The chase for 4th place (not top 4)

Ralph has a huge challenge on his hands for 4th place picking up the pieces of the previous managements tenure against the two north London clubs. He has little to no wriggle room from the start.

I would say they are both better than last season at this time but arsenal are what I’d describe as flat track bullies and over the remainder of the season, Conte would worry me more at spurs.The irony if Conte nicks 4th spot off us.
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
Ralph has a huge challenge on his hands for 4th place picking up the pieces of the previous managements tenure against the two north London clubs. He has little to no wriggle room from the start.

I would say they are both better than last season at this time but arsenal are what I’d describe as flat track bullies and over the remainder of the season, Conte would worry me more at spurs.The irony if Conte nicks 4th spot off us.
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Who’d have thought at the start of the season, with all that optimism and Ronnie joining, we’d be odds-against battling Arteta for fourth :lol:
 
we are odds-on, not odds-against (source oddschecker.com).
 
Given how few times we've actually won 3 games in a row in 2021 it feels a stretch we'll win our 3 games in hand. It will be a battle but even if we don't make it the overhaul we're going through needs to happen to undo the stagnation we've been in.
 
KingCavani said:
West Ham were never going to maintain that form and will drop off to around 7th/8th by season’s end. They had players playing well above their regular level and it’s not sustainable.

The influence of the new management at United and Spurs will be huge, as well as what they do in January.
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The Conte led Spurs will be our biggest rival for 4th spot.
Think we need to let some of the Youngsters start some games. Elanga is a flyer and I'm sure Mengi could play as a holding midfielder.
 
Spurs are doing well....but do they ever play away anymore?!

I do think while Conte is obviously a brilliant pick for them and already improved them it has been a kind run of league games for him to start with (obviously smart of Levy to look ahead and see that when sacking Nuno).

5 of his first 6 league games have been at home v Leeds, Norwich, Brentford, Liverpool and Palace so I'd like to see if they can go to likes of Burnley and Leicester and dig out wins. Southampton away if it goes ahead will be interesting given they've just turned over West Ham.

Spurs in second half of season will have to go to both Manchester clubs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Leicester who will surely have improved a bit so very tricky schedule if they have to keep on winning.

West Ham won't be in contention at all, will likely struggle to finish top 6 and probably europa is better chance for them to get CL.

Think it will come down to Man. United and Arsenal for 4th. You'd favour Man. United due to squad size but Arsenal have a light schedule with no europe and unlike Spurs they've already got all their difficult aways done bar Chelsea so easier fixture list and they've been very solid v bottom half teams home and away so far.

I'll be bold and say Arsenal will get 4th.
 
FootballHQ said:
Spurs are doing well....but do they ever play away anymore?!

I do think while Conte is obviously a brilliant pick for them and already improved them it has been a kind run of league games for him to start with (obviously smart of Levy to look ahead and see that when sacking Nuno).

5 of his first 6 league games have been at home v Leeds, Norwich, Brentford, Liverpool and Palace so I'd like to see if they can go to likes of Burnley and Leicester and dig out wins. Southampton away if it goes ahead will be interesting given they've just turned over West Ham.

Spurs in second half of season will have to go to both Manchester clubs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Leicester who will surely have improved a bit so very tricky schedule if they have to keep on winning.

West Ham won't be in contention at all, will likely struggle to finish top 6 and probably europa is better chance for them to get CL.

Think it will come down to Man. United and Arsenal for 4th. You'd favour Man. United due to squad size but Arsenal have a light schedule with no europe and unlike Spurs they've already got all their difficult aways done bar Chelsea so easier fixture list and they've been very solid v bottom half teams home and away so far.

I'll be bold and say Arsenal will get 4th.
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Was just about to make this point as well. Spurs have all of last seasons top 5 to play away from home in the 2nd half of the season, Arsenal have them all to play at home bar Chelsea. Wonder if that will make any difference to results vs the top teams.
 
FootballHQ said:
Spurs are doing well....but do they ever play away anymore?!

I do think while Conte is obviously a brilliant pick for them and already improved them it has been a kind run of league games for him to start with (obviously smart of Levy to look ahead and see that when sacking Nuno).

5 of his first 6 league games have been at home v Leeds, Norwich, Brentford, Liverpool and Palace so I'd like to see if they can go to likes of Burnley and Leicester and dig out wins. Southampton away if it goes ahead will be interesting given they've just turned over West Ham.

