understand why ETH didn't bring a press resistant ball carrier to partner Casemiro in midfield. Frenkie de Jong "replacement". He had similar type of a player in his second Ajax team(Ryan Gravenberch). That's what really puzzles me.

What made him deviate from that approach? Even Tifo made a video during last season that if you want to build a team around Bruno Fernandes, you need players around him that can really keep possession, because Bruno can't and that weakness of his must be somewhat nullified by the rest of the team, and for that reason they mentioned that Frenkie de Jong was essential, or someone similar to him.

How Ten Hag doesn't see this obvious problem and doesn't try to rectify it, when it looked like he wanted to when he first arrived at the club - i have no clue. I don't understand what changed and why he seemingly "abandoned" his philosophy.

 

[Zico1982]

The Ajax-midfield was VdB-FdJ-Lasse Schøne with VdB as Bruno, FdJ as Casemiro and Schøne as Eriksen/Mount. It worked extremely well because of the frontplayers being technical players AND runners, making fast attacking possible. With the right front three, it could work here as well.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I'm afraid only one of Mount or Bruno should start in central attacking midfield. In my opinion Mount would suit Antony (and perhaps Garnacho) better as he is a more conservative player.

Forget Mount in central or defensive midfield, he is not a 6 or 8.

I think regardless of who is a better 10 long term I hope we just start to see players dropped for poor performances.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

So my question reading everyone : Is it a matter of Mount and Bruno playing too high, the team being too stretched, and them needing to alternate pushing up ? Or another player coming in to slot in support of Casemiro ? Another thing (wingers not backtracking enough) ?

Is it just lack of automatism / familiarity with the set up ?

Yes. Them playing too high stretches us too far. Casemiro needs support somehow, it should start with the CF pressing, but Rashford hasn’t been effective. If they both go up we have a massive hole behind them.

I think it’s like trying to play chess after having to spot your opponent a couple pieces. Without a functional CF, the press doesn’t work. Without an effective press, we concede midfield. Without a mobile DM we have no shield for the back 4. We did fix the goalkeeper issue, and we might have fixed the CF issue. Mount is a solution for a problem we don’t have: he should be playing instead of Bruno, not next to him. We can function with Casemiro and Mount if/when the CF bullies their back line. Until then, it’s not working.

 

[Cabin Clown]

We shouldn't have sold Fred as it stands. At least he got in the opponent's face. Mount and Bruno move about too much and Casemiro is not an anchor for the defence. Sign a proper DM please.

 

[DevTheRed]

Onana
Lindelof Varane Martinez
Dalot Bruno Casemiro Mount Shaw
Hojlund Rasford​

If you want the both of them playing in central positions it has to be with a back 3, or you have to get a DM with more legs than Case but we don’t have that.. the signing of Mount just seems to ask more questions than it’s answered unfortunately.

 

[Redstain]

Personally I prefer to give 10/15 games to a new setup that makes sense on paper. The idea of pairing an agening Casemiro with Bruno and Mount does not make much sense. To me it is crazy. But here we are so let us hope and pray that it works. We also have the issues of an unproven no 9 and a poor right hand side. ETH must have some balls.

This is true, I certainly don't have confidence in the set up. You don't have to be a expert tactician to see the rationale in how a team is balanced it's the profile of players in the shape that is somewhat more important than the quality.

The only way you can balance the midfield is playing a diamond but that would require another purchase in the market for a more natural 8. For ETH to have had varied success last season with the double pivot and then to start the new season with a new system its russian roulette. Maybe with two seasons of the same system which means four windows it's a safer bet to change it but the midfield is really and truly stuck and there's no wiggle room financially to amend it.

Until I see a fixture in the upcoming games where the performance clearly demonstrates structure in the middle this team will finish outside the top 5.

 

[AneRu]

When you make a mistake as a manager, particularly if it is an expensive one, how long to you persist with that mistake before admitting you got it wrong? I guess we're about to find out.

It depends on whether you survive long enough to find out but the smarter ones find out pretty soon and try to mitigate the damage. Under the Glazers though you might find yourself without funds to replace the mistake, I don't think Mourinho and Ole wanted Matic to stay as long as he did here.

 

[Cassidy]

Everyone is forgetting. ETH wanted to sign Rabiot twice…

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

The midfield trio of the thread title is simply not mobile enough, not quick enough, not athletic enough and not physical enough to compete against any half decent PL midfield. FFS they made Wolves midfield look like prime Barcelona and then they get spanked by Brighton a week later!

Just an awful balance.