Spurs in second half of season will have to go to both Manchester clubs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Leicester who will surely have improved a bit so very tricky schedule if they have to keep on winning.

West Ham won't be in contention at all, will likely struggle to finish top 6 and probably europa is better chance for them to get CL.

Think it will come down to Man. United and Arsenal for 4th. You'd favour Man. United due to squad size but Arsenal have a light schedule with no europe and unlike Spurs they've already got all their difficult aways done bar Chelsea so easier fixture list and they've been very solid v bottom half teams home and away so far.

I'll be bold and say Arsenal will get 4th.
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The only thing that works in Spurs favour is conte has a decent record against top 4 opponents in comparison to arteta. Also, getting knocked out of the conference cup could be the best thing that happened to them. Conte loves no European football as his records with chelsea and inter suggests.
 
I don't fully understand people who just say this is just current form for Arsenal.

This is the table from this season after the first 3 games: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/pre...le/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2021&min=4&max=19

Arsenal are 2nd for the past 16 games. (Probably 3rd after everyone plays fixtures). I know this doesn't mean a whole lot, but considering for the first 3 games of this season we had 9 injuries/covid cases whilst most the rest of the league was fit, and we played a full strength Chelsea and City in this time, i'd say it does mean something. Also barely any of our new signings played in those 3 games, and they've made a huge impact.

2nd point is, in the past 12 months, we are 2nd to City in terms of league points (this was yesterday not sure if it's changed or not). To me that isn't form. One whole year, which equates to 43 straight league games, and we're 2nd in the table. At what point does that turn from form, to being just the actual state of play?

Now i'll admit that yes this is part cherry picking, and the last step is to see it over a full 38 game season, which maybe is this season, but to anyone who says this has come from nowhere from Arsenal and they'll revert to type, what exactly is that type? To me it's very even between United, Spurs and Arsenal for 4th spot. United have the best squad, but have no real identity at the moment and are quickly running out of time to gain it. Spurs and Arsenal seem to have a set team now which is plugging through games and collecting points. If United manage to find their best XI in the next 2-3 games, then i'd say they have it to maintain that the rest of the season.

Also just a point that people make on Arteta not being able to beat big sides. People seem to forget when he first joined, it was the opposite. He could beat big sides, but struggled against smaller ones. Granted this is when we played 5atb mostly to help with that, but I don't think we'll suddenly turn into a side who can beat every team within 2 years. It will take much longer, especially needing the younger players to get more experience for those situations.
 
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Nish115 said:
I don't fully understand people who just say this is just current form for Arsenal.

This is the table from this season after the first 3 games: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/pre...le/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2021&min=4&max=19

Arsenal are 2nd for the past 16 games. (Probably 3rd after everyone plays fixtures). I know this doesn't mean a whole lot, but considering for the first 3 games of this season we had 9 injuries/covid cases whilst most the rest of the league was fit, and we played a full strength Chelsea and City in this time, i'd say it does mean something. Also barely any of our new signings played in those 3 games, and they've made a huge impact.

2nd point is, in the past 12 months, we are 2nd to City in terms of league points (this was yesterday not sure if it's changed or not). To me that isn't form. One whole year, which equates to 43 straight league games, and we're 2nd in the table. At what point does that turn from form, to being just the actual state of play?

Now i'll admit that yes this is part cherry picking, and the last step is to see it over a full 38 game season, which maybe is this season, but to anyone who says this has come from nowhere from Arsenal and they'll revert to type, what exactly is that type? To me it's very even between United, Spurs and Arsenal for 4th spot. United have the best squad, but have no real identity at the moment and are quickly running out of time to gain it. Spurs and Arsenal seem to have a set team now which is plugging through games and collecting points. If United manage to find their best XI in the next 2-3 games, then i'd say they have it to maintain that the rest of the season.

Also just a point that people make on Arteta not being able to beat big sides. People seem to forget when he first joined, it was the opposite. He could beat big sides, but struggled against smaller ones. Granted this is when we played 5atb mostly to help with that, but I don't think we'll suddenly turn into a side who can beat every team within 2 years. It will take much longer, especially needing the younger players to get more experience for those situations.
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Think it's right people are sceptical, it's ok talking about 12 months form etc (I've done it myself) but it is quite Spursy & until you show you can do it over a 38 game season where it really matters, fans will rightly be questioning whether we can perform at the business end of the season.

Might be better to be seen as the outsider as well, tempers expectation that way.
 
GoonerBear said:
Think it's right people are sceptical, it's ok talking about 12 months form etc (I've done it myself) but it is quite Spursy & until you show you can do it over a 38 game season where it really matters, fans will rightly be questioning whether we can perform at the business end of the season.

Might be better to be seen as the outsider as well, tempers expectation that way.
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Oh I agree, the last step is to see it over a 38 game season, and this is the most important one too.

But some people are making out like this is some 5 game form streak. This isn't 5 games, this is 43 straight games where Arteta has held top 4 'form'. Let's see if he can close it out this season and actually get top 4. If he does, he deserves A LOT of credit, especially considering what 90% of fans (including Arsenal), have said about him. The worst thing about us over those 43 games is we didn't create enough chances or score enough goals, so i'm now interested on if we keep that up.

The most exciting thing is that the vast majority of our squad will only improve and become more consistent. We need a few more signings to add to the current crop, but I like the direction we're headed.
 
Yea, we're not making it. Straight fight between spurs and arsenal.
 
Top four for us a pipe dream on the performance at Newcastle who have been battered by City and Scousers. Writing on the wall at Norwich. Clueless performance there and at Newcastle.
 
Utd are so far behind. I just find their squad poor, they need a winner tonight ideally and a winning run to stand a chance. But i think spurs and arsenal are better
 
That result killed it.

The league was gone in October and top 4 is gone in December, with these signings. Absolutely mind-boggling.
 
ZolaWasMagic said:
Utd are so far behind. I just find their squad poor, they need a winner tonight ideally and a winning run to stand a chance. But i think spurs and arsenal are better
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And that's our problem, we're simply incapable of going on a winning run. No chance we're getting top 4. This season is pretty much over, we m
 
Yep no chance for Man. United based on performances v Norwich and Newcastle.

Fixture list up to March should keep them in the mix though.
 
ZolaWasMagic said:
Utd are so far behind. I just find their squad poor, they need a winner tonight ideally and a winning run to stand a chance. But i think spurs and arsenal are better
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I mean our squad is easily ahead of Arsenal and Spurs on paper, but yeah we look dreadful.
 
Forget it. This team looks miles away from Arsenal and Spurs even without their points advantage.
 
ZolaWasMagic said:
Utd are so far behind. I just find their squad poor, they need a winner tonight ideally and a winning run to stand a chance. But i think spurs and arsenal are better
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Absolutely no chance that Arsenal/Spurs have more quality that United.

The problem has been the lack of coaching for the last 3 years.

We should have gotten in Conte to whip these players into shape, but quality wise? We have far more than Arsenal and Spurs.
 
Absolute dross tonight which seems to be the norm. This is going to be a long fix. Too many passengers,weak mentality,lack of basic ability in essence, stealing a living. No chance in hell we finish top 4.
 
Maluco said:
Absolutely no chance that Arsenal/Spurs have more quality that United.

The problem has been the lack of coaching for the last 3 years.

We should have gotten in Conte to whip these players into shape, but quality wise? We have far more than Arsenal and Spurs.
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thats what i mean, right now, i think they look better and are playing better stuff. Better coached, why Utd didnt get Conte is baffling. And i refuse to believe G Nev would have preferred Ralf over Conte, either, after his comments about Conte not fitting Utd
 
We’re getting nowhere near top 4 based on the utter shite we produce on a weekly basis and if we’re not careful we could find ourselves playing in the dreaded conference league which would be nothing short of a complete embarrassment.
 
I don’t have any confidence we will beat Burnley. That says it all really. This season is an expensive write off.
 
Not a hope in hell we finish top 4, the regression from last season is absolutely alarming and we're more likely to finish bottom 4 than top 4 at this rate
 
WAAAY too early to say but I'm starting to become less optimistic about a top 4 finish :(
 
ZolaWasMagic said:
thats what i mean, right now, i think they look better and are playing better stuff. Better coached, why Utd didnt get Conte is baffling. And i refuse to believe G Nev would have preferred Ralf over Conte, either, after his comments about Conte not fitting Utd
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He wouldn’t have, no. It’s all big ideas and projects at United. The big teams go after the best coaches and that’s that.
 
Probably another season in the Europa league to look forward to. It's inexcusable for a club that has invested so much money. But there's a lot of people associated with this club that deserve it for tolerating such low standards for so long.
 