 

[Plastic Evra]

Yes. Them playing too high stretches us too far. Casemiro needs support somehow, it should start with the CF pressing, but Rashford hasn’t been effective. If they both go up we have a massive hole behind them.

I think it’s like trying to play chess after having to spot your opponent a couple pieces. Without a functional CF, the press doesn’t work. Without an effective press, we concede midfield. Without a mobile DM we have no shield for the back 4. We did fix the goalkeeper issue, and we might have fixed the CF issue. Mount is a solution for a problem we don’t have: he should be playing instead of Bruno, not next to him. We can function with Casemiro and Mount if/when the CF bullies their back line. Until then, it’s not working.

Aye, cheers.
I'm no "the manager is always right" but I would think ten Hag would probably be aware of the potential imbalance most everyone is commenting at length, that's like... his job. I would tend to agree with your answer : Not all the pieces are here yet for the shape to work properly and that also hinders the player learning it. This circles back to the problem of squad depth : It's maybe overly ambitious to rely on a system like that and doubly so with having no backup for some essential pieces (said pieces being for some unproven).

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Aye, cheers.
I'm no "the manager is always right" but I would think ten Hag would probably be aware of the potential imbalance most everyone is commenting at length, that's like... his job. I would tend to agree with your answer : Not all the pieces are here yet for the shape to work properly and that also hinders the player learning it. This circles back to the problem of squad depth : It's maybe overly ambitious to rely on a system like that and doubly so with having no backup for some essential pieces (said pieces being for some unproven).

Yep. My guess would be Ten Hag is having them play a certain way with the understanding that when Hojland / Mainoo / Amrabat is available, it will click, instead of playing a different way until then. I hope. Cuz it makes zero sense to keep using Rashford as a CF.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Everyone is forgetting. ETH wanted to sign Rabiot twice…

That’s not looking like such a crazy idea now.

 

[joedirt87]

That’s not looking like such a crazy idea now.

No doubt Rabiot and Arnautovic would have been solid signings with what this team current has available.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

this trio need to be more compact off the ball. Its that simple. Both in build up and out of possession

 

[RC89]

Who else plays every game or is available? I say it because he keeps moving him to the wing when hes supposed to be our best creative midfielder. He did it last year with Weghorst at 10 as well. Im not plucking this bs from thin air am I. I’m giving an opinion on what I see, come up with a logical reason you would do that unless he doesn’t trust him/rates him as highly as most fans (not me) do.

Come up with a logical reason why he would make him captain. You've not really provided any, could have easily picked Rashford, the darling of Manchester, or Varane even for the experience.

 

[KikiDaKats]

Thats a mouthwatering midfield. Mouthwatering for opposition midfields.

Last season we saw how exposed defensively Casemiro got and it led to most of his booking because he was having to reach into a lot of tackles to make up for the spaces he was trying to cover. I know Bruno runs around a lot but to be honest it’s usually effective when he covering and that requires no positional awareness, just good eyesight and energy. Mount also has the energy but lack the positional awareness so far but it can be developed with lesser attacking responsibilities.
So won’t say it can’t work because we are yet to know what ETH truly wants Mount to be in that midfield. All I know is here at United he has a fetish of some sort for these type midfielders(Sabitzer, trying to convert Fred). He expects his b2b guy to set up shop in the 18 and also possess the ungodly ability to make defensive recovery in our half at the same time, when our attack fails. This is some voodoo shit, Ngolo Kante is the only player that fits this profile and it broke him.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Thats a mouthwatering midfield. Mouthwatering for opposition midfields.

Last season we saw how exposed defensively Casemiro got and it led to most of his booking because he was having to reach into a lot of tackles to make up for the spaces he was trying to cover. I know Bruno runs around a lot but to be honest it’s usually effective when he covering and that requires no positional awareness, just good eyesight and energy. Mount also has the energy but lack the positional awareness so far but it can be developed with lesser attacking responsibilities.
So won’t say it can’t work because we are yet to know what ETH truly wants Mount to be in that midfield. All I know is here at United he has a fetish of some sort for these type midfielders(Sabitzer, trying to convert Fred). He expects his b2b guy to set up shop in the 18 and also possess the ungodly ability to make defensive recovery in our half at the same time, when our attack fails. This is some voodoo shit, Ngolo Kante is the only player that fits this profile and it broke him.

We have an obsession with attacking midfielders and all action to box type and utter contempt for proper passers / playmakers. Anyhoo hopefully we bring one more in and Mount adapts to a new role.