Troubling performance, we struggle to create. Been evident for every half except first vs Palace. Gonna come down to last few matches versus big teams. Conte Spurs are biggest threat despite their tough fixture list. Arsenal, I expect to regress to mean soon enough. Arteta is on a run of games we ourselves have had under Ole, ultimately it's going to end one way. We just have to pick up points in next 3 and get back into the mix.

Also, how did so many Arsenal fans spawn on here in space of few weeks? It's actually pathetic how active opposition fans get when their team get on a good run :lol:
 
Arsenal are beating the dross in the league and that’s a valuable skill to have. United could learn a thing or two.
It’s bad football and bad results and I trust a fresh set of eyes on the squad will confirm what we all know already, that many are just not up to it. True, they’ll put a run together at some point but they aren’t going to take us where we want to be. 4th would only kid the board that nothing major is required. Make no mistake, a major overhaul is needed.
 
Kush said:
Troubling performance, we struggle to create. Been evident for every half except first vs Palace. Gonna come down to last few matches versus big teams. Conte Spurs are biggest threat despite their tough fixture list. Arsenal, I expect to regress to mean soon enough. Arteta is on a run of games we ourselves have had under Ole, ultimately it's going to end one way. We just have to pick up points in next 3 and get back into the mix.

Also, how did so many Arsenal fans spawn on here in space of few weeks? It's actually pathetic how active opposition fans get when their team get on a good run :lol:
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Playing Bruno in this QB role is a waste. It’s only down to McTominay and Fred’s lack of passing ability.We need a Carrick type player to get the ball to our better players. McGuire has more of the ball than anyone and, to be fair, his passing is ok, but the balance of the side is all over the place.

Get a proper CM to hold, rather than having to play two there. Get Bruno free and in the box more often. Get a proper CF (Ronnie is not the future) and play Sancho and Greenwood wide.

The FBs should be Shaw and AWB. Telles is a dog - Dalot is ok.
 
The McFred combo just waved at players going through the midfield. If Man Utd does not address this in the January window, the second half of the season will be harsh for their fans. Still plenty of season left.
 
Arsenal are looking favourites for 4th. Having lost their first 3 games they are playing with confidence and have momentum, although City next up will be a real test.

Realistically I think we are vying for 5th with Spurs
 
Yeah my confidence in top four is all but gone now. This team is a shambles. Arsenals forward players are in form and Spurs have gone from having running stats of the 20th in the league to 1st. Contes impact can’t be understated. Luckily West Ham are falling away so we should avoid Conference league. I don’t think we could live with the shame of being in that comp.
 
Rested team, nobody's injured, morale supposedly high after appointing new man and christmas without a fixtures while still easier games ahead. Perfect conditions to start something related to a winning run ? Nope, not even close enough to beat current state Newcastle.

Simeone will eat this team alive and it's infant naivety combined with dead beat commitment... not to mention March and another slaughter of fixtures.

At this present time nothing to root for. Try teach them passing in straight line and you're f*ckin United legend in this incoherent pisser of a football club.
 
It’s a blessing that Arsenal will not play today against Wolves.
For multiples reasons.
First no chance Arsenal would have got something against this Wolves side we struggle against for years now. And playing less than 48h after Norwich against a team with less fatigue would have been impossible mission. Wolves are really defensive (you saw against Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea. You need luck and courage to score against them).
Secondly it give Arsenal more time to prepare the City game (and City will have one more game in their legs).
Ultimately, the next game for Wolves is against Man Utd. If Manchester fails to win (wich is likely), I think we will remember this week as pivotal in race for 4th place. Even more if Arsenal wins his game in hand.
 
ESR10 said:
It’s a blessing that Arsenal will not play today against Wolves.
For multiples reasons.
First no chance Arsenal would have got something against this Wolves side we struggle against for years now. And playing less than 48h after Norwich against a team with less fatigue would have been impossible mission. Wolves are really defensive (you saw against Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea. You need luck and courage to score against them).
Secondly it give Arsenal more time to prepare the City game (and City will have one more game in their legs).
Ultimately, the next game for Wolves is against Man Utd. If Manchester fails to win (wich is likely), I think we will remember this week as pivotal in race for 4th place. Even more if Arsenal wins his game in hand.
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Think the exact opposite is true. Wolves are pretty woeful and can't score. You lot are in good form and would have drilled them, banked another 3 points and put pressure on the below teams.

Instead, you play City next, will lose that and have a chance that derails the momentum.
 
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