 

[Shakesy]

Whatever the plan is, I just hope it clicks soon. With a little confidence this midfield might work.

 

[KikiDaKats]

No doubt Rabiot and Arnautovic would have been solid signings with what this team current has available.

Agree but one is a suspected money grabber and the other is either a racist or something I care less about.

They’re just not welcome here.

Don’t worry in our next rebuild we will get some likeable sorts.

 

[KikiDaKats]

We have an obsession with attacking midfielders and all action to box type and utter contempt for proper passers / playmakers. Anyhoo hopefully we bring one more in and Mount adapts to a new role.

Hopefully common sense will prevail.

 

[Strelok]

Agreed. The advantage of Mount over Eriksen is his ability to press and win back possession. I would give it 10 to 15 games before passing judgment and making any changes, but some seem to have already concluded it won’t work after to 10 to 15 minutes

Yeah we lost but imo we saw a bit of how that would work in the first half. Sadly we run out of gas in the second half. We looked like we're just out of some heavy fitness sessions against Wolves. Then we looked quite fit in the first half against Spurs so imo it's ok to hope our players could get fully fit in the next match or the match after.

Imo it would be much better once we get more used to the system, our players get fully fit and Hojlund could provide the pressing and holding job upfront.

 

[Sky1981]

Yeah we lost but imo we saw a bit of how that would work in the first half. Sadly we run out of gas in the second half. We looked like we're just out of some heavy fitness sessions against Wolves. Then we looked quite fit in the first half against Spurs so imo it's ok to hope our players could get fully fit in the next match or the match after.

Imo it would be much better once we get more used to the system, our players get fully fit and Hojlund could provide the pressing and holding job upfront.

If the first match of the season we run out of gas that doesnt bode well.

First match supposed to be our fittest time, sharpness aside.

 

[Borys]

Madness. Two wrongs don’t make one right. Bruno’s passing is the key that unlocks our chance creation. He shouldn’t be playing the possession game. He should be feeding our goal threats, including himself. The possession responsibilities should lie behind him.

It is madness. I can't wrap my head around the idea that there is a scenario in which Bruno should be playing deeper. This makes ZERO sense to me.

Thats a mouthwatering midfield. Mouthwatering for opposition midfields.

Last season we saw how exposed defensively Casemiro got and it led to most of his booking because he was having to reach into a lot of tackles to make up for the spaces he was trying to cover. I know Bruno runs around a lot but to be honest it’s usually effective when he covering and that requires no positional awareness, just good eyesight and energy. Mount also has the energy but lack the positional awareness so far but it can be developed with lesser attacking responsibilities.
So won’t say it can’t work because we are yet to know what ETH truly wants Mount to be in that midfield. All I know is here at United he has a fetish of some sort for these type midfielders(Sabitzer, trying to convert Fred). He expects his b2b guy to set up shop in the 18 and also possess the ungodly ability to make defensive recovery in our half at the same time, when our attack fails. This is some voodoo shit, Ngolo Kante is the only player that fits this profile and it broke him.

Bingo. For me it's really hard to judge Mount because I don't know if what he's doing is actually what ETH wants him to do. Normally I would say "no way this is what the manager wants", BUT Erik did the same with Sabitzer, van de Beek and even Fred (although Fred actually had some natural instincts to play a bit deeper, and this was by far the best midfield change ETH did).

I agree with your post 100%. I also think we can squeeze much more from this midfield, I can see Mount doing Fred job quite nicely, we just need to push him deeper and for gods sake, push Bruno to attacking, free-roaming position. Right now we are not using Mount the "optimal" way, and effectively we play man down in midfield.

 

[Fortitude]

Mount has been a passenger so far, dropping him in there has only increased the pressure and workload on Casemiro and Bruno. Bruno made six tackles in the Wolves game, Mount hasn't made a single one in both games.

Watched Mount yesterday and saw a guy trying to look busy but always finding himself away from the action.

Is this true?

 

[Fortitude]

The midfield trio of the thread title is simply not mobile enough, not quick enough, not athletic enough and not physical enough to compete against any half decent PL midfield. FFS they made Wolves midfield look like prime Barcelona and then they get spanked by Brighton a week later!

Just an awful balance.

Said before the season started there’s not a single combination of these players in the squad that make a good midfield on paper, to my dismay they look even worse than imagined in theory out on the pitch. Imagine that.

If we close out the transfer window with this set of midfielders, we are in big trouble. It is not a midfield you can expect to qualify for the CL.

 

[Red in STL]

Is this true?

No it is not true